- Jun 5, 2017
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Maybe you can attempt an answer at the following post of mine that your - SDA - sister refused to even read, let alone respond to or refute:
Get some rest, refreshed & return if the Lord wills.
Then maybe you'll want to address the post you said you didn't read:
Do you also find it funny that for all your long worded posts---still not one scripture that says anyone DOES NOT come out of the lake of fire unto life eternal with Jeus.
And why should Love Almighty be required to use your exact words revealing salvation to those in the LOF when He has already done so in many different ways. It's a ridiculous requirement, as if not being able to provide those exact words somehow defeats universalism. Nonsense. And in the above paragraph i turned it around on you, using your own words against your own argument. Lol, eh?
Easy to say. But can you prove it?
Thus sayeth you. Where is the Scripture that says "God has us go through our refining fires in this life---not after death."
Nonsense. There is a need to be saved now. Torments in the lake of fire await the wicked.
Heb.10:28 A man that hath set at nought Moses' law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Stoning to death is not a very sore or long lasting punishment. People suffered far worse deaths via the torture methods of the eternal hell believing Medieval Inquisitionists and the German Nazis under Hitler.
Therefore, if the writer of Hebrews believed that wicked, rebellious, Christ rejectors would be punished with something so monstrous as being endlessly annihilated or tormented, he would not have chosen to compare their punishment to something so lame as being stoned to death.
Clearly he did not believe Love Omnipotent is an unfeeling terminator machine or sadist who abandons forever the beings He created in His own image & likeness so easily.
Scripture? Or opinion?
Outside the gates means outside the gates. Not what you added to the words of God.
Not till they're washed clean. Just like anyone inside.
When we are told the wicked are outside the New Jerusalem, that does not mean they have recieved an endless Hitler nuking of them into unending oblivion after they were tormented to death in the fiery lake. Rather it means they are still there, alive.
I never read that verse in the Bible "For God will have destroiyed all that in the lake of fire." Where is that, in John's nonexistent Revelation Part II?
Why you can not understand that when sin dies, all death dies and Love Omnipotent becomes "all in all" (1 Cor.15:22-28), i.e. universalism happens.
mmksparbud's chapter 6 verse 66 or John's nonexistent Revelation Part II?
Scripture says there - are - wicked outside the city. So you should understand Rev.21:4 to be referring to what occurs within the New Jerusalem only, where God's people shall be, which is what the immediate context is talking about.
Rev.22:14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by its gates. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
Death in the Scriptures can refer to when a person's body dies, such as when Jesus died & was thereafter put in a tomb. It can also refer to death figuratively, or spiritual death, such as when Jesus says "Let the dead bury the dead". So, probably, the "second death" refers to one or both of those types of death, & the power they have. In any case, since death will be abolished & God become "all in all", as Scripture states in 1 Cor.15:22-28, we have good reason to believe that no one will remain in death forever, whether it's death or second death.
Fortunately no "eternal death" ever appears in the Sacred Scriptures (66 books of the Bible). To the contrary, death will be abolished (1 Cor.15:26).
"Just as surely as the abolition of slavery entails freedom for those formerly enslaved, the abolition of death entails life for those formerly dead."
1 Cor.15:25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.
How many will be "under His feet"? Just enemies or all:
1 Cor.15:27 For “He has put in subjection all under His feet.” But when it may be said that all has been put in subjection, it is evident that the One having put in subjection all to Him is excepted.
So there is only one exception to "all" to be "put...under his feet". Then God will be "in" "all", hence universal salvation:
1 Cor.15:28 And when all shall be subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all under him, that God may be all in all.
Everyone will eventually have "life":
Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."
Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."
Paul makes a parallel between "the many" who were condemned & sinners and those who will be justified & constituted just.
“In Romans 5, the justification is co-extensive with the condemnation. Since all share in one, all share in the other. If only a certain portion of the human race had partaken of the sin of Adam, only a certain portion would partake of the justification of Christ. But St. Paul affirms all to have been involved in one, and all to be included in the other.”
After people are judged & cast into the lake of fire (LOF) there will be a new heavens & earth (Rev.20, 21). The dwelling place of God's people will be the New Jerusalem (Rev.21:2-3) & therein - there - will be no more death or pain. Yet death will remain & not be abolished in the lake of fire, for torments there will continue "into the ages of the ages" (Rev.14:11; 20:10). At the same time, "into the ages of the ages", the saints will reign (Rev.21:5). Who would they be reigning over if no one exists in the LOF? How could pain be no more everywhere while the wicked are still being tormented in the LOF at the same time the Scriptures say the saints are reigning? How could death be abolished everywhere while the second death still continues? Impossible. Neither could Love Omnipotent be "all in all" (1 Cor.15:28) while any of the wicked are still wicked and in pain being tormented.
1 Cor.15:22 For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified." 23 Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ's in His presence;" 24 thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power." 25 For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy is being abolished: death. 27 For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him." 28 Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all.)" (CLV)
And the seventh messenger did sound, and there came great voices in the heaven, saying, 'The kingdoms of the world did become those of our Lord and of His Christ, and he shall reign into the ages of the ages!' (Rev.11:15)
9 And a third angel followed them, calling in loud a voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives its mark on his forehead or hand, 10 he too will drink the wine of God’s anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up into the ages of ages, and they have no respite day and night who do homage to the beast and to its image, and if any one receive the mark of its name. (Rev.14:9-11)
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. (Rev.19:20)
and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are the beast and the false prophet, and they shall be tormented day and night -- into the ages of the ages. (Rev.20:10)
3No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be within the city, and His servants will worship Him. 4 They will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads. 5 And night shall not be any more, and no need of a lamp, and light of the sun; for the Lord God shall shine upon them, and they shall reign into the ages of ages. (Rev.22:3-5)
The verses above indicate Christ & the saints shall be reigning "into the ages of the ages", including the millenial age & the age when the lake of fire (= the 2nd death) is abolished. But 1 Cor.15:25 says Christ's reign is UNTIL He has put all enemies under His feet. Since He is still reigning at the time of Revelation 20-22, all enemies are not yet under His feet. So neither is God yet "All in all" (1 Cor.15:28) nor is death [e.g. 2nd death] abolished yet.
So death is not abolished (1 Cor.15:26), since that is associated with the end of Christ's reign (v.25) & will not happen till He quits reigning. Also those humans who died a second death in the lake of fire, which is the second death, are still dead, so death is not yet abolished (v.26). As long as the second death remains & is not abolished, death is not abolished as per v.26.
Neither is "all rule and authority and power" yet nullified (1 Cor.15:24) by Revelation 21-22. There are still kings in the earth (Rev.21:24). There is still the throne of the Lamb & the saints reigning (22:3,5). So neither is death abolished or God "all in all" (1 Cor.15:28).
God cannot be "all in all" (1 Cor.15:28) while there are still those in the second death & those being tormented in the lake of fire (Rev.14:9-11; 19:20; 20:10).
In Revelation 22:2 we also have leaves that are for the healing of the nations. Who at this time would need healing?
Eventually God will be making all new (Rev.21:5) & will be "in all" (1 Cor.15:28).
The abolishing of death means an end to the death of those in the second death, which means their resurrection "in Christ" as per 1 Cor.15:22-28.
For further reading, here is an interesting article on the subject:
http://home.earthlink.net/~btdd1/asinadam.html
Unique Proof For Christian, Biblical Universalism
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Happy to if you can show me a single scripture that says that the wicked will be saved after the second coming? Even if you were able to (which you cannot as there is no scripture) you will have to reconcile *REVELATION 21:7-8; REVELATION 21:7; HEBREWS 10:26-31; MATTHEW 25:31-41; 2 THESSALONIANS 1:6-10; MATTHEW 7:13-27; REVELATION 21:8; REVELATION 22:11-12; REVELATION 22:14-15 which states the exact opposite of what your claiming even if you can find a single scripture that says that the wicked will be saved and receive eternal life after the second coming. Having no scripture for your position here does this not worry you? It should dear friend.
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