Hades Is A Real Place of Torment and Agony

Major1

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Of course the extent of "all" is determined by the context. For example:

1 Cor.15:25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.

How many will be "under His feet"? Just enemies or all:

1 Cor.15:27 For “He has put in subjection all under His feet.” But when it may be said that all has been put in subjection, it is evident that the One having put in subjection all to Him is excepted.

So there is only one exception to "all" to be "put...under his feet". Then God will be "in" "all", hence universal salvation:

1 Cor.15:28 And when all shall be subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all under him, that God may be all in all.

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You said...…….
"Of course the extent of "all" is determined by the context.

That being the case our discussion is now over as you have been shown to be in error. You cannot make "ALL" mean what YOU want it to mean which is what I have said all along!
 
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Major1

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Dr.Robert Young

Author of…

  1. A New Translation Of The Bible

  2. New Concordance To The Greek New Testament

  3. Dictionary & Concordance Of Bible Words & Synonyms.

  4. Concise Concordance To Eight Thousand Changes Of The Revised Testament

  5. Numerous Other Words In Biblical & Oriental Literature.
Dr. Robert Young Analytical Concordance

pa’ß =

All points, all men, all things. All, whole, completely. (1075 verses)

All = lk=

All, the whole, any, each, every, everything, totality. (24 passages)

All =lylk=

Entire, all. Complete, wholly. (15 verses)

All = br =

Multitudes/ abundance (149 verses)

All= o&loß =

All. Whole. Completely. (99 verses)

This is your mission for today, should you be willing to accept it Big Guy…

List the koine scholars who maintain all does not mean all.

Koine Greek Scholars: All does not mean all =

1 _____________________________________________.

2.______________________________________________

3.______________________________________________

4.______________________________________________

Why not start with the Greek-English Lexicon Of The New Testament by William F. Arndt & Wilbur Gingrich

PAS, pa’sa, pa’n gen. pantov", pavsh", pantov" (dat. pl. pa’si and pa’sin vary considerably in the mss.; s. W-S. §5, 28; cf. Rob. 219-21) (Hom.+; inscr., pap., LXX, En., Ep. Arist., Philo, Joseph., Test. 12 Patr.).

The Messiah says that it is not given for everyone to hear or to understand. Speaking to his disciples about the Edomite leadership of the Judean nation he said in Matthew 13:11......
"Because it is given to you to understand the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given".

Immediately we have just one exception like this, then "every" and "all" cannot include that exception, or the other exceptions. If an exception is made about the Edomites who cannot find repentance, or of those born as tares about which the Messiah said, "Leave them alone", then these cannot be part of the "all" being addressed. The Messiah did not preach to certain peoples, as we have seen. The Messiah said he was sent to Israel and to save "his people" Israel from their sins. Are we to be wiser than the Messiah?
The Misuse of the Words, "All," "Every," "Whoseoever," Etc.
 
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Der Alte

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FineLinen said:
Dr.Robert Young
Author of…
A New Translation Of The Bible
New Concordance To The Greek New Testament
Dictionary & Concordance Of Bible Words & Synonyms.
Concise Concordance To Eight Thousand Changes Of The Revised Testament
Numerous Other Words In Biblical & Oriental Literature.
Dr. Robert Young Analytical Concordance
pa’ß =
All points, all men, all things. All, whole, completely. (1075 verses)
All = lk=
All, the whole, any, each, every, everything, totality. (24 passages)
All =lylk=
Entire, all. Complete, wholly. (15 verses)
All = br =
Multitudes/ abundance (149 verses)
All= o&loß =
All. Whole. Completely. (99 verses)
This is your mission for today, should you be willing to accept it Big Guy…
List the koine scholars who maintain all does not mean all.
Koine Greek Scholars: All does not mean all =..
FineLinen said:
Need I say more
Robert Young was born in Edinburgh, Scotland, the son of John Young a book-binder on Parliament Square on the Royal Mile.[1] He served an apprenticeship in printing and simultaneously taught himself various oriental languages. He eventually joined the Free Church, and in 1847 he started his own business of printing and selling books, particularly of works related to Old Testament studies, with a shop at 5 North Bank Street off the Royal Mile.[2]
The Bauer, Danker, Arndt, Gingrich definition of Pas is about 5 pages long but here is the relative part.
πᾶς, πᾶσα, πᾶν gen. παντός, πάσης, παντός (dat. pl. πᾶσι and πᾶσιν vary considerably in the mss.; s. W-S. §5, 28; cp. Rob. 219–21; on the use of the art. s. B-D-F §275) (Hom. +).
⑤ everything belonging, in kind, to the class designated by the noun, every kind of, all sorts of, adj. for the words παντοδαπός and παντοῖος, which are lacking in our lit.: πᾶσα νόσος καὶ πᾶσα μαλακία Mt 4:23. γέμουσιν πάσης ἀκαθαρσίας they are full of all kinds of uncleanness 23:27 (Ar. 15, 6). πᾶσα ἐξουσία 28:18. ἀπὸ παντὸς ἔθνους from every kind of nation Ac 2:5. Cp. 7:22; 13:10ab; Ro 1:18, 29. πᾶσα ἐπιθυμία (evil) desire of every kind 7:8. ἐν παντὶ λόγῳ καὶ πάσῃ γνώσει 1 Cor 1:5b. πᾶν ἁμάρτημα every kind of sin 6:18. Cp. 2 Cor 7:1; 9:8bc; 10:5ab; Eph 1:3, 8, 21a; 4:19; 5:3; Phil 1:9; 2 Th 2:17. πᾶν ἔργον ἀγαθόν Tit 1:16; 3:1. Cp. 2:14; Hb 13:21. πᾶσα δόσις, πᾶν δώρημα Js 1:17 (W-S. §20, 11b). Cp. vs. 21; 1 Pt 2:1ab; Rv 8:7 al.—B. 919. Schmidt, Syn. IV, 540–54, s. ἕκαστος and ὅλος. DELG. M-M. EDNT. TW. Sv.[1]
[1] Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 784). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
 
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FineLinen

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The Messiah says that it is not given for everyone to hear or to understand. Speaking to his disciples about the Edomite leadership of the Judean nation he said in Matthew 13:11......
"Because it is given to you to understand the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given".

Immediately we have just one exception like this, then "every" and "all" cannot include that exception, or the other exceptions.

Big Guy: your new word for today = synecdoche.

There are a few (very few) exceptions to the radical all of pas.

Coming up = the radical unbelievers Scripture.
 
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FineLinen

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Big Guy: your new word for today = synecdoche.

There are a few (very few) exceptions to the radical all of pas.

Coming up = the radical unbelievers Scripture.

The New Radical Unbelief Bible

1 Cor. 15:22

“For as in Adam some die, so also in Christ some shall be made alive. But each in his own order; Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, then comes the end, when He delivers up the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished some rule and some authority and power.”

Rev. 5:13

“And some created things that are in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and some things in them, I heard saying, To Him who sits on the throne and the Lamb, be blessing and honour and glory and dominion and power forever.”

Col. 1:18-20

“He too is that head whose body is the Church, the Firstborn from the dead, he is to the Church the Source of its life, that in some things He might occupy the foremost place/ to be in some things alone supreme . For it pleased the Father that in him the divine nature in some of its fulness should dwell. And, having made peace through the blood of His cross, by him to reconcile some things unto Himself ; by him, I say, whether they be things on earth, or things in heaven. And you that were sometimes alienated…”

Acts 3:20,21

“And He will send Jesus, your destined Christ, yet heaven must retain Him, until the restitution of some things. ( when some things are put right)

1 Cor. 15:28

“And when some things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subject unto Him that put some things under Him, that God may be some in some.”

1 Cor. 15:25,27

“For He must reign until He hath put some enemies under His feet…For He hath put some things under His feet. But when He saith some things are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted, which did put some things under Him.”

Romans 11:32

“For God has consigned some men to disobedience that He might have mercy upon some.”

Eph. 4:10

“Yea, He who came down is the same who is gone up, far above some heavens, that He might fill some things with His Presence.”

John 5:28

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which some that are in the graves shall hear His voice. Those who have done good will to live and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.”

1 Timothy 2:4

“For this is good and pleasing in the eyes of God our Saviour; who will have some men to be saved and come to an increasing knowledge of the truth.”

1 Timothy 2:6

“For there is one intermediary (One who brings God and men together) who gave Himself a ransom in behalf of some to be testified in due time.”

Cor. 5:15

“For the love of God overmasters us because we judge that if one died for some, then were some dead; And that His purpose in dying for some was that men, while still in life, should cease to live for themselves, and should live for Him who for their sake died and was raised to life.”

Col. 1:16

"For by Him were some things created, of things in heaven and on earth, things seen and things unseen (angels or archangels and some of the powers of Heaven)… some things were created by Him, and for Him (some were made by Christ for His own use and glory.)

John 3:35

“The Father loves the Son, and has given some things into His hand (has given Him control over less than everything). Whoever trusts on the Son possesses eternal life and he who does not obey the Son, God’s displeasure hangs over him continually.”

Gal. 3:20

“But the Scripture has concluded/consigned some without exception to the custody of sin, in order that the promise by faith in Christ Jesus might be given to those who believe in Him.”

Heb. 1:2

“God…hath in these days spoken unto us in His Son who is the predestined Lord of the universe. (whom he has appointed heir of some things)”

2 Cor. 5:14

“For the love of Christ constraineth/overmasters/compels/controls us, and this is the conviction we have reached; if one man died on behalf of some, then some thereby became dead men. Christ died for some, so that being alive should no longer mean living with our own life, but with his life who died for some of us and has risen again.”

Heb.8:11

“And they shall not teach some men his neighbor, and some his brother, saying get to know the Lord, for some of them shall know me from small to great. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness…”

Acts 10:36

"The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: He is Lord of some.

Rom. 11:36

"For from him some things come; through Him some things exist; and in him some things end. ” (For of him and through him, and to him are some things.)

Eph. 4:6

“One Lord, one faith, one baptism. One God and Father of some, who is over some, and works through some, and dwells in some.”

Heb. 12:23

“To the festal gathering and Church of the first-born, enrolled as citizens in heaven, and to God the Judge of some men and unto the spirits of righteous ones made perfect.”

James 2:10

“For whomsoever shall keep the whole law, but fails in a single point, has become guilty of violating some.

Romans 3:22,23

“…the righteous of God which comes by believing in Jesus Christ. …For some have sinned / none have attained the glorious likeness of God/lack the glory that comes from God/ are deprived of the Divine splendour.”

John 17:2

“As thou has made him sovereign over some of mankind that he should give aionios life to as many as thou hast given him.”

Romans 9:5

“The patriarchs are theirs and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ. May God who is supreme above some, be blessed throughout the ages.”

2 Peter 3:9

“The Lord is not slack/does not loiter/ is not dilatory concerning his promise, according to some people’s conception of slowness; but He bears patiently with you, because it is not His will for any to be lost, but for some to come/reach repentance.”

Phil. 2:10,11

In order that in adoration of the Name of Jesus some knees will bow themselves and openly acknowledge with joy, in celebration and praise, that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. This profession and confession of His lordship shall be open and freely proclaimed, acknowledged joyfully by some beings in the heavens, by some beings on the earth and by some beings in the underworld.

Please Remember…

All does not radically mean all.

Whole is not whole.

All = Some
 
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Butch5

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This is getting a little out of hand. I will be glad to do this for you but I am positive that you will be unable to accept it.

May I ask you if you are a Jehovah Witness believer? I ask you that because over the years I have had this same conversation with many JW'S and you sound exactly like them.

Any, you asked me...……..
"Please show me where the Bible teaches that a man can live apart from the body."

Genesis 35:18...…..
"And it came to pass, as her soul1 was departing, that she called his name Ben-oni: but his father called him Benjamin."

REVELATION 6:9-11
" And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls2 of those who were killed for the Word of God, and for the testimony which they held".

We are told that the souls of the righteous dead are under the altar, which CAN ONLY BE in heaven. These were killed for their testimony and they were crying out. They were not asleep, or non-existent, nor did they "know nothing" as some teach. They were receiving white robes (v11) and waiting for other Christians to be killed so that they could be resurrected when Jesus returns.

Jesus also said in John 11:26...….
"Everyone who lives and believes in me shall certainly not die for ever."

Now those who heard him all died physically so he could only be referring to the soul or spirit.

Apparently you are thinking that I am sitting here at my desk just makeing this stuff up as I go along. My dear friend, the reason why I post so many Scripture references is so that you or no one else would think such a thing.

No, I'm not a Johovah's Witness.

I don't think you're making stuff up. I here these same arguments from many others. These passages don't "teach" that man can live apart from the body. They are statements, they aren't teachings. Teachings are like what Jesus did on the Sermon on the Mount, you have heard it said... but I say unto you. If someone asked me where does that Bible "teach" that one is saved by grace, I would take them to Romans 3 and 4 where Paul spends about a chapter laying out an argument of how the Law was not sufficient to save and that how it's been by grace from the very beginning. That's teaching. You've given me a few passage from which you've deduced that man can live apart from that body. You've deduced that because you come to the text believing it. I see it all the time. When I say the Bible teaches that man is a physical being, I go to a passage that actually teaches it.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.1 (Gen. 2:7 KJV)

Here Moses recorded how God created man and he wrote it down to teach the Israelites. It says that God formed the man from the dust of the earth. That tells us what man is. He is the dust of the earth or the elements of the earth. Moses then records that God breath the breath of life into the man. The breath of life is something of God Himself. It's not man, it's God. Moses records that when God did this, the man became something else. He became a living soul. From this we see that a living soul consists of a man, the body, and the breath of life from God. Those two things when put together by God formed a living soul. Logic dictates that if those two things separate the soul no longer exists. It didn't exist before they were combined so it wouldn't exist when they are separated. We are told in Scripture that when they separate the spirit or breath, same word, returns to God. It's something of God and it returns to Him. The man, the Body returns to the dust. In the creation of man we have two things coming together to form a third. When one of those things is removed the thing they became no longer exists. We're told where these two thing go at death. There is nothing left to live on after death. Each part is accounted for. That is what I'm talking about when I ask where does the Bible teach that man can live on after death. The Bible teaches how God created man. What I see there is a man, the body. The breath or spirit of God, which is a part of God, it's not man. And those two combined to form a soul. It's all accounted for. When they separate there is nothing left to live on.

If you were able to show that the Bible "teaches" that man can live apart from the body, we'd have two conflicting accounts that would present some issues that would have to be worked out.

In the Bible the words that are translated soul are used two ways. They are use concretely of a living being and abstractly of life. The words nephesh and psuche which are often translated soul are also often translated life. Look at Genesis 35:18 that you posted, if you change soul to life the passage makes perfect sense and yet doesn't indicate that the dead live on.

Revelation 6:9-11, Revelation is a book full of symbolism. It would first have to be established that the souls under the altar are literally alive. If it's symbolism what does it mean? The first question is why are they under the altar? Where is the altar? John was seeing Heaven and Earth so where was the altar? Also, in the beginning of chapter 4 John is told to he would see things that will happen in the future. So, the events of Rev. 6 would take place in the future from when John was writing. Do we have any way of knowing that those events have indeed already taken place, or are the still future? If we can't determine that then we can't say that the souls are there yet. Personally, it's my belief that the souls are a figure. They represent something and that they're not actually there.

24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? (Jn. 11:24-26 KJV)

The first thing we see here is that Jesus is talking about the Resurrection. He's not talking about a state between this life and the Resurrection. But, look at what He says of the one who believe, though he may die, yet shall he live: and whoever lives and believes shall never die. So, what we see is one who believes, then dies, then is raised, and that one, who is raised, shall never die. So, the one who shall never die is the one who is resurrected.

All of these passage are easily understood in a way the doesn't require one to believe that the dead live on after the body.
 
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ClementofA

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A gross misrepresentation of everything believed and taught by non-UR-ites.
Was Adam kicked out of Eden because God failed?
Were Sodom, Gomorrah etc. destroyed because God failed?
Did Israel spend 400 years in slavery in Egypt because God failed?
Did many Israelites former slaves in Egypt perish in the desert before they could enter the promised land because God failed?
Was Samson killed because God failed? etc. etc. etc.


Please see my response in the other thread re: Clement of Alexandria. Do you see any redemptive purpose in the following passages?
Genesis 7:21-22
21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
Genesis 19:24-25 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
Genesis 7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
Numbers 21:3 And the LORD hearkened to the voice of Israel, and delivered up the Canaanites; and they utterly destroyed them and their cities: and he called the name of the place Hormah.
Deuteronomy 20:16-17 But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth
17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:
Deuteronomy 7:2 And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:
Deuteronomy 32:25 The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs.
Jeremiah 13:11
11 For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.
...
Jeremiah 13:14
14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

Der Alter said: "Do you see any redemptive purpose in the following passages?"

In light of the following, why don't you?

Ecc 1:13 I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens: it is an experience of evil Elohim has given
to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

Clearly everything has a positive purpose to it: "to humble them".

BTW, is "hell" (Hades/Sheol, Tartarus, Gehenna, the lake of fire, the abyss, etc) not also "under the heavens".
 
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ClementofA

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You said...…….
"Of course the extent of "all" is determined by the context.

That being the case our discussion is now over as you have been shown to be in error. You cannot make "ALL" mean what YOU want it to mean which is what I have said all along!

Did you even read my post:

Of course the extent of "all" is determined by the context. For example:

1 Cor.15:25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.

How many will be "under His feet"? Just enemies or all:

1 Cor.15:27 For “He has put in subjection all under His feet.” But when it may be said that all has been put in subjection, it is evident that the One having put in subjection all to Him is excepted.

So there is only one exception to "all" to be "put...under his feet". Then God will be "in" "all", hence universal salvation:

1 Cor.15:28 And when all shall be subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all under him, that God may be all in all.

Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism

75 UR verses + 100 proofs + 150 reasons etc:
Web Online Help

213 Questions Without Answers:
Questions Without Answers
 
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ClementofA

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The Messiah said he was sent to Israel and to save "his people" Israel from their sins. Are we to be wiser than the Messiah?
The Misuse of the Words, "All," "Every," "Whoseoever," Etc.


Mt.1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Mt.2:6b ...my people Israel.

The "His people" referred to are Israel (2:6) of the context. IOW people like Judas Iscariot, the son of perdition, & the Pharisees who were blaspheming Christ & or the Holy Spirit, etc.

Mt.18:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. 24 And when he had begun to reckon...
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Furthermore, the context of Matthew 5:25-26, both before & after those 2 verses, is making references to Gehenna. Verses 21-26 have to do with anger & being reconciled & v.22 warns of Gehenna. In verses 27-30 the subject is adultery & v.30 warns regarding Gehenna.

Matt 5:25-26 Come to terms quickly with your adversary before it is too late and you are dragged into court, handed over to an officer, and thrown in jail. I assure you that you won't be free again until you have paid the last penny.

"They must pay (as GMac says) the uttermost farthing -- which is to say, they must tender the forgiveness of their brethren that is owed, the repentance and sorrow for sin that is owed, etc. Otherwise they do stay in prison with the tormenters. (their guilt? their hate? their own filthiness?) At last resort, if they still refuse to let go that nasty pet they've been stroking, they must even suffer the outer darkness. God will remove Himself from them to the extent that He can do so without causing their existence to cease. As Tom Talbot points out so well, no sane person of free will (and the child must be sane and informed to have freedom) could possibly choose ultimate horror over ultimate delight throughout the unending ages." Why affirm belief in Hell?
 
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ClementofA

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Need I say more
Robert Young was born in Edinburgh, Scotland, the son of John Young a book-binder on Parliament Square on the Royal Mile.[1] He served an apprenticeship in printing and simultaneously taught himself various oriental languages. He eventually joined the Free Church, and in 1847 he started his own business of printing and selling books, particularly of works related to Old Testament studies, with a shop at 5 North Bank Street off the Royal Mile.[2]
The Bauer, Danker, Arndt, Gingrich definition of Pas is about 5 pages long but here is the relative part.
πᾶς, πᾶσα, πᾶν gen. παντός, πάσης, παντός (dat. pl. πᾶσι and πᾶσιν vary considerably in the mss.; s. W-S. §5, 28; cp. Rob. 219–21; on the use of the art. s. B-D-F §275) (Hom. +).
⑤ everything belonging, in kind, to the class designated by the noun, every kind of, all sorts of, adj. for the words παντοδαπός and παντοῖος, which are lacking in our lit.: πᾶσα νόσος καὶ πᾶσα μαλακία Mt 4:23. γέμουσιν πάσης ἀκαθαρσίας they are full of all kinds of uncleanness 23:27 (Ar. 15, 6). πᾶσα ἐξουσία 28:18. ἀπὸ παντὸς ἔθνους from every kind of nation Ac 2:5. Cp. 7:22; 13:10ab; Ro 1:18, 29. πᾶσα ἐπιθυμία (evil) desire of every kind 7:8. ἐν παντὶ λόγῳ καὶ πάσῃ γνώσει 1 Cor 1:5b. πᾶν ἁμάρτημα every kind of sin 6:18. Cp. 2 Cor 7:1; 9:8bc; 10:5ab; Eph 1:3, 8, 21a; 4:19; 5:3; Phil 1:9; 2 Th 2:17. πᾶν ἔργον ἀγαθόν Tit 1:16; 3:1. Cp. 2:14; Hb 13:21. πᾶσα δόσις, πᾶν δώρημα Js 1:17 (W-S. §20, 11b). Cp. vs. 21; 1 Pt 2:1ab; Rv 8:7 al.—B. 919. Schmidt, Syn. IV, 540–54, s. ἕκαστος and ὅλος. DELG. M-M. EDNT. TW. Sv.[1]
[1] Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 784). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.


Quite an interesting source. Are you sure you want to rely on this?

Are you sure you want to rely on the myths & opinions of Christ rejecting Jews & Pharisees?

"Not giving heed to Jewish myths, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth." (Titus 1:14).

"Jesus warned His disciples to “watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducee's,” which was their false teaching (Matt. 16:6,12)."
"Not giving heed to Jewish myths, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth." (Titus 1:14).
Jesus said re the Pharisees: "...in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men." (Mt.15:8-9)
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" (2 Tim.3:16)
Jesus, speaking to Pharisees, said:
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
2 Timothy 4:4: And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Are you sure you want to rely on the likes of Kittel/TNDT & BDAG:

Do you also trust Kittel when it speaks of the remedy for Spirit blasphemy. Or when it refers to the reconciliation of Col.1:16,20 as including demonic beings? Do you also blindly trust everything in BDAG? Here is what BDAG says re Col.1:20:

"...found only in Christian writers...reconcile everything in his own person, i.e. the universe is to form a unity, which has its goal in Christ Col 1:20..." (A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament & Other Early Christian Literature (BDAG), 3rd edition, 2000, p.112).

Co.1:16 For by Him ***ALL*** was created that are in HEAVEN and that are on EARTH, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers.
All was created through Him and for Him.
20 and by Him to reconcile ***ALL*** to Himself, by Him, whether on EARTH or in HEAVEN, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

This states the purpose of Love Omnipotent's - divine will - in sending His Son:

For God did not send His Son into the world that He might judge the world, but that the world would be saved through Him. (Jn.3:17)

The IVA ("that") is used in Jn.3:17 above. BDAG says “In many cases purpose and result cannot be clearly differentiated, and hence ἵνα is used for the result that follows according to the purpose of the subj. or of God. As in Semitic and Gr-Rom. thought, purpose and result are identical in declarations of the *divine will*…” ἵνα — с греческого на все языки

The IVA also occurs in Phil.2:9-11:

Phil.2:9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that IN the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

What is the "world" in Jn.1:29; 3:17, 4:42 according to BDAG? According to BDAG by "world" in such verses is meant "humanity in general". Jesus Himself would be the only exception:

The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. (Jn.1:29)
They said to the woman, "We now believe not only because of your words; we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man truly is the Savior of the world. (Jn.4:42)
For God did not send His Son into the world that He might judge the world, but that the world would be saved through Him. (Jn.3:17)

And BDAG again, re Rom.5:18, is quoted in this commentary:

"Paul declares, however, that the effects of Christ's obedience are far greater for mankind than the effect of Adam's fall. For the third (5:15) and fourth (5:17) times in this chapter he makes explicit use of the 'qal wahomer' ("from minor to major") form of argument that is commonly used in rabbinic literature, expressed by "much more"...cf. earlier use at 5:9,10...And as in the case of the typology previously used (5:14), here, too, the form of the argument is antithetical. The grace of God extended to humanity in the event of Christ's death has abounded "for the many" (5:15b), which corresponds to the "all" of 5:12,18. The free gift given by God in Christ more than matches the sin of Adam and its effects; it exceeds it..."

"Contrasts are also seen in the results of the work of each. Adam's trespass or disobedience has brought condemnation (κατάκριμα, 5:18); through his act many were made sinners (5:19). Christ's "act of righteousness" results in "justification of life" (δικαίωσιν ζωῆς) for all (5:18). The term δικαίωσιν can be translated as "justification" (NIV, NRSV; but RSV has "acquittal") - the opposite of "condemnation". The word ζωῆς ("of life") is a genitive of result, providing the outcome of justification, so that the phrase may be rendered "justification resulting in life". 108

108. BDAG 250 (δικαίωσιν): "acquittal that brings life". The construction is variously called a "genitive of apposition", an "epexegetical genitive" or "genitive of purpose". Cf. BDF 92 (S166). The meaning is the same in each case: justification which brings life."

"The universality of grace in Christ is shown to surpass the universality of sin. Christ's "act of righteousness" is the opposite of Adam's "tresspass" and equivalent to Christ's
"obedience", which was fulfilled in his being obedient unto death (Phil 2:8). The results of Christ's righteous action and obedience are "justification resulting in life for all persons"...5:18...and "righteousness" for "many" (5:19). The term "many" in 5:19 is equivalent to "all persons", and that is so for four reasons: (1) the parallel in 5:18 speaks in its favor; (2) even as within 5:19 itself, "many were made sinners" applies to all mankind, so "many will be made righteous" applies to all; (3) the same parallelism appears in 5:15, at which "many" refers to "all"; and (4) the phrase "for many" is a Semitism which means "all", as in Deutero-Isaiah 52:14; 53:11-12; Mark...10:45; 14:24; Heb.12:15. The background for Paul's expression is set forth in Deutero-Isaiah, where it is said that "the righteous one"...the Lord's servant, shall make "many" to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their sins ...Isa.53:11..."

"It is significant, and even astounding, that justification is here said to be world-embracing. Nothing is said about faith as a prerequisite for justification to be effective, nor about faith's accepting it."

(Paul's Letter To The Romans: A Commentary, Arland J. Hultgren, Eerdmans, 2011, 804 pg, p.227, 229)
 
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How will the enemies of Jesus feel?
Matthew 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, * Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
* "That day" -the day of judgement.
The word of God says every knee will bow. It must be important because it is repeated 3 times.
1. Isaiah 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
2. Romans 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
3. Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;



Anyone can make the Bible say almost anything they want it to by quoting selective verses out-of-context as we see here.

Which recalls what you did here, twice:

Rubbish! You didn't say those exact words but you said the same thing

Only in your imagination of the fake quote of me you posted. Which BTW you failed to link to any post of mine with the context of my actual quote, so who knows what the context said since you purposely left it out. As you do again here:

"Where does Matthew 7:22-23 say "Depart from me and i will never love you anymore, but hate you with perfect hatred that has no end, as you deserve, as you roast alive in endless fires, being tormented for all eternity? I hate you so much that i wont even end your existence to mercifully put you out of your misery, but give you eternal life so i can cause you sorrow and pain without end."
Logical fallacy. Argument from silence. So because Jesus didn't say all this when He said "I never knew you" that to you means someday those He said "I never knew you" will be saved regardless?

Where does this say "Jesus will save all mankind even the unrighteous after death?

Are those who openly reject(ed) Jesus still considered His people?
Luke 19:26-27
26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Where did that say anyone will NEVER be saved, but sadisticlly tortured throughout endless eons?

It's incredibly - lame - for a Jesus you think will monstrously fry people for ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever...

If that were His belief, why is it entirely absent from Scripture? Why is Scripture instead - full - of lame warnings like the above, ALL of which are perfectly harmonious with the many passages that support universalism. By quoting Lk.19:26-27 you only shoot your own dogma in the foot...yet again.


Mt.1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Mt.2:6b ...my people Israel.

The "His people" referred to are Israel (2:6) of the context. IOW people like Judas Iscariot, the son of perdition, & the Pharisees who were blaspheming Christ & or the Holy Spirit, etc.

Mt.18:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. 24 And when he had begun to reckon...
34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Furthermore, the context of Matthew 5:25-26, both before & after those 2 verses, is making references to Gehenna. Verses 21-26 have to do with anger & being reconciled & v.22 warns of Gehenna. In verses 27-30 the subject is adultery & v.30 warns regarding Gehenna.

Matt 5:25-26 Come to terms quickly with your adversary before it is too late and you are dragged into court, handed over to an officer, and thrown in jail. I assure you that you won't be free again until you have paid the last penny.

"They must pay (as GMac says) the uttermost farthing -- which is to say, they must tender the forgiveness of their brethren that is owed, the repentance and sorrow for sin that is owed, etc. Otherwise they do stay in prison with the tormenters. (their guilt? their hate? their own filthiness?) At last resort, if they still refuse to let go that nasty pet they've been stroking, they must even suffer the outer darkness. God will remove Himself from them to the extent that He can do so without causing their existence to cease. As Tom Talbot points out so well, no sane person of free will (and the child must be sane and informed to have freedom) could possibly choose ultimate horror over ultimate delight throughout the unending ages." Why affirm belief in Hell?





Then of course we have.

Matthew 7:21-22
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

You would have us believe that verse 21 does not say
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;"
But instead means,
"everyone shall enter the kingdom of heaven righteous and unrighteous alike."

Did you miss verse 22 of the context which is speaking of what will happen on a certain "day", not eternal destinies? Nothing there states they cannot be saved at some point in the future beyond that "day".

By the same kind of logic you would have us believe that no one will be saved because all have been unrighteous & 1 Cor.6:9 says:

"Know ye not that THE UNRIGHTEOUS shall not inherit the kingdom of God?"

Remember this:

.
● 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
(9) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neitherfornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
(10) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
● Galatians 5:19-21
(19) Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
(20) Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
(21) Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall NOT inherit the kingdom of God.
● Ephesians 5:3-5
(3) But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
(4) Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
(5) For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
In three different epistles [books] Paul lists many people who do not have any inheritance in the kingdom of heaven. Please show a verse, two or more would be better, where Paul says “Oops I made a mistake, all these people will be reconciled even if they were sinful and unrighteous when they died."

Where does Paul ever qualify his warnings about who cannot enter the kingdom of God by saying "not until they repent & cease being unrighteous?" I can't seem to find that
qualification anywhere in Paul's writings. Do you suppose that Paul forgot to put that in and that is why unis today have to interject that into every one of Paul's warnings?


It's right in front of your eyes, if you read the next verse after those you quoted:

1 Cor 6:9-11

"Know ye not that THE UNRIGHTEOUS shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

"And SUCH WERE SOME OF YOU: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

As a commentator says:

"Wait a minute. If the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God, why does Paul say "and such were some of you?" If they were unrighteous, then how did they inherit the kingdom?"

"They had to be cleansed first, of course. As long as anyone is not cleansed, they have no part inside. But once cleansed, they they entered the kingdom."

So the passages you quoted are perfectly harmonious with universal salvation.


Heb.10:28 A man that hath set at nought Moses' law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Stoning to death is not a very sore or long lasting punishment. People suffered far worse deaths via the torture methods of the eternal hell believing Medieval Inquisitionists and the German Nazis under Hitler.

Therefore, if the writer of Hebrews believed that wicked, rebellious, Christ rejectors would be punished with something so monstrous as being endlessly annihilated or tormented, he would not have chosen to compare their punishment to something so lame as being stoned to death.

Clearly he did not believe Love Omnipotent is an unfeeling terminator machine or sadist who abandons forever the beings He created in His own image & likeness so easily.

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf
Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism
 
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Butch5

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WHY in the world do you think I would spend my time doing what you ask when we both know that you will not accept it?????

Matthew 24:42-44.......
“Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.” —Hebrews 11:5


Our Lord Jesus Christ taught that He might come back at any time, suddenly, imminently, without any notice or signs.

The Church will be removed from the earth BEFORE the appearing of the Antichrist (2nd Thessalonians 2:7,8).

There isn't one verse in the entire Bible which indicates that the Church will go through the Tribulation period.

In fact, if you want proof of a Pretribulation Rapture, you'll find it simply by studying the Bible.
If we compare Scriptures having to do with the Translation of the Church (i.e., the Rapture), with those passages relating to the setting up of Christ's Kingdom, one can only reasonably conclude that it would be utterly IMPOSSIBLE for these two events to occur simultaneously. Let's look at some of the comparisons:

  1. Matthew 25:31,32 - "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory. And before him shall be gathered all nations"
  2. Carefully notice that Jesus is going to sit upon His throne in Jerusalem when He returns, and the nations of earth will be gathered before Him to be judged. How can this fact be reconciled with 1st Thessalonians 4:17, which states that the saints will be caught up together to meet with the Lord in the air?


  3. Matthew 25:32 to 34 - "And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world."

  4. When the Lord returns to the earth at the Second Coming WITH His own, He is going to gather the nations of the earth together—separating the sheep from the goats (vs. 32), i.e., the righteous from the unrighteous. The sheep (saved) will simply enter the Kingdom, and the goats (unbelievers) be cast into everlasting fire. The test in this judgment is the treatment accorded by the nations to those whom Christ here calls "my brethren." These brethren are the Jewish remnant (i.e., the 144,000) who will have preached the Gospel of the kingdom to all nations during the Tribulation. Carefully notice, there is NO mention of a resurrection and the persons judged are the nations of the earth. In sharp contrast, according to 1st Corinthians 15:52 there WILL BE a resurrection at the time of the Rapture.
  5. htt:Jesusissavior.com/End%20of%20the%20World/pretrib_proof.htm
How does Jesus' telling His followers to be ready indicate a pre-trib Rapture? I'm not seeing anything here that would indicate a pre-trib rapture. Yes, Paul says believers will be caught up in the air with the Lord. Why couldn't they then simply return to the earth? Are you aware of the "parousia"? In ancient times when a king was returning victorious from battle the people would go out to meet the king before he got back into the city. This is what Paul is describing. As Jesus returns His people will go out to meet Him before He reaches the city. In this case He is coming in the sky so His people will go up into the sky to meet Him. However, when this event would take place in ancient times the people and the king went into the city. So, If this is what Paul is describing it happens when Christ returns victorious.

I don't see anything in 2 Tessalonians 2:7-8 that speaks of the church being taken out of the world. It doesn't even mention the church.

I disagree that there isn't any Scripture that speaks of the church going through the tribulation.

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. (Matt. 24:21-22 KJV)

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. (Rev. 14:9-12 KJV)
 
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• Saint John Chrysostom - Homily 9 (IX) on First Corinthians - (349-407 A.D.)

NPNF1-12 Homilies on First Corinthians. Homily IX.

"This is no small subject of enquiry which we propose, but rather about things which are of the first necessity and which all men enquire about; Namely, Whether Hell Fire Have Any End.
For That IT HATH NO END Christ Indeed Declared When He Said, "Their Fire Shall Not Be Quenched, And Their Worm Shall Not Die."




1200px-Johnchrysostom.jpg



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Jude1:3Contendforthefaith

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• Saint Lactantius - The Divine Institutes - Book 7 (VII.) Of a Happy Life - Chapter 21. (XXI.) - Of the Torments and Punishments of Souls. (240-320 A.D.)

ANF7 Lactantius Book VII. Of a Happy Life.


"But, however, The Sacred Writings Inform Us in what manner The Wicked Are To Undergo Punishment. For because they have committed sins in their bodies, they will again be clothed with flesh, that they may make atonement in their bodies; and yet it will not be that flesh with which God clothed man, like this our earthly body, But Indestructible, And Abiding For Ever,That It May Be Able To Hold Out Against Tortures And Everlasting Fire, the nature of which is different from this fire of ours, which we use for the necessary purposes of life, and which is extinguished unless it be sustained by the fuel of some material."


Lactantius.jpg



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• Saint Cyprian of Carthage - The Treatises of Cyprian - Treatise 5 (V) -
An Address to Demetrianus - 24. - (200-258 A.D.)

ANF5 The Treatises of Cyprian V


"An Ever-Burning Gehenna Will Burn Up The Condemned, and A Punishment Devouring With Living Flames; Nor Will There Be Any Source Whence At Any Time They May Have Either Respite Or End To Their Torments. Souls With Their Bodies Will Be Reserved In Infinite Tortures For Suffering."


0831cyprian-of-carthage0012.jpg



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To say that ----"The works of the devil are to persuade man to distrust and reject God" is EXACTLY what I said and that is SIN!!!

I will say again to you as I have the others...….There are NO Bible Scriptures that teach, suggest or say that everyone will be saved.

There are Scriptures that use the word "ALL" but that does not mean ALL will be save unless you make it say what YOU want it to say.

YOU as a Universalist must mis-use the words "ALL- EVERY- & WHOSOEVER" to make your false teaching work.

But some how, or on purpose you forget many Scriptures that say the opposite.

Let me give you an example...…….
This false application of using "ALL-EVERY-WHOSOEVER contradicts the Messiah’s statement and instruction to his disciples and that causes your theology to fall apart.........….

Matthew 15:24...…..
“But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel”.

Matthew 10:6......….
“Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel”.

The words for “all”, “every”, “whosoever” etc. are singular, NOT plural. Thus they refer to:

“all” the one [group],

or “the whole” of the class,

or “the entire” of the class. +

To grasp the use of this particular “all” in Greek and Hebrew, consider:

Deut. 28:10...….
“And ALL the peoples of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of Jehovah, and they shall be afraid of you"..

Here, “all the peoples of the earth” does NOT include Israel. In the same way, “go ye into all the world” is NOT inclusive of every race. Failure to understand this is the source of error in the modern popular evangelical teaching. Because of the importance of this matter, any person seeking truth can look through a concordance (Young’s is easiest) to satisfy themselves as to the right application of this word “pas” that is translated as “all” etc.. Some examples are given further on to show how to do this.
The Misuse of the Words, "All," "Every," "Whoseoever," Etc.

YOU of course are free to ignore this and keep right on believing what others have told you to believe.

I'm not here to play word games. Either you accept God is absolute, perfect and good or you deny it. If the latter, you sin in unbelief. That's just how God's made the logic of truth.

Look, a Roman triumph entails the vanquishing of all adversaries, the bowed knees and confessions of the kings and the destruction and tributes of the subject nations. Which is greater: the annihilation and torture of the defeated or their true conversion to your way?

Have a little faith. God's victory will be absolute, all the nations they will come, Forgive us Father for our foolish prideful ways.

And they sang the song of Moses, the bond-servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, "Great and marvelous are Your works, O Lord God, the Almighty; Righteous and true are Your ways, King of the nations! "Who will not fear, O Lord, and glorify Your name? For You alone are holy; For ALL THE NATIONS WILL COME AND WORSHIP BEFORE YOU, FOR YOUR RIGHTEOUS ACTS HAVE BEEN REVEALED." (Rev 15:3-4)

Doesn't get any clearer than that. The lake of fire delivers. God's judgments save. By the blood of the Lamb. Why does it hurt your elitist sensibilities? Please do some introspection.

 
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NO. The Bible says that the dead of all the ages will be resurrected after the 1000 year rule of Christ and then at the GWTJ they will be FOUND GUILTY because they are unrepentant sinners who rejected God and they will ALL be judged guility and thrown into the lake of fire for eternal torments.

What 'NO'? You're essentially saying they get 'robo-judged' by the angry volcano god. And now 'all' does mean all? Very droll.

Verily I tell you, if they are sentenced to eternal damnation then I take up my cross and follow them in the spirit of compassion. And you, will you hide behind a veneer of self-righteousness as a whited sepulchre?
 
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Super Kal

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When you are working so hard copying and pasting, do you actually think that anyone is going to read your work?????
i did. and i agree with him.
 
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a-lily-of-peace

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What 'NO'? You're essentially saying they get 'robo-judged' by the angry volcano god. And now 'all' does mean all? Very droll.

Verily I tell you, if they are sentenced to eternal damnation then I take up my cross and follow them in the spirit of compassion. And you, will you hide behind a veneer of self-righteousness as a whited sepulchre?
Please don’t follow anyone to eternal damnation, you can’t get yourself back out.
 
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Please don’t follow anyone to eternal damnation, you can’t get yourself back out.

And therein lies the problem: ME ME ME.

No room for self-sacrificial love in damnationist thinking, is there? All just 'rational self-interest'. Wake up sister, that's for the world, and the world is passing away (and before our very eyes atm).
 
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