LDS MORMONS: Heavenly Mom Gets Less Respect

What about the LADY ANGELS seen in vision in Zechariah 5?

Is this possibly Heavenly Mom 1 and Heavenly Mom 2 carrying Wickedness in a basket?

If Jesus sits at right hand of Father - does Heavenly Mom sit at left hand?

Tra Phull said:

Father, Son and Holy Spirit are worshipped, according to Nicene Creed.

Mom and/or Moms are cheated out of worship in this Mormon view, besides being absent from the Bible.

The only feminine figure in the Bible that comes anywhere close to a GODDESS is Holy Wisdom in Proverbs 8, but this seems metaphorical
Nevertheless I will ask - is there any relation between Mormon H.M. and Holy Wisdom as described in Proverbs 8 ?

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No.

Hammster said:

Still wondering.

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Goddess = female.

Goddess = female

What a flabbergastingly profound insight!

Now, if there are more than one Heavenly Mother - let's say there are two - do they both sit at the Left hand of the Father in order of preference, and might their names be Molly and Eunice?

Phoebe Ann said:

Woman given to man to be a “helpmeet,” 29; true, seeks to perfect eternal nature, 21; given to man in divine order, 37; should be neither forced to marry or remain against her will, 40; is product of man, 40; origin of supposed curse on, 42; justified in binding self to husband’s law, 47; cannot serve two stewards, 51; is alone until she marries, 61; needs man to be fulffilled as a woman, 61; carnally minded, without God in the world, 63; who puts heart on worldly marriage is to be pittied, 67...

Rodney Turner, Woman and the Priesthood, 1972, p. 332

...to be continued.

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Understanding the role of the priesthood might be helpful in understanding the role of the Mormon heavenly mother.

The Order of Heaven
...content disappeared
Woman and the Priesthood, p.46-47

...to be continued because my injured arm is in pain

Role?

The role of her NON- EXISTENCE?

Tra Phull said:

Role?

The role of her NON- EXISTENCE?

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She doesn't exist, but people have questions I have a knowledge of Mormonism.

I hope your arm gets better Phoebe Ann.

We will address the non-existent Heavenly Mother and the aspects of her non-existence as best we can

So, the Mormon faith asserts things about the attributes of God which are quite strange.

God used to be a man, and also there is a Heavenly Mother.

Just today I saw a new poster on CF - asking what is this Mormonism stuff?

And so they are ultimately are directed to this forum.

And the non-Mormons who frequent this forum try to point out that some of the doctrines which Mormons have put forth are simply not true.

It is not that we want to be mean to Mormons, but simply that it is not true that God the Father used to be a man, or that there is a Heavenly Mother.

OK---Let's review--

He is the way said:

hā·’ā·ḏām is not translated as mankind in any of the translations of the Bible for Genesis 1:27.

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To which I answered

mmksparbud said:

Wrong!!! Adam does not man---it means human!

27 and~he~will~SHAPE(V) (וַיִּבְרָא / wai'yiv'ra) Elohiym (אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him) AT (אֶת / et) the~HUMAN (הָאָדָם / ha'a'dam) in~IMAGE~him (בְּצַלְמוֹ / bê'tsal'mo) in~IMAGE (בְּצֶלֶם / bê'tse'lem) Elohiym (אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him) he~did~SHAPE(V) (בָּרָא / ba'ra) AT~him (אֹתוֹ / o'to) MALE (זָכָר / za'khar) and~FEMALE (וּנְקֵבָה / un'qey'vah) he~did~SHAPE(V) (בָּרָא / ba'ra) AT~them(m) (אֹתָם / o'tam)

RMT: and Elohiym shaped the human in his image, in the image of Elohiym he shaped him, male and female he shaped them,

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Then you say:

He is the way said:

RMT: and Elohiym shaped the human in his image, in the image of Elohiym he shaped him, male and female he shaped them,

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To which I replied:

mmksparbud said:

male and female he shaped them,
You have a most interesting way of avoiding the truth even in your own posts!

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And now it's:

He is the way said:

RMT Genesis 1:1
in the summit “Elohiym [Powers]” fattened the sky and the land,

So much for created, I wonder what Isaiah 42:5 says in the RTM?

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Could you please explain to me how we go from talking about Adam and Eve and male and female in the image of God to
In the summit Elohim fattened the sky and the land???

I've never met anyone who can jump from one subject to another with nothing to connect the subjects!!

mmksparbud said:

Wrong!!! Adam does not man---it means human!

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I don't know Hebrew, but just to back this up a little bit from a genetically related language, in Arabic it is much the same. In fact, in Arabic the phrase banu adam (بنو آدم) -- meaning something like "descendants of Adam" -- is used to mean human beings collectively, not sons of a guy literally named Adam. Adam itself is a male name (just like in English), so it could mean that if you were talking about the literal sons of an individual man named Adam (or bnat Adam, for daughters), but that's more specific than how it is generally understood and used in a phrase like this. I would be shocked if it weren't the same in Hebrew (i.e., if Adam were not able to be used both collectively/generically and specifically), but I imagine that any one particular occasion of its use as one or the other would have to be motivated by more than the desire to fit a verse into LDS doctrine (and in that, Genesis 1:27 is clearly the 'collective' use -- just look at the form: אֹתָֽם ’ō·ṯām, which is glossed as 3rd person masculine plural, not singular).

Sadly, I know from past experience that how the language actually works has no effect on what LDS will claim about what verses mean, but hey...this is still how it actually is.

dzheremi said:

I don't know Hebrew, but just to back this up a little bit from a genetically related language, in Arabic it is much the same. In fact, in Arabic the phrase banu adam (بنو آدم) -- meaning something like "descendants of Adam" -- is used to mean human beings collectively, not sons of a guy literally named Adam. Adam itself is a male name (just like in English), so it could mean that if you were talking about the literal sons of an individual man named Adam (or bnat Adam, for daughters), but that's more specific than how it is generally understood and used in a phrase like this. I would be shocked if it weren't the same in Hebrew (i.e., if Adam were not able to be used both collectively/generically and specifically), but I imagine that any one particular occasion of its use as one or the other would have to be motivated by more than the desire to fit a verse into LDS doctrine (and in that, Genesis 1:27 is clearly the 'collective' use -- just look at the form: אֹתָֽם ’ō·ṯām, which is glossed as 3rd person masculine plural, not singular).

Sadly, I know from past experience that how the language actually works has no effect on what LDS will claim about what verses mean, but hey...this is still how it actually is.

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Yes, in Hebrew Adam is used the same way, specifically and collectively. And yes, also, on the fact that how any word is actually used in Hebrew makes no difference to the LDS, they will take JS', words over the Hebrew because it fits their believes more. He had no concept of real Jewish thinking. That is why they have had to come up with this heavenly mother thing, for it is Jewish thought that God is all that is male and all that is female in one. That is why He is called El Shaddai--which is breasts, and in pictographs breasts were used for He provides us our nourishment. They in no way considered God as female noir had a female deity. The female deity that the Jews would worship was a pagan goddess that God often had to chastise them for worshipping her and they have found many little statues of her throughout ancient Israel---JS blew that completely out of context into this heavenly mother claiming it was ancient Jewish practice that amongst those so called lost knowledge. Baloney---JS had no knowledge of ancient Jewish believes---so, naturally, anything based on actual Jewish thinking is completely wrong.---And I am no expert on the subject and I know more about it than he ever did---I have the internet---plus several Jewish friends, some of which were pastors of some of our our churches.

Tra Phull said:

What about the LADY ANGELS seen in vision in Zechariah 5?

Is this possibly Heavenly Mom 1 and Heavenly Mom 2 carrying Wickedness in a basket?

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There are no angels that are male---all known angels that have names have all been called by male names or referred to us a he. Those in Zachariah are not called as angels but women with wings, they are visions and it calls it wickedness. A wicked woman has always depicted the backsliding people of God. God often calls them an adulterous woman in depicting them as fallen from their husband--Him.There is no grounds for any heavenly mother and the Jews never had that belief except for when they backslid and worshipped pagan goddesses.

The two winged women in Zechariah 5 vision are carrying a basket which contains another woman who is WICKEDNESS

They are taking the basket to Shinar/Babylon

If it disturbs people to call them lady angels, sorry, they are technically winged women Zechariah saw in vision

I now return to the search for the Heavenly Mom of the Mormons

But there is no evidence to return to

mmksparbud said:

OK---Let's review--



To which I answered


Then you say:


To which I replied:


And now it's:




Could you please explain to me how we go from talking about Adam and Eve and male and female in the image of God to
In the summit Elohim fattened the sky and the land???

I've never met anyone who can jump from one subject to another with nothing to connect the subjects!!

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It was a jump, but since you like the RMT so much because it is a mechanical translation of the Hebrew into English, it is totally against creating out of nothing. Are you sure you want to continue with the RMT? God did create male and female the same way a father does. But the female is not in His image. She is in the image of her mother.

What is RTM?