The Baptism of Fire

Mr. M · May 28, 2020

Matthew 3:11. I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry.
He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Luke 3:16. John answered, saying to all, I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose.
He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

The disciples of Jesus Christ were baptized with the Holy Spirit.
They laid hands on new converts who received the Holy Spirit.
The baptism of fire, what is it? When does it occur?

JLB777 · May 28, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
Matthew 3:11. I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry.
He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Luke 3:16. John answered, saying to all, I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose.
He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

The disciples of Jesus Christ were baptized with the Holy Spirit.
They laid hands on new converts who received the Holy Spirit.
The baptism of fire, what is it? When does it occur?

The baptism of the Holy Spirit and Fire is one baptism.

It usually occurs through the laying on of hands and results in evidence that is seen and heard.

Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. Acts 2:33

JLB

Mr. M · May 28, 2020

1 Peter 4:
12 Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you,
as though some strange thing happened to you;
13 but rejoice to the extent that you partake of Christ’s sufferings, that when His glory is revealed, you may also be glad with exceeding joy.
14 If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you,
for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you.

Do the trials and tribulations that saints have faced grant the Holy Spirit
the opportunity to purify the intents of our hearts?

Aussie Pete · May 28, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
Matthew 3:11. I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry.
He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Luke 3:16. John answered, saying to all, I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose.
He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

The disciples of Jesus Christ were baptized with the Holy Spirit.
They laid hands on new converts who received the Holy Spirit.
The baptism of fire, what is it? When does it occur?

Most of the time in God's word, "fire" is judgement. I disagree with the idea that the Baptism of the Spirit and fire are one and the same. Our God is a consuming fire (Hebrews 12:29). I don't see much consuming going on with Pentecostals and Charismatics. I've met Pentecostals who are full of pride, full of contempt for anyone who does not believe as they do and are hard hearted as well. The irony is that so many fell hook line and sinker for the deceit of the Toronto Blessing. I get labelled Pentecostal because I accept the Baptism of the Holy Spirit as a second experience. I am not. I'm just a Christian. I did not get consumed when I received the Holy Spirit! We experience trials that are like fire. The picture is of a goldsmith refining gold (1 Peter 1:7). The heat melts the gold, which is denser than the dross. The dross is removed by the goldsmith. He is satisfied when he sees his reflection in the molten gold. So God is satisfied when the "dross" of self is removed and Lord Jesus can be seen in us. It's a process, not once off.

Richard T · May 28, 2020

Aussie Pete said:
Most of the time in God's word, "fire" is judgement. I disagree with the idea that the Baptism of the Spirit and fire are one and the same. Our God is a consuming fire (Hebrews 12:29). I don't see much consuming going on with Pentecostals and Charismatics. I've met Pentecostals who are full of pride, full of contempt for anyone who does not believe as they do and are hard hearted as well. The irony is that so many fell hook line and sinker for the deceit of the Toronto Blessing. I get labelled Pentecostal because I accept the Baptism of the Holy Spirit as a second experience. I am not. I'm just a Christian. I did not get consumed when I received the Holy Spirit! We experience trials that are like fire. The picture is of a goldsmith refining gold (1 Peter 1:7). The heat melts the gold, which is denser than the dross. The dross is removed by the goldsmith. He is satisfied when he sees his reflection in the molten gold. So God is satisfied when the "dross" of self is removed and Lord Jesus can be seen in us. It's a process, not once off.

Aussie Pete is right. When Jesus says i will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire, in Matthew 3, Jesus is talking about two different groups. The Holy Spirit for believers and fire for the Pharisees that he was just talking about. Look at that chapter in context. Now I know that some preach for you to get the fire and to be zealous etc for God, there is nothing wrong with that, but to be baptized into fire likely means wrath and an eternity of hell. A great question from the Minister M here.
Matthew 3:7 (YLT)
7 And having seen many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming about his baptism, he said to them, `Brood of vipers! who did shew you to flee from the coming wrath?

Mr. M · May 28, 2020

Richard T said:
Aussie Pete is right. When Jesus says i will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire, in Matthew 3, Jesus is talking about two different groups. The Holy Spirit for believers and fire for the Pharisees that he was just talking about. Look at that chapter in context. Now I know that some preach for you to get the fire and to be zealous etc for God, there is nothing wrong with that, but to be baptized into fire likely means wrath and an eternity of hell. A great question from the Minister M here.
Matthew 3:7 (YLT)
7 And having seen many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming about his baptism, he said to them, `Brood of vipers! who did shew you to flee from the coming wrath?

Here is something else that I am driving towards. The Lord spoke of His sufferings as a baptism.
Matthew 10:
22 But Jesus answered and said, “You do not know what you ask. Are you able to drink the cup that I am about to drink, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?”
They said to Him, “We are able.”
23 So He said to them, “You will indeed drink My cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with; but to sit on My right hand and on My left is not Mine to give, but it is for those for whom it is prepared by My Father.”
Colossians 1:24. I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church.

I have endured some circumstances that could be described as a "ghostrider" experience. You know, the dude with his head on fire. Long nights.

Richard T · May 28, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
Here is something else that I am driving towards. The Lord spoke of His sufferings as a baptism.
Matthew 10:
22 But Jesus answered and said, “You do not know what you ask. Are you able to drink the cup that I am about to drink, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?”
They said to Him, “We are able.”
23 So He said to them, “You will indeed drink My cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with; but to sit on My right hand and on My left is not Mine to give, but it is for those for whom it is prepared by My Father.”
Colossians 1:24. I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church.

I have endured some circumstances that could be described as a "ghostrider" experience. You know, the dude with his head on fire. Long nights.

Yes, you are right about this baptism. In my circle we call that the baptism of suffering, not the baptism of fire. Here is a list of baptisms where the differences are noted. 7 Baptisms of the Bible - What is the One Baptism - Striving for Truth

Mr. M · May 28, 2020

The Holy Spirit of Consolation and Comfort.

Comfort in Suffering 2 Corinthians 1:
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort,
4 who comforts us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort those who are in any trouble, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.
5 For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also abounds through Christ.
6 Now if we are afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effective for enduring the same sufferings which we also suffer. Or if we are comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation.
7 And our hope for you is steadfast, because we know that as you are partakers of the sufferings, so also you will partake of the consolation.
Halleluyah!

Mr. M · May 28, 2020

Richard T said:
Yes, you are right about this baptism. In my circle we call that the baptism of suffering, not the baptism of fire. Here is a list of baptisms where the differences are noted. 7 Baptisms of the Bible - What is the One Baptism - Striving for Truth

This was the final destination of the OP!

In this context, three different baptisms are in view. First, the baptism of John. Second, the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Finally, the baptism of fire. Some suggest the fire refers to the “tongues as of fire” resting upon the Apostles in Acts 2:3. However, it seems that John explains what he means in the surrounding context. Christ will gather his wheat securely into his barn, but one day the chaff will be burned with unquenchable fire. Seemingly, this speaks of the future administration of judgment on those who disobey the gospel.

Similarly, 2 Thessalonians 1:5-9 reveals Christ will return in “flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus” (v. 8). Therefore, this baptism is not of water. Instead, it is eternal “fire” to all those who do not obey the gospel or know the Lord. This is not the “one baptism” paul speaks of in Ephesians 4.

Mr. M · May 28, 2020

Richard T said:
Yes, you are right about this baptism. In my circle we call that the baptism of suffering, not the baptism of fire. Here is a list of baptisms where the differences are noted. 7 Baptisms of the Bible - What is the One Baptism - Striving for Truth

Peter also speaks to this Richard, Yes?
The Day of the Lord 2 Peter 3:
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Mr. M · May 28, 2020

So, the question is, do all believers get a "free pass" on that Day of the Lord.
Now here is the baptism of fire to my understanding:
1 Corinthians 3:
12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is.
14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.
15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved,
yet so as through fire.

Richard T · May 28, 2020

Yes, you can view it that way. However "through fire", might be slightly different than baptism of fire. The baptism might mean there is no salvation, complete immersion, the "through fire" seems to imply that it is a Christian with very little works.

a-lily-of-peace · May 28, 2020

It makes me think of this:

And all that sat in the council, fastening their eyes on him, saw his face as it had been the face of an angel.
(Acts 6:15, ASV)

And even this:

But when Moses went in before Jehovah to speak with him, he took the veil off, until he came out; and he came out, and spake unto the children of Israel that which he was commanded. And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses’ face shone: and Moses put the veil upon his face again, until he went in to speak with him.
(Exodus 34:34-35, ASV)

And of course this:

And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into a high mountain apart: and he was transfigured before them; and his face did shine as the sun, and his garments became white as the light.
(Matthew 17:1-2, ASV)

Mr. M · May 28, 2020

"For our God is a Consuming Fire" should motivate us all; not just sinners to repentance.

JosephZ · May 28, 2020

"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that comes after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and fire." (Matthew 3:11)

To get a proper understanding of what is being said here, we have to go back to the beginning of Matthew chapter 3. There it tells us that there was a multitude of people when John said "he shall baptize you"

"Then Jerusalem was going out to him, and all Judea and all the district around the Jordan; and they were being baptized by him in the Jordan River, as they confessed their sins. But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, 'You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?'" (Matthew 3:5-7)

What he is saying is that ALL of you people out there are going to be baptized. If you are not baptized with the Holy Spirit, then you are going to instead be baptized with fire. It's going to be one or the other, NOT both.

I will add a little more context of John the Baptist's preaching by including verse 12. I think this will show things even more clearly.

"The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” (Matthew 3:10-12)

Now we can clearly see what is being said. The wheat in verse 12 represents the believers, and the chaff are those who chose not to believe. So it will be the chaff, the unbelievers, who will be the ones baptized with fire, not those who choose to believe that Jesus is their Lord and Savior.

Now to make things perfectly clear, let's look back in the Old Testament to the Book of Malachi the fourth chapter.

"'For behold, the day is coming, burning like a furnace; and all the arrogant and every evildoer will be chaff; and the day that is coming will set them ablaze,' says the Lord of hosts, 'so that it will leave them neither root nor branch. But for you who fear My name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings; and you will go forth and skip about like calves from the stall. You will tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day which I am preparing,' says the Lord of hosts.

Remember the law of Moses My servant, even the statutes and ordinances which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel.

Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the Lord. He will restore the hearts of the fathers to their children and the hearts of the children to their fathers, so that I will not come and smite the land with a curse.” (Malachi 4:1-6)

John the Baptist was repeating what Malachi had prophesied, only in his own words.

So when he said "he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire", fire baptism is clearly not a blessing. That is not something that we never want to experience.

The Bible is very clear on this subject. It said that you are going to be baptized. You will either be baptized with the Holy Spirit or you will be baptized with fire. John the baptist was talking about judgment day when God was to gather the wicked and consume them with fire when he spoke of this.

We should all wish to be baptized in the Holy Spirit. John the Baptist, Peter, Jesus, and Paul all taught that we need to be baptized in the Holy Spirit. Not one of them ever suggested we should be baptized by fire.

Phil W · May 28, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
Matthew 3:11. I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry.
He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Luke 3:16. John answered, saying to all, I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose.
He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

The disciples of Jesus Christ were baptized with the Holy Spirit.
They laid hands on new converts who received the Holy Spirit.
The baptism of fire, what is it? When does it occur?

The baptism of fire is the end of the world and the day of judgement.
Look at the next verse in Matt 3...(12)..."Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."
It seems obvious to me, and I hope it is to you too.

Phil W · May 28, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
So, the question is, do all believers get a "free pass" on that Day of the Lord.
Now here is the baptism of fire to my understanding:
1 Corinthians 3:
12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is.
14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.
15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved,
yet so as through fire.

I've always considered the "work" of verse 15 as those whom we have exposed to Christ.
Not all of them will survive the impending baptism of fire, as they were chaff, hay, and stubble.
I continue to pray for all those I have witnessed to, praying that they will morph from hay to diamonds.

1213 · May 28, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
...
They laid hands on new converts who received the Holy Spirit.
The baptism of fire, what is it? When does it occur?

It can be asked directly from God.

If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him?
Luke 11:13

BrotherJJ · May 28, 2020

Minister Monardo said:
Matthew 3:11. I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry.
He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Luke 3:16. John answered, saying to all, I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose.
He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

The disciples of Jesus Christ were baptized with the Holy Spirit.
They laid hands on new converts who received the Holy Spirit.
The baptism of fire, what is it? When does it occur?

Deut 4:24 For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire

Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

This Consuming Fire can also anoint/indwell believers with His eternal life giving Holy Spirit.

Matt 3:11 & Luke 3:16 he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

(NOTE: Fire can simply mean fire. In Matt & Lk it symbolizes judgment of sin & eternal destruction. Only Christ: the Alpha & Omega, Beginning & End, Creator & Final Judge. Can baptize with the salvation/sealing, eternal life giving, indwelling Holy Spirit &/or with sins eternal separating judgment/CONSUMING FIRE. (Isa 5:24 & 66:24) may add additional context)

This is My Opinion Only.

Broken Fence · May 28, 2020

Holy Spirit fire

The Lord gave me
Holy Spirit fire
He called be home
He sanctified my desire

In His hands
I do rest
He causes me
To withstand his test

Deep away
In tragic tongue
He carries me
Like dung

Through the garden I walk
Bible in hand
His voice I hear
I obey His command

No tragic verdict
Do I hear or hire
I am saved
Holy Spirit fire

The Baptism of Fire

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God with us!

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