The Sabbath of the TEN Commandments - for all mankind (V2)

HARK! said:

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,

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When you quote from John's first letter please quote the commandments that John gave. Don't start quoting from another letter, otherwise, you are quoting out of the context of John's letter.

The name of Jesus is Yehshua and not Yahshua by the way.

We have already covered that name before.

HARK! said:

Would you deny that one must be an active participant as Messiah leads us in obedience?

(CLV) 1Co 11:1
Become imitators of me, according as I also am of Christ.

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I cannot be circumcised as Christ was. So how do I imitate Jesus?

Jesus was born under the law and I was not.

Jesus was born into the house of David, a Jew. I am not a Jew.

I am a Gentile that was grafted into the root of the olive tree.

Gentiles are not Jews, Gentiles were never told that they are under the law. The Gentile sojourner in Israel can be circumcised according to the law. Then can celebrate the Passover. Apart from that a Gentile is still a Gentile, and is forbidden from entering the temple.

Gentiles cannot become priests.

Genetics determines the nationality of any citizen in Israel.

Acts 15, clearly lists the duties that a Gentile must perform. And yes, the word 'Gentile' is the word they used to describe us. Which clearly specifies two basic nationalities.

klutedavid said:

I certainly do know what love means.I quoted from John's first letter and that was what he said. Why accuse me of annulling the law of Moses? John was the one who did that.The word 'tables' is plural and so is the word 'hearts' in my translation. You don't use a chisel on the heart. The type of love referred to in the New Testament is agape love. Which is universal, unconditional, love in it's purest form. Divine love spoken into our hearts by the breath of God Himself.A summary of the ten commandments or a summary of the law and the prophets?

Matthew 22:40
On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.

Your argument collapses here because you misquoted what Jesus actually said.I establish the law, not the ten commandments, I establish the entire law.None of these laws above have anything to do with love. Your trying to assert that not coveting your neighbors donkey is loving others?

Read the scripture.

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Wow the Ten Commandments do not promote love? Now I know your true heart . Don't worship other gods; that's not loving God? You are in denial if you believe this or simply what to deny truth to justify actions.



You realize that the bible refers to the law as the Ten Commandments at times and other times as the law of Moses, it's all in the context, But you don't seem to know context.

Also, you accuse me of not loving, however, love is telling the truth even when it hurts at times.

klutedavid said:

One of the factors that distinguished the Pharisees from other groups prior to the destruction of the Temple was their belief that all Jews had to observe the purity laws (which applied to the Temple service) outside the Temple. The major difference, however, was the continued adherence of the Pharisees to the laws and traditions of the Jewish people in the face of assimilation. As Josephus noted, the Pharisees were considered the most expert and accurate expositors of Jewish law. (Pharisee, wikipedia)

Jesus told the disciple that they had to listen to the Pharisees.

Matthew 23
Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples, saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses; therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them."

You are misinformed about the Pharisees, they knew the law intricately. That was there occupation, the interpretation of the scripture.

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Did you even read the verse? They were CORRECT IN CERTAIN ASPECTS AND WERE STILL EXPERTS BUT DON'T DO EVERYTHING THEY TELL YOU. You ignore a lot of lines and facts in everything you share, just like they did.

In the verse it says to listen to them since they are in charge, just like he says to abbey the laws of the land/Caesar unless it contradicts the laws of God.

"therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them." See here they tell others to do a lot of things but don't even do this themselves. Jesus was in other verse that they were breaking God's commandments, and adding laws. Read scripture like you always say. It's amazing how you deny facts on many verses.

Andre_b said:

Wow the Ten Commandments do not promote love?

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That's right Andre_b. Love is a gift of the Holy Spirit and there is no other way to love others.

Now I know your true heart . Don't worship other gods; that's not loving God? You are in denial if you believe this or simply what to deny truth to justify actions.

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I confess the name of Jesus and that precludes other God's.

You don't know my heart and I am not sure that I know my own heart. As I said before, 'not coveting', is not regarded as an act of love. Forgiving others is an act of love. Placing others before your own self interest, is an act of love.

You realize that the bible refers to the law as the Ten Commandments at times and other times as the law of Moses, it's all in the context, But you don't seem to know context.

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You hit the nail on the head. That is a hole in one.

That is exactly why your interpretation is invalid. The phrase 'the law', always refers to the whole law. Can I prove that your interpretation is invalid? Well I can.

James 1:27
Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.

Well that is a commandment that trumps them all. But for some unknown reason, some faulty interpretation. You never seem to mention, probably, one of the most important commandments in the law.

Your on the back foot now and you seriously need to revise your method of reading the scripture!

Also, you accuse me of not loving, however, love is telling the truth even when it hurts at times.

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No it's not. Jesus is the truth and the only truth we will ever know. Confess Jesus and I will listen. Promote the law and I cannot hear you. The law is weak and useless and only the Holy Spirit enables love from a pure heart.

Did you even read the verse? They were CORRECT IN CERTAIN ASPECTSAND WERE STILL EXPERTS BUT DON'T DO EVERYTHING THEY TELL YOU. You ignore a lot of lines and facts in everything you share, just like they did.

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I told you already that Jesus told the apostles to listen to the Pharisees instructions.

In the verse it says to listen to them since they are in charge, just like he says to abbey the laws of the land/Caesar unless it contradicts the laws of God.

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Exactly, you are in submission to both the Pharisees and to Caesar. Any breach is death.

"therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them." See here they tell others to do a lot of things but don't even do this themselves. Jesus was in other verse that they were breaking God's commandments, and adding laws. Read scripture like you always say. It's amazing how you deny facts on many verses.

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You still don't get it. The Pharisees were experts in the law and yes, they imposed extra laws on the people. They also nullified other laws. But as Paul said.

Philippians 3:5-6
Circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless.

Paul knew the law down to the letter. Paul was a Pharisee. Paul carried out the sentence of the law exactly. The law condemned and Paul executed. Paul had no forgiveness or compassion for a sinner, they were stoned.

klutedavid said:

Correct. The law condemned you and Jesus forgave and justified you.

Your debt to Jesus for His profound unconditional love for you, Hark. Is that you now display that unconditional love towards others. That is the only outstanding thing you now owe God.

Romans 13:8
Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.

I have fulfilled the law in it's entirety.

Waiting for the accusations...

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Great now i can worship other gods and idols etc. Great logic you have there quoting out of context.

HARK! said:

Would you deny that one must be an active participant as Messiah leads us in obedience?

(CLV) 1Co 11:1
Become imitators of me, according as I also am of Christ.

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Are you going to answer the question?

.

klutedavid said:

I cannot be circumcised as Christ was. So how do I imitate Jesus?

Jesus was born under the law and I was not.

Jesus was born into the house of David, a Jew. I am not a Jew.

I am a Gentile that was grafted into the root of the olive tree.

Gentiles are not Jews, Gentiles were never told that they are under the law. The Gentile sojourner in Israel can be circumcised according to the law. Then can celebrate the Passover. Apart from that a Gentile is still a Gentile, and is forbidden from entering the temple.

Gentiles cannot become priests.

Genetics determines the nationality of any citizen in Israel.

Acts 15, clearly lists the duties that a Gentile must perform. And yes, the word 'Gentile' is the word they used to describe us. Which clearly specifies two basic nationalities.

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You sound like a heretic and mocking constantly. You keep quoting out of context and then say something ridiculous that makes no sense.

klutedavid said:

So your still constructing stone altars and sacrificing bulls?

Exodus 20:24
You shall make an altar of earth for Me, and you shall sacrifice on it your burnt offerings and your peace offerings, your sheep and your oxen; in every place where I cause My name to be remembered, I will come to you and bless you.

That is a commandment in Exodus 20.

Has the law been annulled or not?

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We all know this is NOT part of the Ten Commandments, you seem like you are trying to mock based on this message, since we've already dealt with this and know the answer already.

BABerean2 said:

Are you going to answer the question?

.

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Looks like Paul was imitating Christ, Christ was keeping his fathers commandments. Thanks for helping in our cause!

klutedavid said:

Correct. The law condemned you and Jesus forgave and justified you.

Your debt to Jesus for His profound unconditional love for you, Hark. Is that you now display that unconditional love towards others. That is the only outstanding thing you now owe God.

Romans 13:8
Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.

I have fulfilled the law in it's entirety.

Waiting for the accusations...

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He very 2 next verses is the definition of love, again you ignore. Tell that to a homosexual, they love each other but according to you that's the love of God. Love that's it... God is the only one who defines what love is. You simply use the word love and think you are good and nothing else needs to be done. You misuse the word love it's sad.

Romans 13:9-10 is the definition of loving one another but you ignore anything that has to do with the tables of stone and of the heart by the Holy Spirit. Love one another is actually from the Old Testament. Seems like you are keeping an Old Testament law, lol. God is the one who gives us this love which is Romans 13:9-10 in action.

Andre_b said:

Looks like Paul was imitating Christ, Christ was keeping his fathers commandments. Thanks for helping in our cause!

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Php 3:4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
Php 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Php 3:6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Php 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Php 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

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Andre_b said:

We all know this is NOT part of the Ten Commandments, you seem like you are trying to mock based on this message, since we've already dealt with this and know the answer already.

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Can you just stick to the text and stop making allegations?

The so called ten commandments are not separate from the law, they do not stand alone.

Here I will repeat this powerful commandment.

Exodus 22:22
You shall not afflict any widow or orphan.

How could anyone omit that commandment from any list?

You talk about love, as the act of not coveting your neighbors oxen?

Yet you never mention Exodus 22:22?

You have a serious flaw in your interpretation.

Anyone who limits the law to the ten commandments is committing a gross error.

BobRyan said:

But not very accurate according to Christ's evaluation of them and Paul's evaluation of them.

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’

8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

To re-imagine that summation by Christ as being something along the lines of -- Pharisees are the "most expert and accurate expositors" of the law -- one must go outside of scripture.

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I disagree strongly.

The Pharisees were not only trained deeply in the law. They applied an interpretation to the law also, this meant adding to the law.

Yes Bob, the Pharisees over wrote some commandments. They also added unbearable laws on top of the existing law.
Israel was unable to obey the law, let alone the extra law.

The Pharisees did not obey the law themselves either.

No one obeyed the law, otherwise, Christ died in vain.

All had fallen and all were sinners, hypocrites, liars, e.t.c.

Paul was a Pharisee.

Andre_b said:

We all know this is NOT part of the Ten Commandments, you seem like you are trying to mock based on this message, since we've already dealt with this and know the answer already.

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So how did you deal with it, since it is not an ordinance?

klutedavid said:

Can you just stick to the text and stop making allegations?

The so called ten commandments are not separate from the law, they do not stand alone.

Here I will repeat this powerful commandment.

Exodus 22:22
You shall not afflict any widow or orphan.

How could anyone omit that commandment from any list?

You talk about love, as the act of not coveting your neighbors oxen?

Yet you never mention Exodus 22:22?

You have a serious flaw in your interpretation.

Anyone who limits the law to the ten commandments is committing a gross error.

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You say the 10 commandments do no the stand alone.
That's a lie once again:

"He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments." -- Deuteronomy 4:13

Exodus 31:18
The stone tablets were placed in the Ark of the Covenant Exodus 25:21

You love using the oxen as an example, however, everyone except you seems to know that this is, and not the only thing not to covet, it was an example of not to covet any important item of their neighbour simply see what it meant at the time of writing. Of course you take very single line as 100% literal when using it to mock the truth and word of God. You think God should have put the entire list of all items in the world not to covet? Should he have added Lamborghinis, vipers, private jets, children, jewelry, gold, silver, food, land, perls, mustangs, cows, chickens, 500mbps fibre obtics, computers, TVs? Seems like everyone else understands what God means.

BobRyan said:

But not very accurate according to Christ's evaluation of them and Paul's evaluation of them.

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’

8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

To re-imagine that summation by Christ as being something along the lines of -- Pharisees are the "most expert and accurate expositors" of the law -- one must go outside of scripture.



Well... I am going with Christ's summation on this one.



True and Christ said "and you do many things such as that.”

That pretty much sums it up. They were law breakers. editing, downsizing and ignore the law when it suited their preferences.




Christ and Paul would agree with your statement on that one.

Romans 8 comes to mind.
4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

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Hello Bob.

Your quotation from Romans 8 does not mention the ten commandments directly.

Romans 8:7
...it does not subject itself to the law of God...

The text says, 'law of God', so do you interpret that as the ten commandments minus some other commandments?

klutedavid said:

Hello Bob.

Your quotation from Romans 8 does not mention the ten commandments directly.

Romans 8:7
...it does not subject itself to the law of God...

The text says, 'law of God', so do you interpret that as the ten commandments minus some other commandments?

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You go in circles a lot, not proving anything. Keep quoting out of context doesn't prove your point. It just proves ignorance of the gospel. If you believe the law doesn't exist then why do you follow the law?