Baptism while living in sin...

Junia

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Did He not issue forth both blood and water?

...or is this detail irrelevant?

i may be wrong but i was under the impression that baptism is a sign of salvation (a fruit of salvation like good works) and that our actula justification and salvation was by faith in thefinsihed work of Jesus on the cross alone... we saved by faith.
 
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Albion

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i may be wrong but i was under the impression that baptism is a sign of salvation (a fruit of salvation like good works) and that our actula justification and salvation was by faith in thefinsihed work of Jesus on the cross alone... we saved by faith.
Well, it's more than that. However, you are right that it isn't a guarantee of salvation, everything else aside.
 
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Behold

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No one that I've ever heard of, no matter what denomination or non-denomination, thinks that "water can cause salvation."

Are you a Roman Catholic?
Have you ever read a Genuine Catholic Bible?
If you are any of those, then you do believe that "baptismal regeneration" is how, you receive the Holy Spirit.....which of course, is to be born again.
Get a DR Catholic version and read John 3.

Here, let me help..
-
Douay-Rheims Bible
Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be BORN AGAIN OF WATER and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

This is "baptismal REGENERATION", or >being born again<= "of Water".
 
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Francis Drake

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Hi there,

On a couple of occasions I have known churches to baptise candidates who are living with partners unmarried.

I have a couple of questions about this.

First do churches that believe in salvation by baptism believe the candidate is saved in this case?

Secondly should a candidate be re-baptised when they later come to repentance and stop such wilful sinning?

Sadly some churches don't check out such issues before the event.
Why do you presume the absence of a formal marriage certificate is a sin?

Marriage certificates, and legally officiated marriages came very late to the scene, but before that, marriage for the common people was invariably just that, common, or more accurately, "Common law".
 
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Albion

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Why do you presume the absence of a formal marriage certificate is a sin?

Marriage certificates, and legally officiated marriages came very late to the scene, but before that, marriage for the common people was invariably just that, common, or more accurately, "Common law".
I don't think Carl had anything like a Common Law marriage in mind, even if they were legal in his state, which is doubtful. What he said was "living with a partner unmarried."
 
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Francis Drake

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I don't think Carl had anything like a Common Law marriage in mind, even if they were legal in his state, which is doubtful. What he said was "living with a partner unmarried."
It might be better for Carl to answer that.
 
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Albion

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It might be better for Carl to answer that.
Of course, but for anyone who's interested, a Common Law marriage and "living together" or "living in sin" are not the same thing.
 
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Radagast

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I don't think you will find the word 'again' in the Greek...

Well, actually you do.

John 3:3: Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born ἄνωθεν he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

That Greek word is usually translated "again," thus "born again."

Several translators think that, in context, the Greek word means "from above," and the NET, NABRE, NRSV, and a few other translations have "born from above."
 
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Radagast

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Get a DR Catholic version and read John 3.

Here, let me help..
-
Douay-Rheims Bible
Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be BORN AGAIN OF WATER and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

The NABRE, the latest Catholic Bible, does not translate it that way: scripture
 
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Carl Emerson

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Well, actually you do.

John 3:3: Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born ἄνωθεν he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

That Greek word is usually translated "again," thus "born again."

Several translators think that, in context, the Greek word means "from above," and the NET, NABRE, NRSV, and a few other translations have "born from above."

Yes - thanks for the correction, the rendering 'born from above' is contextual.
 
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Francis Drake

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Yes living with a partner unmarried. No legal document or marriage ceremony.
So why is that a sin, when for thousands of years it was the norm?
As the gospel was rapidly spreading with the early church, tens of thousands must have been baptised in that state with no thought to question it!

In short, there is no scriptural requirement for getting your marriage officiated by a judge, local marriage official, pastor, priest, or anyone else.
Such things are usually based on the current law of the land, religious or tribal tradition and nothing else.
 
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Francis Drake

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My comment was in the context of todays society where marriage is defined in this way.

We are not in ancient times any more.
So tradition trumps truth, and you make something God doesn't count sin, into sin, and judge God's children on a falsehood.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Yes, I do.



I doubt that too.



That may be true. Could it have something to do with the Saudi law making atheism a crime?

Exactly - Baptism certificate - evidence of faith ! even for atheists.

Anything for the big money...
 
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Carl Emerson

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So tradition trumps truth, and you make something God doesn't count sin, into sin, and judge God's children on a falsehood.

Nonsense - if you cant define marriage, you cant define adultery.

Marriage doesn't just involve individuals out of social context - never has.
 
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Francis Drake

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Nonsense - if you cant define marriage, you cant define adultery.

Marriage doesn't just involve individuals out of social context - never has.
But you are not defining marriage, you are merely defining a marriage certificate!
 
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Carl Emerson

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I wrote this about 10 years ago - maybe it will help to explain my position.

Immorality and the Church


A time for cleansing….


In this late hour, Satan has a plan to dis-empower God’s people and weaken His Church by ‘normalising’ immorality.

Godly hatred of sexual sin is considered ‘old testament’ by many these days, and the ‘New Covenant’ is seen as a soft option as if God has somehow relented of His staunch moral position.

Infidelity among institutional church leaders is common and parents are finding it harder to argue the case for moral purity, when state run education provides all the tools for a ‘safe’ and guiltless immoral lifestyle.

Casual sex is expected of today’s youth and this pressure is impacting the Church.

Clearly there is grace for those who err and seek God’s forgiveness with repentance, but often this is not sought, as if somehow Jesus will ‘understand’.

What does the Bible say about keeping pure and saving one’s self for marriage.

Firstly, Marriage needs to be defined, as young people can consider themselves married simply by committing to an exclusive immoral relationship.

If marriage is not defined then Adultery and fornication are equally vague terms.

Marriage has four essential elements, the spiritual, the social, the legal and the physical.

Marriage includes the exchanging of vows before God and friends, entering a contract under law and adopting an exclusive ‘one flesh’ relationship.

Marriage is a God ordained institution within which He intended children to be raised.

Jesus acknowledges the place of marriage in Matt 19: 4-6. and adultery as unfaithfulness in marriage in v9.

Adultery then is sexual behaviour that violates the exclusive marriage covenant.

Fornication is a sexual act without having a married relationship. inappropriate contentography is commonly an associated sin and is derived from the same Greek word (inappropriate contenteia).

Now many of us are aware of the Ten Commandments handed to Moses on a Stone Tablet.

Commandment Seven is not to commit adultery.

Jesus referred to these commandments saying’ Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments and so teaches others shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven’.

In fact the requirements of Jesus are more strict than the Commandments, as Jesus said the desire of the heart to commit adultery, is as serious as committing the sin physically.

Jesus said ‘depart from me you who practice lawlessness…’ (Matt 7:23) so the rejection of Law and adopting an amoral world view is a serious spiritual offence.

Clearly Jesus broke the power of the law through the cross (Eph2:15) but the law remains Gods standard to expose sin. (Rom 7:7) In fact sin is lawlessness (John 3:4)

In Hebrews 10 we read “For if we go on sinning wilfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins but a certain terrifying expectation of judgement…. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses, dies without mercy on the testament of two or three witnesses. How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled underfoot the Son of God and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified and has insulted the Spirit of Grace?

So the consequences of casting aside New Covenant Grace is more severe than casting aside Old Testament Law.

What then does the New Testament say about Adultery and Fornication?

Jesus said “Out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders…. these are the things that defile... (Matt 15:20)

The disciples as Fathers of the early church were equally clear about the sin of fornication. They included sexual sin among the top four sins to avoid, along with the drinking of blood. (Acts 15:29) All the sins on this list resulted in personal spiritual defilement.

When Paul wrote about the sins of the flesh, fornication (in the Greek text) was at the top of the list… Gal 5:16-21 “The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.”

The New Testament writer of Hebrews gives similar warnings: “Marriage should be honoured by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.” Heb 13:4

So the Gospel of Jesus is not a soft option allowing some more liberal approach to sexual sin, rather the opposite, we are called to purity – not in action only, but also in thought.

How then do we respond when falling short of these higher standards?
Paul tackles this issue in detail in Romans 7.
It will be an intense personal battle, and we all fail in some measure.

Firstly “There is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus… “

Secondly, we have been given all the spiritual tools to break the power of sin and be fully restored - through confession, repentance, renunciation, cleansing and healing by the power of the Holy Spirit in the Name of Jesus.

We have been talking about two threads of Gods Grace that work together. God’s Law that exposes sin and God’s Kindness that leads us to repentance. (Rom 2:4)

Lets walk together in the light, renouncing secret and shameful ways (2 Cor 4:2) and restore power to His body so we can be fit for the battle in this late hour.
 
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Carl Emerson

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i may be wrong but i was under the impression that baptism is a sign of salvation (a fruit of salvation like good works) and that our actula justification and salvation was by faith in thefinsihed work of Jesus on the cross alone... we saved by faith.

Yes I agree - be aware though that branches of the church today see the 'sacraments' as essential for salvation because the early church fathers saw things this way before 'salvation by grace' officially became a thing in church circles.
 
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