This is real simple. Clearly, the little season meant in Revelation 6:11 occurs during this same short time made mention of in Revelation 12:12. If this same little season meant in Revelation 6:11 is meaning this same little season meant in Revelation 20, this indicates that there has to be a thousand year period preceding it. So where in all of Revelation 12 do you propose a thousand years fit?
I have asked this question numerous times of numerous Amils, and have yet to see one single Amil show where the thousand years logically fit in Revelation 12. If it can't logically fit before this war in heaven, and that it can't logically fit during the short time mentioned in Revelation 12:12, because that short time includes the little season mentioned in Revelation 6:11, where else in Revelation 12 do you propose it fits? Does not Revelation 12 cover at least the past 2000 years, the same 2000 years many of you are claiming satan is in the pit? Once again, where do you propose this thousand years logically fits in Revelation 12?
As for me, I can tell you exactly where it logically fits in Revelation 12. It fits after the events recorded in Revelation 12:17 are entirely fulfilled. IOW, this indicates satan is initially bound after the fulfillment of Revelation 12:17, and not already bound before this is fulfilled.
I think one of the biggest obstacles I'm personally encountering, I'm getting the impression that some of you are not fully grasping what I'm actually arguing. That makes these discussions that much more difficult when one side is not fully grasping what the other side is actually arguing.
To even begin to prove your version of Amil, you first have to show how the little season in Revelation 6:11, and the little season in Revelation 20, that these are one and the same. Totally impossible for you or anyone to do when Revelation 20:4 is already telling us that the little season in Revelation 6:11 is already fulfilled before satan is loosed from the pit, and that this same little season happens during satan's short time of wrath according to Revelation 12 and other Scriptures as well. And guess what follows satan's short time in Revelation 12? The 2nd coming, that is what. And at this point satan hasn't even been bound yet according to Revelation 12.
In the OP you list 17 reasons why the Premil doctrine should be rejected. Some of those reasons might be good reasons, so I'm not claiming none of your reasons are reason enough to reject Premil. Yet at the same time, as to my post here, I have submitted in return, several reasons why Amil should be rejected as well. Until Amils first deal with my arguments and show where my arguments took a wrong turn, then show the correct way to understand some of these things, until then my reasons for rejecting Amil are just as valid as you feel your reasons for rejecting Premil are.
A good start for Amils would be this. Simply show in the text in Revelation 12 where you feel the thousand years logically fit, where they begin and where they end, then explain why you feel it logically fits where you are proposing. Once again, keeping in mind that Revelation 12 covers at least the past 2000 years, the same 2000 years Amils claim satan is in the pit. Obviously then, if Amils are correct here, they should be able to easily point out in Revelation 12 the beginning and the end of this thousand years.
The different parallels in Revelation show different aspects or camera views of the same game, a game where Jesus conquers Satan and his kingdom at every turn. Revelation is therefore a victorious book for the believer to read, contrary to how Premil interprets it. Premil is always lauding the power and influence of Satan during this intra-Advent period. Amil is always exalting the power, authority, influence and dominion of Christ and the Church as it brings the good news of Christ to the nations.
So, we have to step back from the narrative and trace the fate of the whole demonic kingdom and find out how any of them arrived there. We need to look for clues. Remember, we cannot divide up the fate of the kingdom of darkness any more than we can the kingdom of God. They are a harmonious entity. They are collectively represented by their head, just like the kingdom of God is by its head.
Revelation is just like every other book in the Bible speaking about two kingdoms that are in constant spiritual conflict with each other. The apostle is giving insight into different aspects of the invisible and visible warfare going on in this current age. When the kingdom of darkness is described they are shown to be currently spiritually restrained and curtailed in regard to their power and influence. The kingdom of God on the other hand is depicted as a triumphant kingdom that is ruling over a defeated demonic realm and the Church is shows to be a militant army bringing life and hope to an ignorant world. Revelation is a victorious book showing the power and influence of Christ, His angels and His people over every aspect of the demonic realm.
John was simply shown a number of parallel visions - one after the other, all culminating in the climactic Coming of Christ - from different camera angles. Each parallel concentrates on the same time period and the symbolic ongoing events that occur throughout, viewing them from slightly different camera angles. Sometimes God is speaking primarily of the elect, sometimes He is majoring on the wicked. Sometimes He is describing the evil of the invisible demonic angelic realm the exploits of the invisible angelic realm of God. Sometimes He is describing the righteous in heaven, sometimes the righteous on earth. Sometimes it is the humans that reside within the kingdom of darkness, sometimes it is the invisible demonic host that reside there. Sometimes He is focusing in on the fate of demons (Rev 9), sometimes the beast and false prophet (Rev 13 and Rev 17-19), and sometimes Satan (Rev 12 & Rev 20). That does not assume the absence of the rest in the picture. No! It just reveals different camera views of the same overall war, only concentrating on different aspects.
Although coming from divergent angles, the parallels are carefully interwoven like a linen cloth. Often to establish the meaning and format of the book, we have to meticulously and patiently fit the jig-saw pieces together in order to see the unfolding picture. That is not to say we have a full revelation of this peculiar book, but we can have an insight into this inspired book.
Revelation 12
Revelation 12 sheds some lights on these queries. It helps us understand the transition of God’s people from the Old to the New. We, notably, see a figurative woman in this chapter who exists before Christ’s birth and who continues to thrive after His ascension. She is symbolically represented in Revelation 12:1 as
“a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars.” This passage depicts this woman bringing our Savior into this world. She is described in Revelation 12:5 as birthing
“a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.”
W
ho is the “man child” who “was to rule all nations with a rod of iron,” and “was caught up unto God, and to his throne”? This is Israel’s Messiah Jesus Christ. He is the promised seed. He is the offspring of the woman. He is the Holy One of Israel. He is the ultimate expression of true Israel. The woman therefore must be an Israeli woman. But not an apostate woman, who was previously rejected of God in the Old Testament, but a faithful woman. This woman has to refer to faithful Israel. Anyway, God’s true people are often described in Scripture as a woman. The 12 stars on her crown either represent divine authority or are symbolic of the 12 tribes of Israel. It was from this Israeli woman that Christ was produced.
The detail before us powerfully shows us the continuity and continuation of faithful Israel after the earthly life, death and resurrection of our Lord. Revelation 12:17 confirms that the woman represents those that accept Christ (the Messiah) as Savior and Lord. Despite Satan persecuting the woman (Revelation 12:15-16), those who survive of the woman’s seed are all those that expressly
“keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” Christ (Israel’s Messiah) is the common bond that joins the household of faith in the Old with the New. Apostate Judaism can never fit this description, with its hostility to Jesus. They therefore have no part in this figurative woman. We are clearly looking at God’s true covenant people – the elect throughout time. This was God’s preserved remnant within national Israel in the Old Testament and are the redeemed Church from throughout the nations in this New Testament era.
After Christ ascended up into heaven, and after Satan was banished from heaven, through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus, this elect people, that are represented by this chosen woman, are described as those that
“overcame him [the devil] by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death” (Revelation 12:11). This woman clearly transcends both covenants. She was manifestly before the incarnation (as she brought forth Christ), but she is also alive and active after the cross (as she is seen advancing the Gospel of Christ). This shows us that the New Testament is the continuation of faithful Israel.
True Israel did not therefore go away. It recognized Israel’s Messiah and embraced Him as Lord. That spiritual company coalesced around John the Baptist. The prophet was called to be the forerunner of Christ. He introduced Him to Israel. His direct preaching separated that which was counterfeit from that which was real. He caused a dividing of the people by only baptizing those Israelis who were willing to “bring forth … fruits meet for repentance.” (Matthew 3:8).
Revelation 12:5-11 places the defeat of Satan at the resurrection/ascension:
"And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."
This takes us into the great commission that started to spread through all nations after Satan's casting down. This corresponds with Revelation 20 where Satan is bound after the first resurrection.
Previous to Satan's eviction, God was Israel's God, not the Gentiles God. Satan ruled the nations. But
through this casting out of Satan, after man's penalty had been paid in full, he no longer had anything to accuse the elect over. It was indeed finished! The powerful spread of the Gospel to the Gentiles lifting the deception that kept them bound. Satan was now bound. The boot was on the other foot. With the global expanse of the great commission the Gentiles now are without excuse. The ignorance is gone. The veil is lifted. The means by which God lifts deception is the preaching of the Word of God. This has now been successfully ongoing throughout the nations for 2000 years.
Satan's defeat came after the resurrection. Here is when he got his eviction notice, and here is "when" salvation came to the "whole world" - not just one nation Israel. The deception enveloping the Gentiles was lifted - praise God. They are now without excuse, just like those in the OT that rejected salvation. Salvation has now come to the nations. But Satan had to first be cast down. He had to be defeated. Christ’s life, death and resurrection safely secured that. As a result the Church becomes a militant overcoming organism.
Christ predicted shortly before He destroyed the power of Satan at the cross, in John 12:30-33:
“Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die.”
Christ’s death, burial and resurrection was the decisive blow against Satan. His defeat has already been wrought. This passage plainly shows the powerful result of Calvary and the deep impact it had upon Satan. It shows us that Satan is now under Christ’s feet and is now subject to His Sovereign will. Satan and his minions are barred from heaven. They have been banished after they were defeated 2,000 years ago.
Before being cast out of heaven through Christ’s victorious assault on his kingdom the devil had access to both heaven and earth. He had the ability to come before God to accuse the brethren of their sins. When he was cast down he no longer had access to heaven but only to earth.
