The Olivet Discourse

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mkgal1

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Paul contrasted the two covenants in Galatians as well. When referring to the Old Covenant....he stated, "which now is" (written around 20-30 years after the Cross):

Galatians 4:22-26 - For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar; 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children; 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.
 
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sovereigngrace

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I'm certainly not arguing against that. My point is that it wasn't sudden (in 30 AD).....there was a period of grace....to transition.

Not true! You ignore every single inspired text that forbids your theory. The teaching of the inspired text between AD30 and AD70 shows that to be wrong. This again disproves the whole Preterist contention in regard to the the removal of the old covenant. What is more you steer around the fact that there cannot be 2 covenants ongoing at the one time. There cannot be 2 competing priesthoods. One replaced the other.
 
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sovereigngrace

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I'm certainly not arguing against that. My point is that it wasn't sudden (in 30 AD).....there was a period of grace....to transition.

Not true! You ignore every single inspired text above that forbids your theory, and just respond with opinion. The teaching of the inspired text between AD30 and AD70 shows that to be wrong. This again disproves the whole Preterist contention in regard to the the removal of the old covenant. What is more you steer around the fact that there cannot be 2 covenants ongoing at the one time. There cannot be 2 competing priesthoods. One replaced the other.

When Jesus cried it is finished, the old covenant sacrifice system was finished. This was reinforced by the ripping of the temple curtain in two. Christ was the final sacrifice for sin.

Hebrews 7:27 says of Christ and His final atonement, “Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.”

Hebrews 9:28 explains that "Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many.”

Hebrews 10:10 says, “we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”

Hebrews 10:12 says, “this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God.”

Hebrews 10:14 says, “For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Romans 6:10 says, he died unto sin once.”

1 Peter 3:18 says, “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit.”

Hebrews 9:12 explains, “by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.”

Christ put and end of sin by this final transaction for sin, thus making an end of sin forever for those who would believe. There will never again be a sacrifice for sin. Christ’s atonement satisfied heaven’s holy demands and ensured that there would never again be another sacrifice/offering for sin carrying God’s blessing.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Paul contrasted the two covenants in Galatians as well. When referring to the Old Covenant....he stated, "which now is" (written around 20-30 years after the Cross):

Galatians 4:22-26 - For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar; 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children; 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.

He was showing the worthlessness and redundancy of the old. He shows its last remains! It was there for all to see its dessolation. He was showing that physical Jerusalem that still stood when he wrote this was abrogated. It was superseded by a better, stronger and longer lasting covenant.

Paul the Apostle blows apart the fleshly genetic hope of the natural children of Abraham. He then demonstrates how the favor of God does not rest on ethnicity. Their racial credentials mean nothing. Those within the natural Abrahamic family that reject God’s offer of salvation were not under blessing but under a curse. They were not in any considered as God’s chosen people. Whilst God’s blessing would be upon Abraham’s seed it would not be because of natural pedigree but for spiritual pedigree.

Paul expands upon this great truth in Galatians 4:21-31, by asking a question: “Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the Scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.”

The whole discourse here focuses in on identifying what is of God and what is not, especially in regard to Abraham’s descendants. The dividing factor comes down to: men are either “born after the flesh” or “born after the Spirit.” This has always been the case from the beginning. Race or physical birthright was never the determining feature when it came to blessing. It was instead spiritual vitality. After all, both of these boys were biological children of Abraham. But the difference between them was that Isaac was a child of promise and Ishmael was not. Those who are merely born naturally (regardless of their race), or who have only experienced one birth, are of the devil, those who have experienced a second birth – a spiritual conversion, belong to God. The writer demonstrates how natural ancestry means nothing, even if your blood father was Abraham himself.

The old covenant was desolated before the temple and the city were. He simply gave them 40 years to repent and adjust, as is His gracious character.
 
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sovereigngrace

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I agree that "what remains" is the new covenant, but that isn't being questioned. What I am pointing out is the "what is passing away" part. Any unbiased reader should see that as the Old Covenant/Levitical priesthood/Temple system. That isn't written in the past tense or as completed. This was written about 25 years after the Cross.

The Old Covenant was still functioning as a "schoolmaster " that led the Ancient Jews to faith. Hebrews informs us that the way into the presence of God was not freely open as long as the Tabernacle and the system it represented were still in use (and they were....until 70 AD).

Hebrews 9:8 ~ By these regulations the Holy Spirit revealed that the entrance to the Most Holy Place was not freely open as long as the Tabernacle and the system it represented were still in use.

The problem is: you don't see the difference between the moral law and the ceremonial law. The moral law is still active to expose sin in the sinner. The righteous are no longer under the law, when they come to Christ. The ceremonial law was abolished a long time ago at the cross. It is gone! You cannot even see this. This is 101 Christianity.
 
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mkgal1

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The old covenant was desolated before the temple and the city were. He simply gave them 40 years to repent and adjust, as is His gracious character.
i agree with you that the 40 years from the Cross to the destruction of the Temple system demonstrates His grace.

The fact that - during the crucifixion - the veil into the Holy of Holies was torn, that put an end to future Yom Kippur/Day of Atonement that only the High Priest performed. In my belief....that served as a physical reminder to the Ancient Jews that the presence of God was no longer in the sanctuary. However.....there is a distinction made in Hebrews between the daily priestly duties and those of the Day of Atonement:

Hebrews 9:6 - Now when these things had been thus prepared, the priests always went into the first part of the tabernacle, performing the services.

Hebrews 9:7 - But into the second part the high priest went alone once a year, not without blood, which he offered for himself and for the people's sins committed in ignorance.
 
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mkgal1

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The righteous are no longer under the law, when they come to Christ
I'm not making any reference to today. It's been impossible to observe the Law since the complete removal of the entire system in the fist century.

Sovereigngrace said:
It is gone! You cannot even see this. This is 101 Christianity.
I think maybe you didn't read past my first paragraph since you're writing this. Reading my entire post should clear up this misunderstanding.
 
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sovereigngrace

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i agree with you that the 40 years from the Cross to the destruction of the Temple system demonstrates His grace.

The fact that - during the crucifixion - the veil into the Holy of Holies was torn, that put an end to future Yom Kippur/Day of Atonement that only the High Priest performed. In my belief....that served as a physical reminder to the Ancient Jews that the presence of God was no longer in the sanctuary. However.....there is a distinction made in Hebrews between the daily priestly duties and those of the Day of Atonement:

Hebrews 9:6 - Now when these things had been thus prepared, the priests always went into the first part of the tabernacle, performing the services.

Hebrews 9:7 - But into the second part the high priest went alone once a year, not without blood, which he offered for himself and for the people's sins committed in ignorance.

Once again, you totally ignored the various Scripture and numerous arguments that I presented to rebut your position. This seem to be your pattern.
 
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sovereigngrace

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I'm not making any reference to today. It's been impossible to observe the Law since the complete removal of the entire system in the fist century.


I think maybe you didn't read past my first paragraph since you're writing this. Reading my entire post should clear up this misunderstanding.

No, i read it, I understood it, but I reject it. Your reasoning is in error.
 
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mkgal1

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Once again, you totally ignored the various Scripture and numerous arguments that I presented to rebut your position. This seem to be your pattern.
Scripture doesn't contradict Scripture. I'm sharing Scripture to support my arguments and you are arguing with personal opinions.
 
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mkgal1

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No, i read it, I understood it, but I reject it. Your reasoning is in error.
I'm referring to this part of your post:

Sovereigngrace said:
It is gone! You cannot even see this. This is 101 Christianity.

....when, in that same post you responded to with that statement....I had written this [below](saying the same thing - that the Levitical priesthood/Temple system IS gone now, but not when that passage was written).

mkgal1 said:
I agree that "what remains" is the new covenant, but that isn't being questioned. What I am pointing out is the "what is passing away" part. Any unbiased reader should see that as the Old Covenant/Levitical priesthood/Temple system. That isn't written in the past tense or as completed. This was written about 25 years after the Cross.

The Old Covenant was still functioning as a "schoolmaster " that led the Ancient Jews to faith. Hebrews informs us that the way into the presence of God was not freely open as long as the Tabernacle and the system it represented were still in use (and they were....until 70 AD).

Hebrews 9:8 ~ By these regulations the Holy Spirit revealed that the entrance to the Most Holy Place was not freely open as long as the Tabernacle and the system it represented were still in use.
So which is it? You reject my second and third paragraph here? What is in error about my reasoning there?
 
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sovereigngrace

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I'm referring to this part of your post:


....when, in that same post you responded to with that statement....I had written this [below](saying the same thing - that the Levitical priesthood/Temple system IS gone now, but not when that passage was written).


So which is it? You reject my second and third paragraph here? What is in error about my reasoning there?

The Jewish temple in Jerusalem, after Christ’s death and the ripping of the curtain in two, was rendered wholly redundant. Its usefulness was over. It was obsolete. It remaining standing up until AD70 did not mean it had any further earthly purpose, or that the old covenant remained in effect. It was just like a human corpse awaiting burial. It had no vitality, no relevance and no purpose. Once Christ died, the old covenant died. Degeneration immediately set in, just like the decay that kicks in when a human gives up the ghost.

2 Corinthians 3:11: “For if that which is done away (katargeo or rendered entirely idle, useless) was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious."

Hebrews 8:13: “In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth (palaioo or is worn out, or declared obsolete) and waxeth old (gerasko) is ready to vanish away.”

Even though a corpse may look asleep it is gradually decaying, and will ultimately vanish away. But that entity has no further earthly use. Its time is up.
 
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mkgal1

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The Jewish temple in Jerusalem, after Christ’s death and the ripping of the curtain in two, was rendered wholly redundant. Its usefulness was over. It was obsolete. It remaining standing up until AD70 did not mean it had any further earthly purpose, or that the old covenant remained in effect. It was just like a human corpse awaiting burial. It had no vitality, no relevance and no purpose.
Well.....that's my point. It DID remain standing until 70 AD (and I believe there was a purpose). There is no denying that. It's a historical fact.

The purpose of the Mosaic covenant was always to point to faith in Christ. That didn't cease at the Cross. In fact......even though that system and all that went with it has *now* disappeared (since 70 AD)....it is STILL useful, because what we read in the Old Testament (the Law and the prophets) points to Christ.

If there was no earthly purpose for the observance of the Mosaic Law.....then why was Paul concerned about the rumors that he was NOT in observance of the Law. Wouldn't it make sense that Paul would then explain that the Old Mosaic covenant had ended......and that all the Levitical priests were out of jobs and should go find another occupation? Instead......this is what we do read:

Acts 21:17-36

Paul’s Arrival at Jerusalem

17When we arrived in Jerusalem, the brothers welcomed us joyfully. 18The next day Paul went in with us to see James, and all the elders were present. 19Paul greeted them and recounted one by one the things that God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry.20When they heard this, they glorified God. Then they said to Paul, “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. 21But they are under the impression that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or observe our customs. 22What then should we do? They will certainly hear that you have come.23Therefore do what we advise you. There are four men with us who have taken a vow. 24Take these men, purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know that there is no truth to these rumors about you, but that you also live in obedience to the law.25As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they must abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals, and from sexual immorality.”26So the next day Paul took the men and purified himself along with them. Then he entered the temple to give notice of the date when their purification would be complete and the offering would be made for each of them.27When the seven days were almost over, some Jews from the province of Asiab saw Paul at the temple. They stirred up the whole crowd and seized him, 28crying out, “
Men of Israel, help us! This is the man who teaches everywhere against our people and against our law and against this place. Furthermore, he has brought Greeks into the temple and defiled this holy place.” 29For they had previously seen Trophimus the Ephesian with him in the city, and they assumed that Paul had brought him into the temple.30The whole city was stirred up, and the people rushed together. They seized Paul and dragged him out of the temple, and at once the gates were shut. 31While they were trying to kill him, the commander of the Roman regimentc received a report that all Jerusalem was in turmoil. 32Immediately he took some soldiers and centurions and ran down to the crowd. When the people saw the commander and the soldiers, they stopped beating Paul.33The commander came up and arrested Paul, ordering that he be bound with two chains. Then he asked who he was and what he had done.34Some in the crowd were shouting one thing, and some another. And since the commander could not get at the truth because of the uproar, he ordered that Paul be brought into the barracks. 35When Paul reached the steps, he had to be carried by the soldiers because of the violence of the mob. 36For the crowd that followed him kept shouting, “Away with him!”

......as you wrote.....the system still remained (and there was power over the disciples to jail them and even murder them).....but they didn't remain in power. The way I see it is.....God allowed them the time to "be His priests".....but, in His perfect timing.....He took that seat back for all of history to see. As jgr posted a while back (I'm paraphrasing) "Isaiah prophesied it.....Jesus confirmed it....and Josephus recorded it in history". The landowner came in 70 AD.....just as in the parable of the evil tenants that Jesus spoke of:

Matthew 21:33-46 ~
The Parable of the Wicked Tenants
(Mark 12:1-12; Luke 20:9-18)

33Listen to another parable: There was a landowner who planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a winepress in it, and built a tower. Then he rented it out to some tenants and went away on a journey.34When the harvest time drew near, he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his share of the fruit. 35But the tenants seized his servants. They beat one, killed another, and stoned a third.36Again, he sent other servants, more than the first group. But the tenants did the same to them.37Finally, he sent his son to them. ‘They will respect my son,’ he said.38But when the tenants saw the son, they said to one another, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and take his inheritance.’ 39So they seized him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.40Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard returns, what will he do to those tenants?”41“He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they replied, “and will rent out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him his share of the fruit at harvest time.”42Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:
‘The stone the builders rejected

has become the cornerstone.

This is from the Lord,

and it is marvelous in our eyes’
k ?43Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. 44He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed.l45When the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they knew that Jesus was speaking about them. 46Although they wanted to arrest Him, they were afraid of the crowds, because the people regarded Him as a prophet.
 
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sovereigngrace

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The purpose of the Mosaic covenant was always to point to faith in Christ. That didn't cease at the Cross. In fact......even though that system and all that went with it has *now* disappeared (since 70 AD)....it is STILL useful, because what we read in the Old Testament points to Christ.

If there was no earthly purpose for the observance of the Mosaic Law.....then why was Paul concerned about the rumors that he was NOT in observance of the Law. Wouldn't it make sense that Paul would then explain that the Old Mosaic covenant had ended......and that all the Levitical priests were out of jobs and should go find another occupation? Instead......this is what we do read:

Acts 21:17-36

Paul’s Arrival at Jerusalem

17When we arrived in Jerusalem, the brothers welcomed us joyfully. 18The next day Paul went in with us to see James, and all the elders were present. 19Paul greeted them and recounted one by one the things that God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry.20When they heard this, they glorified God. Then they said to Paul, “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. 21But they are under the impression that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or observe our customs. 22What then should we do? They will certainly hear that you have come.23Therefore do what we advise you. There are four men with us who have taken a vow. 24Take these men, purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know that there is no truth to these rumors about you, but that you also live in obedience to the law.25As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they must abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals, and from sexual immorality.”26So the next day Paul took the men and purified himself along with them. Then he entered the temple to give notice of the date when their purification would be complete and the offering would be made for each of them.27When the seven days were almost over, some Jews from the province of Asiab saw Paul at the temple. They stirred up the whole crowd and seized him, 28crying out, “
Men of Israel, help us! This is the man who teaches everywhere against our people and against our law and against this place. Furthermore, he has brought Greeks into the temple and defiled this holy place.” 29For they had previously seen Trophimus the Ephesian with him in the city, and they assumed that Paul had brought him into the temple.30The whole city was stirred up, and the people rushed together. They seized Paul and dragged him out of the temple, and at once the gates were shut. 31While they were trying to kill him, the commander of the Roman regimentc received a report that all Jerusalem was in turmoil. 32Immediately he took some soldiers and centurions and ran down to the crowd. When the people saw the commander and the soldiers, they stopped beating Paul.33The commander came up and arrested Paul, ordering that he be bound with two chains. Then he asked who he was and what he had done.34Some in the crowd were shouting one thing, and some another. And since the commander could not get at the truth because of the uproar, he ordered that Paul be brought into the barracks. 35When Paul reached the steps, he had to be carried by the soldiers because of the violence of the mob. 36For the crowd that followed him kept shouting, “Away with him!”

......as you wrote.....the system still remained (and there was power over the disciples to jail them and even murder them).....but they didn't remain in power. The way I see it is.....God allowed them the time to "be His priests".....but, in His perfect timing.....He took that seat back for all of history to see. As jgr posted a while back (I'm paraphrasing) "Isaiah prophesied it.....Jesus confirmed it....and Josephus recorded it in history". The landowner came in 70 AD.....just as in the parable of the evil tenants that Jesus spoke of:

Matthew 21:33-46 ~
The Parable of the Wicked Tenants
(Mark 12:1-12; Luke 20:9-18)

33Listen to another parable: There was a landowner who planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a winepress in it, and built a tower. Then he rented it out to some tenants and went away on a journey.34When the harvest time drew near, he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his share of the fruit. 35But the tenants seized his servants. They beat one, killed another, and stoned a third.36Again, he sent other servants, more than the first group. But the tenants did the same to them.37Finally, he sent his son to them. ‘They will respect my son,’ he said.38But when the tenants saw the son, they said to one another, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and take his inheritance.’ 39So they seized him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.40Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard returns, what will he do to those tenants?”41“He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they replied, “and will rent out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him his share of the fruit at harvest time.”42Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:
‘The stone the builders rejected

has become the cornerstone.

This is from the Lord,

and it is marvelous in our eyes’
k ?43Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. 44He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed.l45When the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they knew that Jesus was speaking about them. 46Although they wanted to arrest Him, they were afraid of the crowds, because the people regarded Him as a prophet.

Your Preterism is forcing you to argue something that is blatantly unbiblical. The old covenant died when Jesus died. The old covenant simply and imperfectly looked forward to the eternal covenant, not back. The Lord's table looks back to the institution of the new covenant at the cross.

Paul repeatedly explained that the Old Mosaic covenant had ended. He indeed taught after the cross and before AD70, in Colossians 2:16-17: “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.”

Can you see this? Once the substance arrived, the show became irrelevant.

The Greek word translated “holyday” here is heorte meaning feast or festival. Of 27 mentions of this word in the normally precise KJV, it is interpreted “feast” in all of them apart from here.

New American Standard interprets: “Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day -- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.”

The Living Bible says, “So don't let anyone criticize you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating Jewish holidays and feasts or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. For these were only temporary rules that ended when Christ came. They were only shadows of the real thing-of Christ himself.”

Paul is saying here that the old covenant feasts and festivals simply served as types and shadows of things that were to come. They looked forward to the new covenant arrangement and the reality and substance in Christ. The Jews of Ezekiel’s day and Zechariah’s day would never have understood this.

Paul taught after the cross and before AD70, Colossians 2:20-22: “Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using) after the commandments and doctrines of men?”

This is not talking about the moral law, it is talking about the ceremonial law. It is a redundant system. Christ took the whole old system away. The old Mosaic ceremonial law is completely gone. It is useless.

Christianity took us away from the old Mosaic ceremonial law completely. Those who argue for a return to the old system fail to see that it has been rendered obsolete through the new covenant.

The Hebrew writer taught after the cross and before AD70, Hebrews 7:18-19: For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.”

This word “disannulling” is taken from the Greek word athetesis meaning cancellation.

Barnes tells us in his commentary that the “disannulling of the commandment going before” relates to “the office of priest” and the Old Testament “ceremonial rites in general.” He explains that the old covenant “was not adapted to save man; it had not power to accomplish what was necessary to be done in human salvation. It answered the end for which it was designed-that of introducing a more perfect plan, and then vanished as a matter of course. It did not expiate guilt; it did not give peace to the conscience; it did not produce perfection (Heb 7:11), and therefore it gave place to a better system.”

The phrase “weakness and unprofitableness” used here to describe the old abolished system actually reads asthenes kai anopheles literally meaning: feeble and impotent useless and unprofitable.

It is hard to believe that Christian scholars would promote the return, on the new earth of all places, of such a hopeless discarded arrangement.

When Christ made that final sacrifice for sin He satisfied all God’s holy demands for sin and uncleanness and thus Christ became the final substitution for the sinner. Paul taught after the cross and before AD70, in Ephesians 2:13-15, “now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us]; Having abolished (katargeo) in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances.”

The Greek word katargeo is used here to describe the fate that befell the old Mosaic ritualistic system relating to “the law of commandments contained in ordinances.” This word means: ‘bring to nought’, ‘none effect’, and ‘abolish’. Jesus did away with any need or reliance upon the outward keeping of the old covenant religious system. The cross fulfilled forever God’s demand for a perfect once-for-all sacrifice.

The Hebrew writer taught after the cross and before AD70, Hebrews 7:16 that Christ “is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.”

Adam Clark says: “Who is made - Appointed to this high office by God himself, not succeeding one that was disabled or dead, according to that law or ordinance directed to weak and perishing men, who could not continue by reason of death. This is probably all that the apostle intends by the words carnal commandment, εντολης σαρκικης· for carnal does not always mean sinful or corrupt, but feeble, frail, or what may be said of or concerning man in his present dying condition.”

Albert Barnes says: “Not after the law of a carnal commandment - Not according to the Law of a commandment pertaining to the flesh. The word “carnal” means “fleshly;” and the idea is, that the Law under which the priests of the old dispensation were made was external, rather than spiritual; it related more to outward observances than to the keeping of the heart. That this was the nature of the Mosaic ritual in the main, it was impossible to doubt, and the apostle proceeds to argue from this undeniable truth.

The whole context here is the removal and the replacement of the old covenant priesthood, the writer of the Hebrews presents Christ as heavens eternal replacement. What is more, we can see that this priesthood cannot pass from one to another, it is not transferrable. No other can appropriate this title or share in the function of the position, Christ alone holds that sacred high priestly office. Christ is the only real and perfect high priest today. He is the ultimate and final High Priest of the redeemed of God.
 
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mkgal1

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Your Preterism is forcing you to argue something that is blatantly unbiblical. The old covenant died when Jesus died.
This does nothing to address what I wrote.

My point is about the Temple standing....the Levitical priests and religious leaders still having political power (even after 30 AD....until 70 AD)........and Jesus telling a parable about the kingdom of God being ripped away from them (and it was!). 70 AD was the end of ancient mosaic judaism. The kingdom of God was rightly claimed by our eternal High Priest (Christ) for all to see.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Well.....that's my point. It DID remain standing until 70 AD (and I believe there was a purpose). There is no denying that. It's a historical fact.

The purpose of the Mosaic covenant was always to point to faith in Christ. That didn't cease at the Cross. In fact......even though that system and all that went with it has *now* disappeared (since 70 AD)....it is STILL useful, because what we read in the Old Testament (the Law and the prophets) points to Christ.

If there was no earthly purpose for the observance of the Mosaic Law.....then why was Paul concerned about the rumors that he was NOT in observance of the Law. Wouldn't it make sense that Paul would then explain that the Old Mosaic covenant had ended......and that all the Levitical priests were out of jobs and should go find another occupation? Instead......this is what we do read:

Acts 21:17-36

Paul’s Arrival at Jerusalem

17When we arrived in Jerusalem, the brothers welcomed us joyfully. 18The next day Paul went in with us to see James, and all the elders were present. 19Paul greeted them and recounted one by one the things that God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry.20When they heard this, they glorified God. Then they said to Paul, “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. 21But they are under the impression that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or observe our customs. 22What then should we do? They will certainly hear that you have come.23Therefore do what we advise you. There are four men with us who have taken a vow. 24Take these men, purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know that there is no truth to these rumors about you, but that you also live in obedience to the law.25As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they must abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals, and from sexual immorality.”26So the next day Paul took the men and purified himself along with them. Then he entered the temple to give notice of the date when their purification would be complete and the offering would be made for each of them.27When the seven days were almost over, some Jews from the province of Asiab saw Paul at the temple. They stirred up the whole crowd and seized him, 28crying out, “
Men of Israel, help us! This is the man who teaches everywhere against our people and against our law and against this place. Furthermore, he has brought Greeks into the temple and defiled this holy place.” 29For they had previously seen Trophimus the Ephesian with him in the city, and they assumed that Paul had brought him into the temple.30The whole city was stirred up, and the people rushed together. They seized Paul and dragged him out of the temple, and at once the gates were shut. 31While they were trying to kill him, the commander of the Roman regimentc received a report that all Jerusalem was in turmoil. 32Immediately he took some soldiers and centurions and ran down to the crowd. When the people saw the commander and the soldiers, they stopped beating Paul.33The commander came up and arrested Paul, ordering that he be bound with two chains. Then he asked who he was and what he had done.34Some in the crowd were shouting one thing, and some another. And since the commander could not get at the truth because of the uproar, he ordered that Paul be brought into the barracks. 35When Paul reached the steps, he had to be carried by the soldiers because of the violence of the mob. 36For the crowd that followed him kept shouting, “Away with him!”

......as you wrote.....the system still remained (and there was power over the disciples to jail them and even murder them).....but they didn't remain in power. The way I see it is.....God allowed them the time to "be His priests".....but, in His perfect timing.....He took that seat back for all of history to see. As jgr posted a while back (I'm paraphrasing) "Isaiah prophesied it.....Jesus confirmed it....and Josephus recorded it in history". The landowner came in 70 AD.....just as in the parable of the evil tenants that Jesus spoke of:

Matthew 21:33-46 ~
The Parable of the Wicked Tenants
(Mark 12:1-12; Luke 20:9-18)

33Listen to another parable: There was a landowner who planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a winepress in it, and built a tower. Then he rented it out to some tenants and went away on a journey.34When the harvest time drew near, he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his share of the fruit. 35But the tenants seized his servants. They beat one, killed another, and stoned a third.36Again, he sent other servants, more than the first group. But the tenants did the same to them.37Finally, he sent his son to them. ‘They will respect my son,’ he said.38But when the tenants saw the son, they said to one another, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and take his inheritance.’ 39So they seized him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.40Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard returns, what will he do to those tenants?”41“He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they replied, “and will rent out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him his share of the fruit at harvest time.”42Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:
‘The stone the builders rejected

has become the cornerstone.
This is from the Lord,

and it is marvelous in our eyes’
k ?43Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. 44He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed.l45When the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they knew that Jesus was speaking about them. 46Although they wanted to arrest Him, they were afraid of the crowds, because the people regarded Him as a prophet.

The support you submit to support your position is (ironically) the false charge of the apostate Jews against Paul in Acts 21:28: Men of Israel, help us! This is the man who teaches everywhere against our people and against our law and against this place. Furthermore, he has brought Greeks into the temple and defiled this holy place.”

This highlights the impotence of your position.

This place was no longer "holy" after God left it when Jesus gave up the ghost and ripped the curtain in two. You cannot divorce God from His holiness.

After the cross, the old covenant lost its power, position and purpose. It was rendered eternally redundant.

The main difference between the Old Testament period and the New Testament period is their perspective of Jesus Christ! The Old Testament was looking forward to the coming Messiah. The New Testament reveals His arrival and precious work on man’s behalf. As we dig deeper and compare both, we notice that there are notable differences between the two arrangements. We see a significant move:

· From the shadow and type to the substance and reality
· From the imperfect to the perfect
· From the inadequate to the all-sufficient.
· From the physical to the spiritual
· From the external to the internal
· From the natural to the supernatural
· From the temporary to the eternal
· From the earthly to the heavenly
· From the national to the international
· From the conditional to the unconditional

These two economies couldn’t be more diverse. The improvement is obvious, substantial and indisputable. The repercussions are even greater for mankind. What was long-anticipated by the old covenant prophets has now wonderfully arrived. The appearance of Israel’s Messiah was the pivotal moment in history and the catalyst for a colossal transformative change.

Christ testifies perpetually in heaven, presenting the value of His sacrifice before the Father. Hebrews 9:12 says: “Neither by the Blood of goats and calves, but by His own Blood He entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.”

Hebrews 9:24 says: “For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into Heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us.”

The blood is a continually reminder that the work is done, and speaks in heaven for the elect. Hebrews 12:24 says, “And Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.”

God looks upon the blood and the sacrifice of his Son and is well pleased. This statement is paralleled in the blood of the Passover in which the Lord said, “And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are and when I see the Blood I will pass over you” (Exodus 12:13).
 
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sovereigngrace

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This does nothing to address what I wrote.

My point is about the Temple standing....the Levitical priests and religious leaders still having political power (even after 30 AD....until 70 AD)........and Jesus telling a parable about the kingdom of God being ripped away from them (and it was!). 70 AD was the end of ancient mosaic judaism. The kingdom of God was rightly claimed by our eternal High Priest (Christ) for all to see.

The old covenant only served as a temporary imperfect shadow and type until the substance and reality came. The old covenant was merely forward looking, not backward looking as Preterists and Premils imagine. There was no longer any purpose for it after the introduction of the new covenant in Christ's blood.

We have entered into a new divine arrangement that supersedes the shadow, type and figure. Man has one true heavenly high priest and requires none other. For our Premillennial brethren to expect others is a mistake and underlines the dangers of the Premillennial teaching. It is totally wrong to imagine that the new covenant would be replaced by the old in the future. This will never (or can never) happen.

The Hebrew writer is constantly pointing the Jews away from the now worthless abolished old arrangement and towards Christ who is the fulfilment. Once the reality and substance came the type and shadow were rendered useless. Christ is the substance, the true and the real. Colossians 2:16-17 confirms: “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.”

Hebrews makes it clear that the Old Testament sacrifices were a shadow of “good things to come” not ‘a memorial of things that have already been’ as you require.

By their very nature they looked forward to the cross in the old covenant.

To bring back the old covenant is to undermine the new covenant reality. Christ has removed the whole purpose of animal sacrifices. They were simply a signpost to the cross. Hebrews 10:1-2 makes it perfectly clear, “For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.”

Calvary completely finished the Old Testament shadow and type. That is why there is no more sacrifice for sin. I find your belief extraordinary. Honestly! This belief should not be allowed on an evangelical site. It is a direct assault upon the cross. It undermines the finished work of Christ. It abrogates the new covenant.
 
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mkgal1

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AD 70 and the coming of Titus was not the second coming or the coming of Christ. It never will be. No Scripture says that.
Well......the events that took place in 70 AD happened AFTER the Bible was written, but we can look back and see what was written and compare it to what occurred (thanks to historians). And I believe it WAS the "coming of the Son of Man" ....and another phrase Jesus used in His parable of the wicked tenants.....the "coming of the landowner" Matthew 21:33-46

However......as we have to disclose.....that does not mean there will be no more comings of Christ. I believe He will come again, just as we state from the Creeds.
 
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mkgal1

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The support you submit to support your position is (ironically) the false charge of the apostate Jews against Paul in Acts 21:28: Men of Israel, help us! This is the man who teaches everywhere against our people and against our law and against this place. Furthermore, he has brought Greeks into the temple and defiled this holy place.”

This highlights the impotence of your position.

This place was no longer "holy" after God left it when Jesus gave up the ghost and ripped the curtain in two. You cannot divorce God from His holiness.

After the cross, the old covenant lost power, position and purpose. It was rendered eternally redundant.
You seem to misunderstand the nuance of what was going on there. Yes.....I agree.....the Temple sanctuary was no longer holy.....that's true (and I NEVER implied that wasn't true).....however, the Temple stood (and God made it impossible for the High priest to ever enter the Holy of Holies again after the Cross by ripping the veil)....the priests were still observing what was written in the Torah.....and the disciples of Christ were still subjected to the authority of the religious leaders. But....that all came to an end in 70 AD. The power was stripped from the religious leaders......just as Jesus had told them it would.

So.....who was right in that power struggle between Jesus and the religious leaders? Who had the "last word" so to speak? God did.....confirming that Jesus was/is God and that Paul/Peter/James/Mary and all of Jesus' followers and prophets were "right". This was their vindication (the destruction of the Temple).
 
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