Heidelberg Question 1

Hammster · May 14, 2020

Q. 1. What is thy only comfort in life and death?

A. That I with body and soul, both in life and death, am not my own, but belong unto my faithful Saviour Jesus Christ; who, with his precious blood, has fully satisfied for all my sins, and delivered me from all the power of the devil; and so preserves me that without the will of my heavenly Father, not a hair can fall from my head; yea, that all things must be subservient to my salvation, and therefore, by his Holy Spirit, He also assures me of eternal life, and makes me sincerely willing and ready, henceforth, to live unto him.

grafted branch · May 28, 2020

Hammster said:
Q. 1. What is thy only comfort in life and death?

A. That I with body and soul, both in life and death, am not my own, but belong unto my faithful Saviour Jesus Christ; who, with his precious blood, has fully satisfied for all my sins, and delivered me from all the power of the devil; and so preserves me that without the will of my heavenly Father, not a hair can fall from my head; yea, that all things must be subservient to my salvation, and therefore, by his Holy Spirit, He also assures me of eternal life, and makes me sincerely willing and ready, henceforth, to live unto him.

I’m in agreement with the Heidelberg answer, which seems to be implying that a believer can never be overcome (overcome <3528> to subdue (lit. or fig.):-conquer, overcome, prevail, get the victory) both in life and death because we belong to Jesus Christ. From our vantage point salvation has an infinite value and seemingly salvation and saint are synonymous.

In Revelation 13:7 the beast that rises up out of the sea is given to make war with the saints and overcome<3528> them.

Based on verses such as Deuteronomy 14:2, the saints can also be considered as national Israel.

I have a question; does the Heidelberg answer preclude Revelation 13:7 from being interpreted as believers being overcome?

K Watt · May 28, 2020

Hammster said:
Q. 1. What is thy only comfort in life and death?

A. That I with body and soul, both in life and death, am not my own, but belong unto my faithful Saviour Jesus Christ; who, with his precious blood, has fully satisfied for all my sins, and delivered me from all the power of the devil; and so preserves me that without the will of my heavenly Father, not a hair can fall from my head; yea, that all things must be subservient to my salvation, and therefore, by his Holy Spirit, He also assures me of eternal life, and makes me sincerely willing and ready, henceforth, to live unto him.

Do you believe that God wants you to sin?

Hammster · May 28, 2020

K Watt said:
Do you believe that God wants you to sin?

Relevance?

Hammster · May 28, 2020

grafted branch said:
I’m in agreement with the Heidelberg answer, which seems to be implying that a believer can never be overcome (overcome <3528> to subdue (lit. or fig.):-conquer, overcome, prevail, get the victory) both in life and death because we belong to Jesus Christ. From our vantage point salvation has an infinite value and seemingly salvation and saint are synonymous.

In Revelation 13:7 the beast that rises up out of the sea is given to make war with the saints and overcome<3528> them.

Based on verses such as Deuteronomy 14:2, the saints can also be considered as national Israel.

I have a question; does the Heidelberg answer preclude Revelation 13:7 from being interpreted as believers being overcome?

I’m not sure I understand your question.

grafted branch · May 28, 2020

Hammster said:
I’m not sure I understand your question.

I posted a thread a while ago on the eschatology board about when the saints are overcome. There are only 2 options for who the saints are, national Israel or true believers.

My question was basically can a true believer ever be overcome?

I think believers can’t be spiritually overcome based on Romans 8:38-39 which declares that nothing is able to separate us from the love of God, which includes principalities, powers, things present, nor things to come.

I think believers can’t be physically overcome based on verses such as 2 Corinthians 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’s sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong. And in the last part of Philippians 1:20 so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life, or by death.

So would the Heidelberg answer to question #1 agree that a believer can’t be overcome? Or do you see something I’m missing and true believers can be overcome?

Hammster · May 28, 2020

grafted branch said:
My question was basically can a true believer ever be overcome?

No.

K Watt · Jun 1, 2020

Hammster said:
Relevance?

Your confession includes this:

without the will of my heavenly Father, not a hair can fall from my head;

Do you believe God wants you to sin?

Hammster · Jun 1, 2020

K Watt said:
Your confession includes this:

without the will of my heavenly Father, not a hair can fall from my head;

Do you believe God wants you to sin?

Of course not.

K Watt · Jun 1, 2020

Hammster said:
Of course not.

Do you ever sin?

Hammster · Jun 1, 2020

K Watt said:
Do you ever sin?

Yes.

K Watt · Jun 1, 2020

Hammster said:
Yes.

So if God doesn't allow a hair to fall without his willing it, and he doesn't want you to sin, how can you sin?

This seems to contradict your original post.

Hammster · Jun 1, 2020

K Watt said:
So if God doesn't allow a hair to fall without his willing it, and he doesn't want you to sin, how can you sin?

This seems to contradict your original post.

God has a purpose for sin. See: the cross; Genesis 50:20.

K Watt · Jun 1, 2020

Hammster said:
God has a purpose for sin. See: the cross; Genesis 50:20.

You are changing subjects.

You said God doesn't want you to sin, but you do.

You said that not a hair falls out of place without God willing it.

Which is it?

Hammster · Jun 1, 2020

K Watt said:
You are changing subjects.

You said God doesn't want you to sin, but you do.

You said that not a hair falls out of place without God willing it.

Which is it?

I haven’t changed the subject.

pescador · Jun 3, 2020

Hammster said:
God has a purpose for sin. See: the cross; Genesis 50:20.

That is so out of context...? In Genesis 50:19-21, " But Joseph [not God] answered them, “Don’t be afraid. Am I in the place of God? As for you [my brothers], you meant to harm me, but God intended it for a good purpose, so he could preserve the lives of many people [ the starving Israelites], as you can see this day. So now, don’t be afraid. I will provide for you and your little children.” Then he [Joseph] consoled them and spoke kindly to them.

There is no mention of the cross or anything like that. Taking something so far out of context is poor exegesis; in this case it's ridiculous.

Hammster · Jun 3, 2020

pescador said:
That is so out of context...? In Genesis 50:19-21, " But Joseph [not God] answered them, “Don’t be afraid. Am I in the place of God? As for you [my brothers], you meant to harm me, but God intended it for a good purpose, so he could preserve the lives of many people [ the starving Israelites], as you can see this day. So now, don’t be afraid. I will provide for you and your little children.” Then he [Joseph] consoled them and spoke kindly to them.

There is no mention of the cross or anything like that. Taking something so far out of context is poor exegesis; in this case it's ridiculous.

I’m not sure of your point. I was giving two examples. I wasn’t saying that Joseph’s statement was implying the cross.

pescador · Jun 4, 2020

Hammster said:
I’m not sure of your point. I was giving two examples. I wasn’t saying that Joseph’s statement was implying the cross.

Then why did you write, "God has a purpose for sin. See: the cross; Genesis 50:20."

Hammster · Jun 4, 2020

pescador said:
Then why did you write, "God has a purpose for sin. See: the cross; Genesis 50:20."

Because He used sinful men to crucify Christ.

pescador · Jun 4, 2020

Hammster said:
Because He used sinful men to crucify Christ.

So you're going from Genesis 50, where there is no mention of the cross, to Jesus' crucifixion? That's some exegetical leap!!

Joseph was clearly talking in context about the behavior of his brothers. Here is what Paul wrote to the believers in Corinth (in context), "I have applied these things to myself and Apollos because of you, brothers and sisters, so that through us you may learn “not to go beyond what is written,” so that none of you will be puffed up in favor of the one against the other. You should apply this teaching to yourself. Stop making things up!

Heidelberg Question 1

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Psalm 144:1

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Psalm 144:1

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