Christian counseling and telling people to "just get a job."

cappycappy · May 27, 2020

Many churches offer job counseling. Church members who are unemployed, or under-employed, are often given job counsel (even if they don't request it, in some cases).

Here is a sample of the advice given: How to find a job, how to interview, or told to go back to school for more education or told to get a second job if one job isn't meeting their needs.

Here is the "golden nugget" of advice given every time: They are told to do "just any job" if they can't find something they want. They are told to apply at grocery stores, retail jobs, wait tables, etc.

During the recent covid crisis many people lost their jobs, including upper level professionals as well as small business owners. Many of them refused to look for another job doing just "anything". Then they complained and wanted sympathy for being unemployed. If you are one of these people who formerly had a white collar job or a small business, why can't you go work at Amazon warehouse for a while? They pay $15 an hour and up.

Why can't you do what you advised other people to do, which is JUST GET ANY JOB. Or apply at Kroger, Target or Wal Mart? Because all of these businesses are hiring. They are hiring by the thousands, literally. (If you want a list I can PM one to you.) Instacart is hiring 350,000 to be personal shoppers. Surely, if these jobs were good enough for these other people it would be good enough for you, right? Isn't it hypocritical to tell others to "just do any job" if you won't do the same???

Rene Loup · May 27, 2020

bèlla · May 27, 2020

Nomadland provides great insight about working at Amazon for those who rely on seasonal employment. It isn’t pretty. Not by a long shot. Injuries are common.

If you look for articles on Amazon’s delivery service you’ll hear similar stories and encounter hit and runs and the like.

~Bella

tampasteve · May 27, 2020

Sometimes it really does matter where you are going from and to. If an HR manager at Amazon is hiring for warehouse work and she is looking at the resume of a former small business CEO and a 25 year old with experience in warehouse work and waiting tables -which is she going to hire? Sometimes people can in fact experience themselves out of lower level jobs.

K Watt · May 27, 2020

cappycappy said:
Many churches offer job counseling. Church members who are unemployed, or under-employed, are often given job counsel (even if they don't request it, in some cases).

Here is a sample of the advice given: How to find a job, how to interview, or told to go back to school for more education or told to get a second job if one job isn't meeting their needs.

Here is the "golden nugget" of advice given every time: They are told to do "just any job" if they can't find something they want. They are told to apply at grocery stores, retail jobs, wait tables, etc.

During the recent covid crisis many people lost their jobs, including upper level professionals as well as small business owners. Many of them refused to look for another job doing just "anything". Then they complained and wanted sympathy for being unemployed. If you are one of these people who formerly had a white collar job or a small business, why can't you go work at Amazon warehouse for a while? They pay $15 an hour and up.

Why can't you do what you advised other people to do, which is JUST GET ANY JOB. Or apply at Kroger, Target or Wal Mart? Because all of these businesses are hiring. They are hiring by the thousands, literally. (If you want a list I can PM one to you.) Instacart is hiring 350,000 to be personal shoppers. Surely, if these jobs were good enough for these other people it would be good enough for you, right? Isn't it hypocritical to tell others to "just do any job" if you won't do the same???

Who are you talking about?

Isilwen · May 27, 2020

tampasteve said:
Sometimes it really does matter where you are going from and to. If an HR manager at Amazon is hiring for warehouse work and she is looking at the resume of a former small business CEO and a 25 year old with experience in warehouse work and waiting tables -which is she going to hire? Sometimes people can in fact experience themselves out of lower level jobs.

Yep, when I came to Florida from NY, I came down as an EMT with certification and had been making $11.51 in NJ. I applied for a job at McDonald's and they turned me down saying that I was overqualified.

Junia · May 27, 2020

the way i see it is this: surely what kind of job a person chooses is between them and God? if we dont want to hear them moaning and asking for sympathy we can just chnage the subject or walk away? how does it affect us?

so i think churches need to be careful how they advise. some people can just do any job but not everyone. if someone has a bad back or they are in their 50s, for example, they may be bettter off in a white collar office job- warehouse work is for the fit and strong

Junia · May 27, 2020

Isilwen said:
Yep, when I came to Florida from NY, I came down as an EMT with certification and had been making $11.51 in NJ. I applied for a job at McDonald's and they turned me down saying that I was overqualified.

and yes, there are that issue also

there are many examples as to why someone may not be able to just take any job

- single parents who need to fit in with childcare
- those who are fit to to do some work but have a health issue or disability which means the type of work they do will be limited to cwertian jobs. has to be said, most of the sedentry jobs seem to be the white collar ones mostly.
- those with a crimimal record

mama2one · May 27, 2020

cappycappy · May 27, 2020

Since I've worked for amazon, I disagree. It's not that bad of a job. And I worked in the warehouse - in my 50s so I'm not that young

cappycappy · May 27, 2020

LaBèlla said:
Nomadland provides great insight about working at Amazon for those who rely on seasonal employment. It isn’t pretty. Not by a long shot. Injuries are common.

If you look for articles on Amazon’s delivery service you’ll hear similar stories and encounter hit and runs and the like.

~Bella

I worked there last year in the warehouse. In my 50s. OK, that is the exact kind of job that Christians encourage other people to take or else they deserve to go without, starbe, etc.

cappycappy · May 27, 2020

[not as easy as you'd think
when I was in a car accident, develped fibromyalgia & could no longer work FT, I applied for "easy, lower pay jobs"

with a college degree and my best jobs held shortly after college, this is what happened at job interviews:

"you're overqualified"
this happened @ several job interviews!

finally, I took my college degree & better paying jobs OFF my resume in order to get an easy pt job]

Ok, but does that make it okay for you to tell other people to "just take any job?"

This is what I'm talking about. Not your own personal situation.

cappycappy · May 27, 2020

WrappedUpinHisLove3 said:
the way i see it is this: surely what kind of job a person chooses is between them and God? if we dont want to hear them moaning and asking for sympathy we can just chnage the subject or walk away? how does it affect us?

The problem is that many church people target those who are unemployed and offer unsolicited advice.

Or, the situation is like this: the person goes to their church asking for help (food, clothes, money) and the church refuses to give help, but then they keep contacting the person to ask them if they've found a job yet. If you aren't willing to offer anything, you don't have a right to contact someone and bug them about finding a job.

mama2one · May 27, 2020

Junia · May 27, 2020

cappycappy said:
The problem is that many church people target those who are unemployed and offer unsolicited advice.

Or, the situation is like this: the person goes to their church asking for help (food, clothes, money) and the church refuses to give help, but then they keep contacting the person to ask them if they've found a job yet. If you aren't willing to offer anything, you don't have a right to contact someone and bug them about finding a job.

What i meant with my post was why are those who judge the unempluyed so invested in whether they find a job or not?

bèlla · May 27, 2020

cappycappy said:
Or, the situation is like this: the person goes to their church asking for help (food, clothes, money) and the church refuses to give help, but then they keep contacting the person to ask them if they've found a job yet. If you aren't willing to offer anything, you don't have a right to contact someone and bug them about finding a job.

No church should dispense money indiscriminately. My prayer partner encountered a situation where her generosity was being taken for granted. The gentleman was sick and the church was no longer helping.

She took pity on him and provided groceries and paid his utility bills. I wasn’t aware until she mentioned it in casual conversation. She was 70 years old and using her social security payments.

At no point had he applied for government assistance. No food stamps. No utility help. He was content allowing her to fill in the gap. Which affected the other work she usually did for others. He always had excuses.

I gave her the information he needed and insisted she require him to do what he could to better his circumstances and not to provide any further help until he did. I knew he’d have documentation that was verifiable. Once she put her foot down he finally moved his own.

~Bella

cappycappy · May 27, 2020

LaBèlla said:
No church should dispense money indiscriminately. My prayer partner encountered a situation where her generosity was being taken for granted. The gentleman was sick and the church was no longer helping.
She took pity on him and provided groceries and paid his utility bills. I wasn’t aware until she mentioned it in casual conversation. She was 70 years old and using her social security payments.

At no point had he applied for government assistance. No food stamps. No utility help. He was content allowing her to fill in the gap. Which affected the other work she usually did for others. He always had excuses.

I gave her the information he needed and insisted she require him to do what he could to better his circumstances and not to provide any further help until he did. I knew he’d have documentation that was verifiable. Once she put her foot down he finally moved his own.

~Bella

I don't think churches should just pass out money to anyone who asks, either. That's not realistic. But I think they should at least offer a sack of groceries or something as a one time offer.

But if a church member asks them for help and they choose not to provide it, they don't have any business continuing to ask the person "have you found a job yet?" or judging them about their circumstances. They Just need to Zip It.

As for welfare and food stamps, I think it would be great if a church could give some information on how to apply for that or help people fill out the forms if they have trouble understanding them, but many churches are conservative and anti-welfare, and don't believe in someone using government benefits.

Your story about this man is anecdotal, of course - not everyone is going to become permanently dependent on help or generosity. Many, many people feel ashamed or embarrassed about asking for help.

cappycappy · May 27, 2020

WrappedUpinHisLove3 said:
What i meant with my post was why are those who judge the unempluyed so invested in whether they find a job or not?

Well, I do not know. Because an unemployed person's problems are their own and don't affect anyone else in the church. But I suspect they don't like it when members can't put money in the collection plate, and that's the only thing I can think of as to why they judge and/or hassle these people who can't find work

bèlla · May 27, 2020

cappycappy said:
I don't think churches should just pass out money to anyone who asks, either. That's not realistic. But I think they should at least offer a sack of groceries or something as a one time offer.

That would depend on their resources. Some congregations are more affluent than others or have a large membership which enables them to extend their giving. Unless the church runs a pantry few would maintain food stores due to spoilage.

But if a church member asks them for help and they choose not to provide it, they don't have any business continuing to ask the person "have you found a job yet?" or judging them about their circumstances. They Just need to Zip It.

They may have a different conviction and other reasons for following up that aren’t obvious to the client.

~Bella

cappycappy · May 27, 2020

LaBèlla said:
They may have a different conviction and other reasons for following up that aren’t obvious to the client.

~Bella

They don't have a right to follow up with that person, that person is not their "client". It's being nosy to follow up with someone to ask them what they're doing in their life.

Christian counseling and telling people to "just get a job."

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