Joe Biden says, "that he is going to beat Joe Biden"

The Barbarian · May 28, 2020

grasping the after wind said:
Telling the truth? Name me someone that consistently tells the truth when it is not to their advantage to do so and is therefore qualified to point out how much someone else doesn't tell the truth.

Sorry, but the "no one's perfect, so we can't criticize anyone" story won't fly for me. Everyone knows that Trump is a compulsive liar. No point in denial. On the other hand, Biden is known for speaking his mind, even when it's better for him not to do that.

Couldn't be a bigger contrast.

grasping the after wind · May 28, 2020

The Barbarian said:
Sorry, but the "no one's perfect, so we can't criticize anyone" story won't fly for me. Everyone knows that Trump is a compulsive liar. No point in denial. On the other hand, Biden is known for speaking his mind, even when it's better for him not to do that.

Couldn't be a bigger contrast.

I see two very similar people in Biden and Trump.
I see very few truth tellers anywhere.

Though I sometimes fail to refrain from pointing my finger in self righteousness , I try to take Jesus warnings and advice seriously at least I don't just hand wave them away.

Matt 7:1-5
New International Version
1“Do not judge, or you will be judged. 2For with the same judgment you pronounce, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3Why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but fail to notice the beam in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ while there is still a beam in your own eye? 5You hypocrite! First take the beam out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

Mountainmanbob · May 28, 2020

Arc F1 said:
Joe is getting worse every day. He should think about going into retirement. They should never have encouraged him to run.

Might not be too late to pull him out?
M

Arc F1 · Jun 4, 2020

The Barbarian said:
He was pro-abortion. He now says he doesn't believe in it. But only after he wanted to run as a republican. He says he's pro-gay:

But I think he'd throw them under the bus just has he has thrown Christians under the bus, if he thought he could benefit from it in any way.

Agreed

Arc F1 · Jun 4, 2020

Evan Jellicoe said:
This seems like an absolutely sensible objection on the face of it, but it actually isn't. Democrats are not trying to establish anti-Christian values; they are working for what we call "freedom of conscience" (even for non-Christians). Let people make up their own mind, and let God be the judge. Having secular laws against immoral conduct amounts to trying to enforce righteousness by Law. The Bible is very clear that righteousness is by faith, not law. Leaving people alone to work out their own salvation (or not) and then allow God to be the judge is actually a Christian action. (See I Corinthians 5:12-13)

Have you read 1 Corinthians? After reading it let me know. I would love to discuss it.

Arc F1 · Jun 4, 2020

Evan Jellicoe said:
First of all, they haven't figured out that they should use the term, so they don't. they simply approach things the way Libertarians (along with most Americans) do in practice: people should be free to do whatever they want to do, provided that it does no harm to other people. By that reasoning, what the guy down the street watches on TV or does in bed is of no concern to me whatsoever. But if he values his own freedom above public health, then there is a legitimate debate about whether or not he is hurting others.

Is there inconsistency? Yes. When regulators want to limit how big a soda I can buy, to protect my own health, I believe they are overstepping. So just as I reject the notion that "Republicans always good, Democrats always bad" I also reject the equal-but-opposite "Democrats always good, Republicans always bad." I only say that on balance Republican positions are worse than Democratic positions.

You say it's none of your business but that's no way to let your light shine. How will they ever know if nobody approached them with the word of God?

Albion · Jun 4, 2020

The Barbarian said:
There are fact-check sites keeping track of his lies.

The problem with those sites is that they construe what he says that is not 100% accurate in a literal sense as a "lie." That is not the definition of a lie.

He speaks off the cuff, not with a phony Harvard-ish style on certain occasions or a Southern accent when addressing a gathering of black voters, etc., although we all know politicians who take care to do just that. So he is always susceptible to being called a liar even though everybody knows what he meant and even though most of us talk that same way.

Incidentally, I just told a lie, according to those sites. Did you notice that I said "everybody knows?" Well, there probably is someone somewhere who does not know, so that can be attacked as wrong...or, better yet, as a "lie" even though most Americans know that it's just an expression.

Of course, none of this is done by the "sites" to Joe Biden, whose choice of words could stand a little touch-up.

Arc F1 · Jun 4, 2020

grasping the after wind said:
I see two very similar people in Biden and Trump.
I see very few truth tellers anywhere.

Though I sometimes fail to refrain from pointing my finger in self righteousness , I try to take Jesus warnings and advice seriously at least I don't just hand wave them away.

Matt 7:1-5
New International Version
1“Do not judge, or you will be judged. 2For with the same judgment you pronounce, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3Why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but fail to notice the beam in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ while there is still a beam in your own eye? 5You hypocrite! First take the beam out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

If the Bible says thou shalt not murder and I tell someone they are wrong that's God's judgment not mine. Non Christians always love to tell me how the Bible says not to judge people and that I should never speak out. I don't think they grasp the meaning of the verse. We should all be in the light and have nothing to hide. Especially our love for the lord.

The Barbarian · Jun 4, 2020

There are fact-check sites keeping track of his lies.

Albion said:
The problem with those sites is that they construe what he says that is not 100% accurate in a literal sense as a "lie." That is not the definition of a lie.

When I was growing up, I was taught that if I said something I didn't know to be true, I was lying. How about you?

He speaks off the cuff, not with a phony Harvard-ish style on certain occasions or a Southern accent when addressing a gathering of black voters, etc., although we all know politicians who take care to do just that. So he is always susceptible to being called a liar even though everybody knows what he meant and even though most of us talk that same way.

Speak for yourself. The latest issue was first the story was that the Secret Service forced him to hide in the Bunker. Then the story was that he didn't go to the bunker. Then the story was that he was just "inspecting" the bunker, not hiding in it. Do you not see how that plays with Americans?

Incidentally, I just told a lie, according to those sites. Did you notice that I said "everybody knows?" Well, there probably is someone somewhere who does not know, so that can be attacked as wrong...or, better yet, as a "lie" even though most Americans know that it's just an expression.

So you equate that to "car bombs around the White House", or his false claim that the Mueller report had "totally exonerated" him? Mueller himself testified that was false.

Of course, none of this is done by the "sites" to Joe Biden, whose choice of words could stand a little touch-up.

Well, let's take a look. From Snopes:
Biden exaggerated when he said “I wrote an article” about the coronavirus on Jan. 27 that “said this pandemic’s here.” Biden actually referred to the outbreak as a “global health challenge” and argued that Trump was not prepared to lead the country through “the possibility of a pandemic.”
...
(Biden) also gave himself too much credit when he said, “I’m the guy that said we ought to … find out exactly how many people in the black community are getting COVID and are dying from it.” On April 9, Biden joined several Democrats who had already called for the federal health department to collect racial and ethnic demographic data on testing and treatment.

It's just that Biden doesn't give them as much material to work with as Trump does. This is why the "other people lie, but they get a pass" is such a loser. Trump is a compulsive liar. He lies even when there's no apparent reason to lie. It's just what he does. All politicians lie to some degree; they are human, and very few humans have the capacity to never, ever lie. Trump has a character disorder that leads him to lie continuously.

You'd do better to acknowledge the fact, and argue that it doesn't matter. Biden occasionally has a foul mouth. His supporters acknowledge the fact. That works much better than denial.

The Barbarian · Jun 4, 2020

Trump lies about his attack on peaceful citizens:

It appears that this attack on the people in front of the church was caused by people laughing at Trump for hiding in the WH bunker. So he used a military force to clear the church for his photo op to prove whatever he thought it proved.

The presidency is falling apart, one deranged idea after another.

Albion · Jun 4, 2020

The Barbarian said:
Well, let's take a look. From Snopes:
Biden exaggerated when he said “I wrote an article” about the coronavirus on Jan. 27 that “said this pandemic’s here.”

Exactly so. Trump reportedly "lies" when he says things that are true but could be misconstrued by somebody. But Biden, as you point out, merely "exaggerates." Sometimes he also "misspeaks." LOL

Evan Jellicoe · Jun 4, 2020

Arc F1 said:
Have you read 1 Corinthians? After reading it let me know. I would love to discuss it.

Yes I have. Are you referring to the part where Paul writes "Put out the evil one from among you" (and then leave him alone if he refuses to repent and ask forgiveness?) Are are you talking about where he writes "What have I to do with judging those outside the church? God will judge them."? Or perhaps you are focusing on chapter 13, where Paul says that love is so important that it surpasses even theological knowledge or the gift of faith? I think that if we combine Paul's teaching about love with Jesus' teaching about loving our enemies, today's political landscape might look a lot different.

Now, moving ahead a little bit, I am aware that Democrats themselves do not use the term "freedom of conscience." They should, but they don't. I also know that many of them desire not just freedom for themselves, but to force Christians to agree with them and celebrate sinful practices. Many would rejoice if Christian pastors were legally forced to perform same-sex marriages. I have no illusions that all Democrats are reasonable and fair-minded. Many of them do indeed want to conquer the conservative half of the country. The same way that many conservatives wish they could conquer the liberal half of the country.

But I still maintain that on balance, considering all the strengths and all the weaknesses of both sides, the Democratic side is less bad than the Republican side. Neither side is "Christian," but the Democratic side is less far away from Christian ideals.

Arc F1 said:
You say it's none of your business but that's no way to let your light shine. How will they ever know if nobody approached them with the word of God?

I'm a little confused with this one. Are you suggesting that using secular law to enforce Christian values is a way of "letting my light shine"? Using the government to enforce Christianity was common practice beginning in 380 A.D. in the Roman Empire. Oddly, Southern Christian fundamentalists generally condemn the Catholic Church for combining the Church and the government, yet they seem to support the very same mixing of Church and state here in America. I cannot understand how that is not a double standard.

Albion · Jun 4, 2020

Evan Jellicoe said:
But I still maintain that on balance, considering all the strengths and all the weaknesses of both sides, the Democratic side is less bad than the Republican side. Neither side is "Christian," but the Democratic side is less far away from Christian ideals.

Not really. It just depends on which ideals the observer chooses to overlook.

Broken Fence · Jun 4, 2020

Evan Jellicoe said:
No. He and the Democratic Party are advocating for what is called "freedom of conscience." They generally don't use that term, but that's what it is. They are not calling for the establishment of anti-Christian values, they are only calling for people's freedom to make their own moral choices without government coercion. Which I think is a pretty Biblical position. Even the Apostle Paul wrote "What have I to do with judging those outside the Church? God will judge them."
Seeing as how it was the Baptists who were the earliest and strongest advocates of freedom of conscience in Colonial America (freedom even for non-Christians), I find it ironic that it is now the Baptists who seem the least interested in upholding that principle for other people.

This country was founded on christian principals. There is a reason the president must be a Christian.

The Barbarian · Jun 4, 2020

Albion said:
Exactly so. Trump reportedly "lies" when he says things that are true but could be misconstrued by somebody.

No,he lies when he says things that he knows are false. Would you like to see some more examples?

But Biden, as you point out, merely "exaggerates." Sometimes he also "misspeaks."

Perhaps you don't know what "exaggerate"means. That's exactly what Biden did there. C'mon.

There's really no point in denying that Trump is a compulsive liar. Even his lawyers know it. They do everything they can to keep him from giving a deposition, knowing he will perjure himself.

The Barbarian · Jun 4, 2020

Cbowles said:
This country was founded on christian principals. There is a reason the president must be a Christian.

Actually, there's no rule or law that says the president must be a Christian.

Evan Jellicoe · Jun 4, 2020

Cbowles said:
This country was founded on christian principals. There is a reason the president must be a Christian.

??
What exactly do you mean by this, and where did you get the idea? The Constitution never states that being a Christian is a requirement for a President, and in fact says the exact opposite: ". . .but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust." So what are you trying to say?

Broken Fence · Jun 4, 2020

The Barbarian said:
Actually, there's no rule or law that says the president must be a Christian.

I thought he did. Guess that is what I get for thinking.

Mountainmanbob · Jun 4, 2020

Broken Fence said:
This country was founded on christian principals. There is a reason the president must be a Christian.

It's really too bad that
it doesn't work that way.
M

tulc · Jun 4, 2020

Mountainmanbob said:
It's really too bad that
it doesn't work that way.
M

Well...to be fair, the people who wrote the Constitution didn't seem to think it was a good idea to make it a "Christian only" sort of thing. :wave:

tulc(is happy to find something he can agree with them about) :oldthumbsup:

Joe Biden says, "that he is going to beat Joe Biden"

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