LDS Brigham Young and His Blood Atonement

Jamesone5

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I can explain our concept of God quite clearly.

You apparently cannot explain the Trinity and default to the "mystery of godliness" as your excuse.

I did not say that--the
Bible says very clearly--"the mystery of godliness"

Do you not agree with the Bible?
 
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Rescued One

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Blood atonement was taught in the old testament:
(Old Testament | Exodus 21:23 - 25)

23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.

(Old Testament | Deuteronomy 22:22 - 24)

22 ¶ If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.
23 ¶ If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;
24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.

Punishing the wicked doesn't bring atonement to the sinner.
 
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Rescued One

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I can explain our concept of God quite clearly.

You apparently cannot explain the Trinity and default to the "mystery of godliness" as your excuse.

Your god isn't god.
 
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He is the way

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How well we know the power of Mormonism has a grip on most of its members. Thankfully, God is powerful enough to being many out and give them to Christ.
We already have the true Jesus Christ of the Bible. We don't need any other Christ.
 
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Peter1000

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I do not have to read the BoM. I already concluded long ago that it was written by a false prophet as the Holy Spirit proved it to me abundantly.

Still why would we need a second witness? We do not pay enough attention the Bible?

Do you not agree with the Bible?
2 Corinthians 13 King James Version (KJV)
13 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

The BOM is a much more powerful witness than the second and third time that Paul met with the Corinthians. Paul was the same man all 3 times speaking the same message for sure and it was a true 2nd and 3rd witness to these people.

But what do you think these people in Corinth would have said if Paul had brought to them a person from the Americas, over 10,000 miles away, and this American told them that Jesus had visited them and showed them the wounds in his hands and his feet and his side. That Jesus had taught them the same gospel that Paul had taught them.

Think past your disgust for JS just for a moment, and think about the sensation that would have caused among the Corinthians. It would have been a far more powerful witness than a

It is because of this second witness that Muslims and Asians etc., are coming into the church, because they have known the Bible for centuries, but here is a book that was written the same time that Christ lived, and testifies that he lives just like Peter et al.

A second witness is valuable to Jesus Christ to establish his word.
 
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Peter1000

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I do not have to read the BoM. I already concluded long ago that it was written by a false prophet as the Holy Spirit proved it to me abundantly.

Still why would we need a second witness? We do not pay enough attention the Bible?

Do you not agree with the Bible?
So are you really telling me that you have never read the BOM from 1 page to last?

How many years did you say you were a Mormon?
 
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Peter1000

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Mormonism is like a plague.:sick:


Isaiah 53

10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

God opened my eyes.

If we believe these same scriptures and would use them to convince people of the prophecies of Jesus, how are we a plague, and you are not?
 
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Jamesone5

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So are you really telling me that you have never read the BOM from 1 page to last?

How many years did you say you were a Mormon?
Did I say that or did you once again assume?

40 years as a Mormon and probably read the BoM through 3 times.

But what I learned all left once God led me out via the True Holy Spirit. Garbage in--garbage out.

But here is the way God works. As a child, I was urged to go to a Vacation Bible School by my non-Mormon grandmother. where a tiny seed was planted. When my son died and shortly before I left the LDS Church, I remembered the words of Psalm 23 that I had learned as a child. I found afterwards that God's True word [the Bible] comforted me while the BoM and the other works of your church did not.

A small part of my testimony as it were.
 
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Jamesone5

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2 Corinthians 13 King James Version (KJV)
13 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

The BOM is a much more powerful witness than the second and third time that Paul met with the Corinthians. Paul was the same man all 3 times speaking the same message for sure and it was a true 2nd and 3rd witness to these people.

But what do you think these people in Corinth would have said if Paul had brought to them a person from the Americas, over 10,000 miles away, and this American told them that Jesus had visited them and showed them the wounds in his hands and his feet and his side. That Jesus had taught them the same gospel that Paul had taught them.

Think past your disgust for JS just for a moment, and think about the sensation that would have caused among the Corinthians. It would have been a far more powerful witness than a

It is because of this second witness that Muslims and Asians etc., are coming into the church, because they have known the Bible for centuries, but here is a book that was written the same time that Christ lived, and testifies that he lives just like Peter et al.

A second witness is valuable to Jesus Christ to establish his word.

Seems you are trying to tell God "He should have" as to how it would be a more powerful witness by supposedly adding your BoM. Maybe you can discuss that with Christ in the End.


And yet you cannot "get Christ" by His one and only witness in the Bible.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.


No, we do not assume that ALL Scripture included the BoM.

And truth from 2 or 3 witnesses is good versus falsehoods from 2 or 3. think on that a bit. To me it means nothing.

There were actually 500 people who saw the Resurrected Christ ----that is not enough?

Muslims and Asians are joining the Christian Faith in even larger numbers--- I donate to the Voice of the Martyrs organization and get their magazine. You even heard of the persecuted Church in China?

There are some places Mormon missionaries will not go into and cannot go. I found that out first-hand on a Mission Trip with members of my Christian Church to Peru. In one of their larger cities I met a couple of Mormon missionaries and one was from Idaho. He thought it was great that I could speak English until I told him eventually why I left your Church. He then, actually chanted his testimony as if I was some evil witchdoctor and was actually shaking. I felt sorry for the young kid and did my best to comfort him. And no, I never went on a 2 year Mission myself as a Mormon.
 
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Peter1000

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Did I say that or did you once again assume?

40 years as a Mormon and probably read the BoM through 3 times.

But what I learned all left once God led me out via the True Holy Spirit. Garbage in--garbage out.

But here is the way God works. As a child, I was urged to go to a Vacation Bible School by my non-Mormon grandmother. where a tiny seed was planted. When my son died and shortly before I left the LDS Church, I remembered the words of Psalm 23 that I had learned as a child. I found afterwards that God's True word [the Bible] comforted me while the BoM and the other works of your church did not.

A small part of my testimony as it were.
I can appreciate that, especially Psalm 23. But did you not realize that the OT and the NT are part of our scriptures, along with the BoM and others? Did it not dawn on you that many members of the church take comfort from reading Psalm 23? I love to read and sing it.

How could you call hundreds of passages in the BOM about Jesus and his Godhood and his wonderful life and sacrifice and his visit to the Americas after his resurrection, garbage in and garbage out? How can you do that?
 
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Jamesone5

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I can appreciate that, especially Psalm 23. But did you not realize that the OT and the NT are part of our scriptures, along with the BoM and others? Did it not dawn on you that many members of the church take comfort from reading Psalm 23? I love to read and sing it.

How could you call hundreds of passages in the BOM about Jesus and his Godhood and his wonderful life and sacrifice and his visit to the Americas after his resurrection, garbage in and garbage out? How can you do that?

But did you not realize that the OT and the NT are part of our scriptures, along with the BoM and others?---Peter1000

The BoM is false scripture written by a false prophet----but then the Holy Spirit made me realize that ----instead of what you [and I previously] claimed about it.

You going to argue with the Holy Spirit I now claim?
 
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He is the way

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But did you not realize that the OT and the NT are part of our scriptures, along with the BoM and others?---Peter1000

The BoM is false scripture written by a false prophet----but then the Holy Spirit made me realize that ----instead of what you [and I previously] claimed about it.

You going to argue with the Holy Spirit I now claim?
It is not the Holy Spirit that you listen to. You have already proven that.
 
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Peter1000

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But did you not realize that the OT and the NT are part of our scriptures, along with the BoM and others?---Peter1000

The BoM is false scripture written by a false prophet----but then the Holy Spirit made me realize that ----instead of what you [and I previously] claimed about it.

You going to argue with the Holy Spirit I now claim?
Yes, I will argue with what you think is the Holy Spirit. Because the Holy Spirit told me that the BOM is true, and that the words about Jesus Christ in the BOM were true words. Besides my study show me evidences of its truth each day as an ancient setting in which it took place.
 
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Jamesone5

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Yes, I will argue with what you think is the Holy Spirit. Because the Holy Spirit told me that the BOM is true, and that the words about Jesus Christ in the BOM were true words. Besides my study show me evidences of its truth each day as an ancient setting in which it took place.


Here is the problem with the BoM and the Spirit that told you it was all true or all supposedly true words..
Truth does not come all of a sudden as if we pray for truth and voila it just happens. The Bible take much study to glean out Truth and as the Spirit of Truth [Holy Spirit] that Christ promises in this verse says

John 16:13
However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

Hardly a one time thing and the thought that the Power of the Holy Ghost comes onto a new seeker, as a sampler of sorts, is astounding. Of Course, you then claim you get the gift of the Holy Spirit [Ghost] as the "real deal" way later once you are supposedly baptized and join the Church.

Ther is also so many problems with the Moroni challege to prove that it is not Biblical.
 
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Peter1000

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I did not say that--the
Bible says very clearly--"the mystery of godliness"

Do you not agree with the Bible?
Yes I do. So which scripture do you believe in the bible:

"The mystery of godliness" scripture, which proclaims God is a mystery and implies that we can not know him.

OR

John 17:3 King James Version (KJV)
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Which scripture do you believe the most?
 
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Jamesone5

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Yes I do. So which scripture do you believe in the bible:

"The mystery of godliness" scripture, which proclaims God is a mystery and implies that we can not know him.

OR

John 17:3 King James Version (KJV)
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Which scripture do you believe the most?


I think you are confused


"The mystery of godliness" scripture, which proclaims God is a mystery and implies that we can not know him.---Peter1000

Where does the verse you are refencing say God is a mystery and implies we can not know Him or really what He reveals to us?

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

A non-Believer or one without the Holy Spirit would not understand or have Faith in that mystery, but we Believers do.
 
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Peter1000

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I think you are confused


"The mystery of godliness" scripture, which proclaims God is a mystery and implies that we can not know him.---Peter1000

Where does the verse you are refencing say God is a mystery and implies we can not know Him or really what He reveals to us?

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

A non-Believer or one without the Holy Spirit would not understand or have Faith in that mystery, but we Believers do.
You always forget we are believers, we are not non-believers.

My post 370 says that I can explain God with great detail (paraphrasing), but you cannot explain the Trinity.

Your post 381 says this:
I did not say that--the
Bible says very clearly--"the mystery of godliness"

Do you not agree with the Bible?

So it looks like you have ducked the challenge to explain in great detail the Trinity. You have defaulted to a scripture in the bible that refers to God as "the mystery of godliness" instead.
Like you don't know how to explain the Trinity with any specifics, so I will say that God is a mystery and leave it at that.
Then you add rather arrogantly, Do I believe what the bible says?

My challenge to you is: Give me the scripture in the bible that says "the mystery of godliness", since I could not find it in the NT.

And second are you going to hide behind a "mystery of God" scripture, or are you going to give me detailed analysis of the Trinity?

As I said, it is eternal life to know God and his Son, Jesus Christ. IOW if you do not know God and his Son intimately, you will not have eternal life. He has given us much information in the bible to know Him, so give me the details of the Triune God.
 
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