The KJVO Myth - Phony As A Ford Corvette !
- Thread starter robycop3
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Reminds me of an event ! Had a Korean physician neighbor, a new Christian, who used schoolboy English, & was still learning it. He asked me to borrow a Bible til his Korean-language version arrived, & without thinking, I handed him a KJV.
Nest eve, he came by, a little upset. He'd come across "Suffer little children" & thought maybe Jesus tortured kids ot something, till I explained the now-archaic meaning of "suffer" as "allow". And, I gave him a copy of the NKJV to use.
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Bruce Leiter
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My memory from my seminary study of the manuscripts and versions is that the only NT manuscripts the King James translators had available were from the 10th century, whereas four separate major NT manuscripts from the 3rd and 4th centuries have been discovered since that time. When the newer translations (not the paraphrases) have had full Greek manuscripts 6 to 7 centuries closer to the original manuscript, they are bound to be a little more accurate, which they are when compared with each other.
The KJV is a good translation, but versions like the NIV and the ESV are better because of the fact that I have mentioned. Another factor for the present is that the English language has changed a lot since King James times. As a result, it has the disadvantage of a language barrier for new and younger Christians. What's more, the KJV, because of the manuscripts they had for translation, includes Mark 16:9-20 and John 8:1-11, neither of which was probably in the original because they aren't in the older manuscripts. Therefore, the NIV puts those verses in italics. It is amazing that God preserved his Word that well through those centuries, but human fallibility allowed some variance.
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JSRG
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It is possible that Pascha referred to Easter (as in, a celebration of the Resurrection) back then... some later writers, like Irenaeus and Eusebius, assert that the celebration goes back to the apostles, though of course going back to the apostolic age doesn't necessarily mean it went back as far as Acts 12:4. The real problem is that even if Pascha could mean Easter back then, it certainly doesn't in this context, as Herod would have no reason whatsoever to wait until the end of a Christian celebration to bring them out.
There is very much support for translations, as the New Testament uses translated verses from the Old Testament.
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Silly Uncle Wayne
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Thou false believer! Hast though not read in the book of Hezekiah that the writings of the King known as James shall be sacred and unchanged for thousands of years!
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I realize that the KJV is not perfect... However it is the best English translation. Classes in Greek or Hebrew would help perfect a biblical understanding, the Strongs Exhaustive Concordance is the next best thing.
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i appreciate the king James largely for this treason. Strongs. I read a variety and compare however the original language is helpful.
For G1063 the invisible things G517 of him G846 from G575 the creation G2937 of the world G2889 are clearly seen, G2529 being understood G3539 by the things that are made, G4161 even G5037 his G846 eternal G126 power G1411 and G2532 Godhead; G2305 so G1519 that they G846 are G1511 without excuse: G379
Take the word understood:
STRONGS NT 3539: νοέω
νοέω, νόω; 1 aorist ἐνόησα; (present passive participle (neuter plural) νωυμενα); (νοῦς); from Homer down; the Sept. for הַבִין and הִתְבּונֵן, and for הִשְׂכִּיל;
1. to perceive with the mind, to understand: absolutely, with the addition τῇ καρδία, John 12:40 (Isaiah 44:18); with an accusative of the thing, Ephesians 3:4, 20; 1 Timothy 1:7; passive: Romans 1:20; followed by ὅτι, Matthew 15:17; Matthew 16:11; Mark 7:18; followed by an accusative with an infinitive, Hebrews 11:3; the absolute equivalent to to have understanding: Matthew 16:9; Mark 8:17.
2. to think upon, heed, ponder, consider: ὀείτω, namely, let him attend to the events that occur, which will show the time to flee, Matthew 24:15; Mark 13:14; (similarly νόει ὁ (R G ἅ) λέγω, 2 Timothy 2:7). (Compare: εὐνοέω, κατανοέω, μετανοέω, προνοέω, ὑπονοέω.)
So I'm not a KJV only strickly, I do find it useful for this reason however and make no apologies for my preference. Should another Publisher print a version and attach the strongs I would happily use it. Not some commentary, or someones interpretation.
In Christ
For G1063 the invisible things G517 of him G846 from G575 the creation G2937 of the world G2889 are clearly seen, G2529 being understood G3539 by the things that are made, G4161 even G5037 his G846 eternal G126 power G1411 and G2532 Godhead; G2305 so G1519 that they G846 are G1511 without excuse: G379
Take the word understood:
STRONGS NT 3539: νοέω
νοέω, νόω; 1 aorist ἐνόησα; (present passive participle (neuter plural) νωυμενα); (νοῦς); from Homer down; the Sept. for הַבִין and הִתְבּונֵן, and for הִשְׂכִּיל;
1. to perceive with the mind, to understand: absolutely, with the addition τῇ καρδία, John 12:40 (Isaiah 44:18); with an accusative of the thing, Ephesians 3:4, 20; 1 Timothy 1:7; passive: Romans 1:20; followed by ὅτι, Matthew 15:17; Matthew 16:11; Mark 7:18; followed by an accusative with an infinitive, Hebrews 11:3; the absolute equivalent to to have understanding: Matthew 16:9; Mark 8:17.
2. to think upon, heed, ponder, consider: ὀείτω, namely, let him attend to the events that occur, which will show the time to flee, Matthew 24:15; Mark 13:14; (similarly νόει ὁ (R G ἅ) λέγω, 2 Timothy 2:7). (Compare: εὐνοέω, κατανοέω, μετανοέω, προνοέω, ὑπονοέω.)
So I'm not a KJV only strickly, I do find it useful for this reason however and make no apologies for my preference. Should another Publisher print a version and attach the strongs I would happily use it. Not some commentary, or someones interpretation.
In Christ
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Carl Emerson
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This is just nonsensical. Strongs applies to the Greek and Hebrew. You can use it with any translation.
Blue Letter Bible gives you more than a dozen options online, including:
KJV: G3539 - noeō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)
NASB: G3539 - noeō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (NASB)
Of course, you need some knowledge of Greek if you want to interpret Strong's correctly.
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Well, I don't see how the numbering scheme and the concordance can have a bias.
The lexicon that comes with it might have incorrect definitions, though. I would certainly encourage people to use more than one lexicon, for tricky words.
A more serious a problem is that when people with no knowledge of Greek use Strong's they often misinterpret it. If you don't know any Greek, a better approach is often just to look at several different translations.
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You can always check it against Young's.
The whole process is loaded with bias. The Nestle Text is biased. The English translation is biased. The Concordances are biased. The Commentaries are biased. The Denominations are biased. The individual churches are biased. The preachers are biased. And we are biased. If you don't agree with me -- you are biased. I'm the only one who isn't biased. - lol
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Silly Uncle Wayne
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Just out of interest I seem to remember that 'Jacob' was changed to 'James' in the New Testament in deference to King James (hence the Jacobites).
Anyone know if this is an urban myth or actually true. Cheers.
Anyone know if this is an urban myth or actually true. Cheers.
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"Jacob," as the name of New Testament figures, had already changed to "James" over time, transforming slowly from "Jacobus" to "Jacomus" to "Jomus" to "James." Elsewhere in Europe it changed to "Diego."
The 1599 Geneva Bible already printed "James" instead of "Jacob" for all the New Testament Jameses. So nothing to do with King James.
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The KJV is an artefact of high English prose, but doctrinally is skewed towards the flesh. The translation of as many options as available to mean 'hell' should twig you.
And check out this clanger:
Rev 21:24a per KJV: And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it.
Who snuck that in? Well, the rat forgot to make the corresponding change to the prophecy:
Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest. (Rev 15:4)
'Somebody' is in big trouble (King Jimbo, the buck stops with you, you crypto-masonic anti-Christ rodent):
For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; (Rev 22:18)
God doesn't do things by halves. World + Jesus = All saved.
And check out this clanger:
Rev 21:24a per KJV: And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it.
Who snuck that in? Well, the rat forgot to make the corresponding change to the prophecy:
Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest. (Rev 15:4)
'Somebody' is in big trouble (King Jimbo, the buck stops with you, you crypto-masonic anti-Christ rodent):
For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; (Rev 22:18)
God doesn't do things by halves. World + Jesus = All saved.
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Carl Emerson
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Isn't God good that He doesn't judge is for all our biased nonsense mostly flowing out of insecurity.
The tragic part is folks have been executed as the game has been played...
My favourite hymn is "you in your small corner and I in mine..."
It boils down to loving Jesus personally and loving others.
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