Hillsongs

dms1972 said:

I have listened to a lot of Hillsongs worship, and admit I like a lot of their stuff, and have sometime posted videos on these forums - even though I would say I am unsure of where I am at spiritually at the moment. But for a while I have been aware of controversies which I have also wondered is some of that from the devil attacking and trying to discredit a church. In my current state I find it hard to discern clearly - I just look at what others are saying.
I have noticed how some churches seem to be emulating this focus on worship - almost making that the centre of the service. Its seems clear to me that Hillsongs seem to believe that God is at work in the worship - and I don't say that isn't the case, or that it cannot be the case. But what place should be given to singing in a service.

Any thoughts on Hillsongs.


On another issue - years ago I went to a christian counsellor for a number of sessions - I would feel an initial sense of relief when I would arrive for a session but then I would never get over the hurdle of turning my will over to the Lord, which the counsellor insisted on. I would sometime feel I was almost going to fly at the counsellor on some occasions - which he said was to do with the devil. He gave me a book by Ulf Ekman - Pastor of Livets Ord church in Sweden, I think (correct me if I am wrong) that was a Word of Faith church - but Ulf Ekman then converted to Catholicism. Well my difficulties related to philosophies and some new age thinking in the past, that I was free from for a bit, but went back into. So I don't know if that sort of word of faith approach is suitable for me.

Any thoughts on Ulf Ekman?

Are there variations in the Word of Faith movement?

Click to expand...

Hillsongs used to enjoy a dominant market share in pentecostal Christian music in the late 90s and early 2000s.

Now we have more competition, Bethel, Elevation etc.

dms1972 said:

I have listened to a lot of Hillsongs worship, and admit I like a lot of their stuff, and have sometime posted videos on these forums - even though I would say I am unsure of where I am at spiritually at the moment. But for a while I have been aware of controversies which I have also wondered is some of that from the devil attacking and trying to discredit a church. In my current state I find it hard to discern clearly - I just look at what others are saying.
I have noticed how some churches seem to be emulating this focus on worship - almost making that the centre of the service. Its seems clear to me that Hillsongs seem to believe that God is at work in the worship - and I don't say that isn't the case, or that it cannot be the case. But what place should be given to singing in a service.

Any thoughts on Hillsongs.


On another issue - years ago I went to a christian counsellor for a number of sessions - I would feel an initial sense of relief when I would arrive for a session but then I would never get over the hurdle of turning my will over to the Lord, which the counsellor insisted on. I would sometime feel I was almost going to fly at the counsellor on some occasions - which he said was to do with the devil. He gave me a book by Ulf Ekman - Pastor of Livets Ord church in Sweden, I think (correct me if I am wrong) that was a Word of Faith church - but Ulf Ekman then converted to Catholicism. Well my difficulties related to philosophies and some new age thinking in the past, that I was free from for a bit, but went back into. So I don't know if that sort of word of faith approach is suitable for me.

Any thoughts on Ulf Ekman?

Are there variations in the Word of Faith movement?

Click to expand...

I know many Christians who have had issues with them.

I personally don't listen to them.

If you want to, you can find similar artists who sound like them!

I love Elevation Worship. They're literally my favorite.

dms1972 said:

I have listened to a lot of Hillsongs worship, and admit I like a lot of their stuff, and have sometime posted videos on these forums - even though I would say I am unsure of where I am at spiritually at the moment. But for a while I have been aware of controversies which I have also wondered is some of that from the devil attacking and trying to discredit a church. In my current state I find it hard to discern clearly - I just look at what others are saying.
I have noticed how some churches seem to be emulating this focus on worship - almost making that the centre of the service. Its seems clear to me that Hillsongs seem to believe that God is at work in the worship - and I don't say that isn't the case, or that it cannot be the case. But what place should be given to singing in a service.

Any thoughts on Hillsongs.

Click to expand...

We turn to scripture to hear the Lord, to know the Lord, and not really to music or preachers, ideally.

Since Hillsong United has been around doing music for a long while with many composers, hundreds of millions of Christians have heard their music.

But the number that have attended a Hillsong church would be in contrast only in the thousands to tens of thousands. See?

That's a ratio of only 1 in 1,000 or 1 in 10,000 of those who have heard their songs then ever attending a Hillsong church or hearing a sermon from them.

So, we know their music, and have never attended one of their churches, generally, most all of us.

A year or 2 back someone was writing to attack the Hillsong songs, suggesting they lead people to believe in the Hillsong church theology(?!) -- a leap of fear that makes no logical sense.

We have all sung Amazing Grace, but that doesn't mean we've joined the Anglican church. See? It's interesting that Amazing Grace was used by Baptists and Methodists to help in their evangelizing. They weren't converting people to being Anglican in particular, but to being Christian.

I grew up singing songs like Amazing Grace and other classic old songs, and as it happened I also read through the bible twice by age 13, partly because I was a reader (read all the time).

Because of this background, I react when any song has a lyric that contradicts something in the bible, and dislike the song.

There are many popular Hillsong songs, and I only know a small number of the hundreds there are, about 6-8 I guess. And while none of these I know well have any real problems in their lyrics, there are no blanket statements about hundreds of songs composed by a variety of authors.

These songs tell us very little about Hillsong church theology. I did listen to one full Hillsong service over the internet once, because someone here at CF was challenging Hillsong once a year or 2 back, and the service was pretty innocent, though with a guest pastor that Sunday.

Hillsong has such a wide array of musicians and talent behind their music, they have so many good songs.

But I think we should never rely on songs, nor preachers, nor churches even finally, to know the Lord.

Every pastor is different, every song different. But they aren't the Way.

Only Jesus Christ Himself is the Way....

We want to rely on His Words -- The Words of Jesus Christ our Lord in the gospels -- reading with a true listening. That's how we know the right Way.

dms1972 said:

Victor's Crown - Hillsong

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dms1972 said:

I have listened to a lot of Hillsongs worship, and admit I like a lot of their stuff, and have sometime posted videos on these forums - even though I would say I am unsure of where I am at spiritually at the moment. But for a while I have been aware of controversies which I have also wondered is some of that from the devil attacking and trying to discredit a church. In my current state I find it hard to discern clearly - I just look at what others are saying.
I have noticed how some churches seem to be emulating this focus on worship - almost making that the centre of the service. Its seems clear to me that Hillsongs seem to believe that God is at work in the worship - and I don't say that isn't the case, or that it cannot be the case. But what place should be given to singing in a service.

Any thoughts on Hillsongs.


On another issue - years ago I went to a christian counsellor for a number of sessions - I would feel an initial sense of relief when I would arrive for a session but then I would never get over the hurdle of turning my will over to the Lord, which the counsellor insisted on. I would sometime feel I was almost going to fly at the counsellor on some occasions - which he said was to do with the devil. He gave me a book by Ulf Ekman - Pastor of Livets Ord church in Sweden, I think (correct me if I am wrong) that was a Word of Faith church - but Ulf Ekman then converted to Catholicism. Well my difficulties related to philosophies and some new age thinking in the past, that I was free from for a bit, but went back into. So I don't know if that sort of word of faith approach is suitable for me.

Any thoughts on Ulf Ekman?

Are there variations in the Word of Faith movement?

Click to expand...

Hillsong and their ilk.
The focus of worship should always be God the Father and Lord Jesus the Son. My issue with much modern (and plenty of old style) music and singing is the lack of content. It seems that there is a good deal of singing about praise and worship. When you look at the words - meh. If you met up with a friend who had a newborn baby, would you start saying "praise you baby" repetitively? They'd drag you off to the funny farm. 10,000 reasons for example. There's a whole lot about what we should do. Not nearly as much actual praising. Multiply that by countless repetitive "worship" songs and you can see why old hymns updated are so popular.

I believe that its not necessary or helpful to identify with any particular movement. After 49 years in the Lord, I have found no need to identify as anything other than born again. Putting God in a theological box is unedifying. If God had wanted us to have systematic theology, He would have produced an instruction manual with everything laid out and easy to follow. God wants relationship with family, not with servants. Yes, we serve God, but preferably because we want to, not out of fear. We may well start out like that, but God reveals Himself to us as we seek Him. He is nothing like most Christians think He is. He's not out to crush people. Lord Jesus is the "Good Samaritan" who rescues the bleeding and dying inside. You can serve that kind of Lord gladly.

dms1972 said:

Sometimes to get started in prayer, I begin with "Praise you Jesus" and repeat that several times. I know this might not be right, I have always wondered how to praise God, and that to be honest is the only way I know, maybe I should ask God But can you tell me or explain to me how praise is done? What is praise to God? I have listened to seasoned ministers and they sometimes say "Praise you Jesus.", or "praise be to God."

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Juan Carlos Ortiz put it like this. Praise is a gift that comes up to heaven and delights God's heart. Just saying "praise God" is like a nicely gift wrapped box. Except when you open it, it's empty. The best way to praise is to thank. Be specific. We have far more to thank God for than we have hours in the day. Thank Jesus for dying and paying the price for all your sin is a good start.

Praise is thanking God for what He has done. Worship is declaring who God is. When we declare that Lord Jesus is King of Kings and Lord of Lords, that is worship. I sleep pretty well, but if I'm struggling I start thanking Lord Jesus for things that He has provided. Even the trees on the nature strip are gifts from Him. It's not long before I'm out like a light.

Aussie Pete said:

Hillsong and their ilk.
The focus of worship should always be God the Father and Lord Jesus the Son. My issue with much modern (and plenty of old style) music and singing is the lack of content. It seems that there is a good deal of singing about praise and worship. When you look at the words - meh. If you met up with a friend who had a newborn baby, would you start saying "praise you baby" repetitively? They'd drag you off to the funny farm. 10,000 reasons for example. There's a whole lot about what we should do. Not nearly as much actual praising. Multiply that by countless repetitive "worship" songs and you can see why old hymns updated are so popular.

I believe that its not necessary or helpful to identify with any particular movement. After 49 years in the Lord, I have found no need to identify as anything other than born again. Putting God in a theological box is unedifying. If God had wanted us to have systematic theology, He would have produced an instruction manual with everything laid out and easy to follow. God wants relationship with family, not with servants. Yes, we serve God, but preferably because we want to, not out of fear. We may well start out like that, but God reveals Himself to us as we seek Him. He is nothing like most Christians think He is. He's not out to crush people. Lord Jesus is the "Good Samaritan" who rescues the bleeding and dying inside. You can serve that kind of Lord gladly.

Click to expand...

@dms1972 and Aussie Pete -- The Hillsong songs do often tend to be strong on worship of God the Father, and Jesus Christ our Savior. That's good, because that worship/praise itself is instructed in scripture.

It's exactly what we are supposed to do in song!

But at least some of the most popular songs have a good theological heft also. Have a look.

Lyrics analyzed by scripture below:


Lyrics: "What a Beautiful Name"

You were the Word at the beginning (John 1:1)
One With God the Lord Most High (John 1:1)
Your hidden glory in creation (John 1:3)
Now revealed in You our Christ

What a beautiful Name it is
What a beautiful Name it is
The Name of Jesus Christ my King (Revelation 19:16)
What a beautiful Name it is
Nothing compares to this
What a beautiful Name it is
The Name of Jesus

You didn't want heaven without us
So Jesus, You brought heaven down (Mark 1:15, Luke 17:21)
My sin was great, Your love was greater (John 15:13)
What could separate us now

What a wonderful Name it is
What a wonderful Name it is
The Name of Jesus Christ my King
What a wonderful Name it is
Nothing compares to this
What a wonderful Name it is
The Name of Jesus
What a wonderful Name it is
The Name of Jesus

How sweet is your name, Lord, how good You are
Love to sing in the name of the Lord, love to sing for you all?
Death could not hold You, the veil tore before You (Matthew 27:51)
You silenced the boast, of sin and grave (Romans 6:9, Romans 6:6)
The heavens are roaring, the praise of Your glory
For You are raised to life again (Matthew 28:6, Romans 6:4)
You have no rival, You have no equal (Rev 19:16)
Now and forever, Our God reigns
Yours is the Kingdom, Yours is the glory (Rev 22:13, 16)
Yours is the Name, above all names
What a powerful Name it is
What a powerful Name it is
The Name of Jesus Christ my King
What a powerful Name it is
Nothing can stand against
What a powerful Name it is
The Name of Jesus

You have no rival, You have no equal
Now and forever, Our God reigns
Yours is the Kingdom, Yours is the glory
Yours is the Name, above all names
What a powerful Name it is
What a powerful Name it is
The Name of Jesus Christ my King
What a powerful Name it is
Nothing can stand against
What a powerful Name it is
The Name of Jesus
What a powerful Name it is
The Name of Jesus
What a powerful Name it is
The Name of Jesus
What A Beautiful Name - Hillsong Worship Lyrics and Chords | Worship Together


Are there verses anyone wants to examine further?

I don't conclude much from one song, except about that one, individual song.

There isn't really much blanket statements to say about a collection as huge and diverse as the hundreds of Hillsong songs though.

re: the songs that talk about Me, Myself and I kind of thing- is that always bad, though? I do agree that the church needs a balance and it wpuld be wrong if they are all "me focused" type songs, as it were, but as regards the context of the "me" stuff, i dont see the lyrics as being all that terrible

eg i think this is a hillsongs song:

You unravel me
with a melody
you surround me with a song
pf deliverance from my enemies
until all my fears are gone

I'm no longer a slave to fear
i a am a child of God....




OK, so it is "Me-focused" but think about it for a minute. we have a huge probloem in our churches today. as christians we should know who we are in Jesus and how loved we are by God. and many of us will say "yeah i know Jesus loves me." but do we really believe it? in a way that transforms us

so many of us believers are struggling from the same hang ups as those without Jesus. and i include myaefl amongst them, so this is not condemnation or shaming. it is what i have observed. as christians we are not immune to hurt and pain. and we need to know how Jesus sees us to help us overcome our wounds and emotional issues.

church is a hospital for the spirtituall;y sick. if songs like th eone i posted above help remind peole who they really are, are those songs so bad?


one thing i do love about the latter 2 types of psalm is usually the psalm ends up at pointing how good God is and how trustworthy. we don;'t leave at our needs. the bottom line, the final say is, God is good and to be worshipped.

Hillsong is Pentecostal and at times that will show up in one of their songs. The vast majority, however, are praise and worship and centered around the areas of theology where almost all Christians agree.

You will find sites out there that are extremely critical. I looked into a couple of their complaints and concluded that they were taking things not just out of context but twisting what happened to put it in the worst light they could. So those sites lost credibility with me.

While not charismatic or Pentecostal, I have attended worship events by Hillsong United, Hillsong Worship, Bethel, Passion, Elevation and many others. Hillsong United and Worship (since you asked about them) played sets of between 12-20 songs which run a variety of joyous praise, thoughtful gospel based worship, some shallower fun songs, and all with a bit of preaching mixed in. I would have found most of the songs suitable for a church worship (not the shallower fun ones) but all of them were great in a long worship event and all added something different to the evening. I would never have known they were Pentecostal because the songs and preaching were based around the essentials areas of faith common to Christians universally. Perhaps a few theological quibbles here and there but nothing major.

I will say with Bethel while most of their songs are written to be used by the church despite denominations, in their event it was crystal clear they are charismatic and believe all the sign gifts are still active.

My final take is they are fine to listen to and use in worship, just filter out anything that doesn't align with your specific denominational beliefs. Which you should do with any song writer.

my only issue with one of the song is a certain line but it isnt a doctrinal matter , i just think it badly expressed

"I give mysefl to folow everything i believe in
i surrender

Saviour, He can move the mountains
our good i smighty to save....."

nothing wrong doctrinally- i think it abeautiful song actually. but jsut that line "i give mysefl to follow everything i believe in.....seems badly written and clumsy... but maybr the issue is with me- if i were really worshipping as i should do, i would not be operating in a critical spirit, would i?

i guess the holy spirit needs to do a work in me there!

Aussie Pete said:

Hillsong and their ilk.
The focus of worship should always be God the Father and Lord Jesus the Son. My issue with much modern (and plenty of old style) music and singing is the lack of content. It seems that there is a good deal of singing about praise and worship. When you look at the words - meh. If you met up with a friend who had a newborn baby, would you start saying "praise you baby" repetitively? They'd drag you off to the funny farm. 10,000 reasons for example. There's a whole lot about what we should do. Not nearly as much actual praising. Multiply that by countless repetitive "worship" songs and you can see why old hymns updated are so popular.

I believe that its not necessary or helpful to identify with any particular movement. After 49 years in the Lord, I have found no need to identify as anything other than born again. Putting God in a theological box is unedifying. If God had wanted us to have systematic theology, He would have produced an instruction manual with everything laid out and easy to follow. God wants relationship with family, not with servants. Yes, we serve God, but preferably because we want to, not out of fear. We may well start out like that, but God reveals Himself to us as we seek Him. He is nothing like most Christians think He is. He's not out to crush people. Lord Jesus is the "Good Samaritan" who rescues the bleeding and dying inside. You can serve that kind of Lord gladly.

Click to expand...

i must admit, i dont see the need for a lot of repetition. having said that, i have been told that in the way psalms would have been sung, there was often repetition. we tend to forget, seeing thm in the Bible that they were SONGS.

WolfGate said:

I will say with Bethel while most of their songs are written to be used by the church despite denominations, in their event it was crystal clear they are charismatic and believe all the sign gifts are still active.

My final take is they are fine to listen to and use in worship, just filter out anything that doesn't align with your specific denominational beliefs. Which you should do with any song writer.

Click to expand...

I agree, the way Bethel write their songs, the lyrics are evident that they believe the sign gifts in the 4 gospels and Acts continue to be active now.

WrappedUpinHisLove3 said:

i must admit, i dont see the need for a lot of repetition. having said that, i have been told that in the way psalms would have been sung, there was often repetition. we tend to forget, seeing thm in the Bible that they were SONGS.

Click to expand...

What bothers me is lack of content. Compare Psalm 103 with 10,000 reasons. "Speak to yourselves in psalms, hymns and spirituals songs." I've listened to many songs that talk about praise or worship but never get to do any. It bugs me. People get stirred emotionally but much else. Early Hillsong was different. "Jesus, what a wonderful name", Darlene Czech's songs, some of Reuben Morgan's and certainly Geoff Bullock. Not nearly so much now.

The other thing that bugs me is the rarity of the name of Jesus being included in songs. It's the name above all names, the name that drives out Satan, the name that strikes terror into evil spirits and gladdens the hearts of those who are born again. Songs are for edification, not entertainment.

WrappedUpinHisLove3 said:

re: the songs that talk about Me, Myself and I kind of thing- is that always bad, though? I do agree that the church needs a balance and it wpuld be wrong if they are all "me focused" type songs, as it were, but as regards the context of the "me" stuff, i dont see the lyrics as being all that terrible

eg i think this is a hillsongs song:

You unravel me
with a melody
you surround me with a song
pf deliverance from my enemies
until all my fears are gone

I'm no longer a slave to fear
i a am a child of God....




OK, so it is "Me-focused" but think about it for a minute. we have a huge probloem in our churches today. as christians we should know who we are in Jesus and how loved we are by God. and many of us will say "yeah i know Jesus loves me." but do we really believe it? in a way that transforms us

so many of us believers are struggling from the same hang ups as those without Jesus. and i include myaefl amongst them, so this is not condemnation or shaming. it is what i have observed. as christians we are not immune to hurt and pain. and we need to know how Jesus sees us to help us overcome our wounds and emotional issues.

church is a hospital for the spirtituall;y sick. if songs like th eone i posted above help remind peole who they really are, are those songs so bad?


one thing i do love about the latter 2 types of psalm is usually the psalm ends up at pointing how good God is and how trustworthy. we don;'t leave at our needs. the bottom line, the final say is, God is good and to be worshipped.

Click to expand...

"Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith". It is supposed to be a time of praise and worship. We sing a song that includes the line, "forget about yourself and concentrate on Him and worship Him". Way to go in my view.

There is a place for knowing who we are in Christ. Our small fellowship teaches and preaches that. When we see the magnificence of Lord Jesus and what He has won for us, we are edified and built up.

Halbhh said:

@dms1972 and Aussie Pete -- The Hillsong songs do often tend to be strong on worship of God the Father, and Jesus Christ our Savior. That's good, because that worship/praise itself is instructed in scripture.

It's exactly what we are supposed to do in song!

But at least some of the most popular songs have a good theological heft also. Have a look.

Lyrics analyzed by scripture below:

Lyrics: "What a Beautiful Name"

You were the Word at the beginning (John 1:1)
One With God the Lord Most High (John 1:1)
Your hidden glory in creation (John 1:3)
Now revealed in You our Christ

What a beautiful Name it is
What a beautiful Name it is
The Name of Jesus Christ my King (Revelation 19:16)
What a beautiful Name it is
Nothing compares to this
What a beautiful Name it is
The Name of Jesus

You didn't want heaven without us
So Jesus, You brought heaven down (Mark 1:15, Luke 17:21)
My sin was great, Your love was greater (John 15:13)
What could separate us now

What a wonderful Name it is
What a wonderful Name it is
The Name of Jesus Christ my King
What a wonderful Name it is
Nothing compares to this
What a wonderful Name it is
The Name of Jesus
What a wonderful Name it is
The Name of Jesus

How sweet is your name, Lord, how good You are
Love to sing in the name of the Lord, love to sing for you all?
Death could not hold You, the veil tore before You (Matthew 27:51)
You silenced the boast, of sin and grave (Romans 6:9, Romans 6:6)
The heavens are roaring, the praise of Your glory
For You are raised to life again (Matthew 28:6, Romans 6:4)
You have no rival, You have no equal (Rev 19:16)
Now and forever, Our God reigns
Yours is the Kingdom, Yours is the glory (Rev 22:13, 16)
Yours is the Name, above all names
What a powerful Name it is
What a powerful Name it is
The Name of Jesus Christ my King
What a powerful Name it is
Nothing can stand against
What a powerful Name it is
The Name of Jesus

You have no rival, You have no equal
Now and forever, Our God reigns
Yours is the Kingdom, Yours is the glory
Yours is the Name, above all names
What a powerful Name it is
What a powerful Name it is
The Name of Jesus Christ my King
What a powerful Name it is
Nothing can stand against
What a powerful Name it is
The Name of Jesus
What a powerful Name it is
The Name of Jesus
What a powerful Name it is
The Name of Jesus
What A Beautiful Name - Hillsong Worship Lyrics and Chords | Worship Together


Are there verses anyone wants to examine further?

I don't conclude much from one song, except about that one, individual song.

There isn't really much blanket statements to say about a collection as huge and diverse as the hundreds of Hillsong songs though.

Click to expand...

Some of the older Hillsong stuff was fine as I've said elsewhere. Much of it now is blah. Don't get me wrong, plenty of old hymns were no better. Some should be taken out and shot. But if people are depending on the gospel according to Hillsong, they'll be missing out big time on vital truth.

Aussie Pete said:

The other thing that bugs me is the rarity of the name of Jesus being included in songs. It's the name above all names, the name that drives out Satan, the name that strikes terror into evil spirits and gladdens the hearts of those who are born again. Songs are for edification, not entertainment.

Click to expand...

I'm sorry, this is just factually incorrect. I went and looked at the lyrics of Hillsong Worship's most recent album. Every single song specifically references God, Jesus, and/or the Holy Ghost. Hillsong United's latest release had almost every song doing the same, and the couple that did not use a specific name were praise songs addressed directly to our God and in context it is clear that the "You" is our Lord.

I do agree there are a lot of songs out there that are very unclear in who the song is about because they never specifically say. Those songs show up a lot in Contemporary Christian Music but also in some songs written by groups more aligned with Praise and Worship. Through the years I've spent a lot of time evaluating songs for suitable use in worship and every group/song writer has some I would not use. Hillsong has some as well that I would not use, but it usually isn't because the focus of their worship isn't clear.

Aussie Pete said:

Some of the older Hillsong stuff was fine as I've said elsewhere. Much of it now is blah. Don't get me wrong, plenty of old hymns were no better. Some should be taken out and shot. But if people are depending on the gospel according to Hillsong, they'll be missing out big time on vital truth.

Click to expand...

Right, no one should rely on a few song, or a preacher, or a pope, or a doctrine, instead of Christ. We are His if we listen to and follow Him, instead of men.

This means of course:
we do not follow doctrines (as if a doctrine replaces the Word),
nor sermons from some favorite preacher (as if a preacher can replace Christ),
nor the theology of some theologian (as if the Word can be reduced)
nor a church, nor a pope, nor a king, nor a mortal man

Those would all be following men. Putting our faith in men (which is explicitly instructed against in scripture).

But instead we listen to Christ, Jesus, == His words to us in the 4 gospels, listened to with a full listening ("ears that hear"), taken to heart, kept in us, and followed.