Trump declares houses of worship immediately "essential" and will enforce

From the Bishop-elect of the Episcopal Church in the Diocese of Missouri, Deon K. Johnson (Church FB site):

"The work of the church is essential.
The work of caring for the lonely, the marginalized, and the oppressed is essential.
The work of speaking truth to power and seeking justice is essential.
The work of being a loving, liberating, and life giving presence in the world is essential.
The work of welcoming the stranger, the refugee and the undocumented is essential.
The work of reconciliation and healing and caring is essential.
The church does not need to “open” because the church never “closed”. We who make up the Body of Christ, the church, love God and our neighbors and ourselves so much that we will stay away from our buildings until it is safe. We are the church."

NotreDame said:

Better pray those conservative justices aren’t like Scalia! After all, Scalia penned Employment Division v. Smith, and held a state law or regulation that infringes upon a religious practice or religiously motivated practice is permitted where the law is of general applicability and neutral.

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NotreDame said:

Ninth Circuit Rejects Religious Freedom Challenge to California Closure, One Judge Dissents


Ninth Circuit Rejects Religious Freedom Challenge to California Closure, One Judge Dissents

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Do you see the main difference between that case and the Kansas case as a difference of interpretation, or just the wording of the orders? It sounded like the Kansas order singled out churches. The argument of the dissenting judge in the California case seemed to argue that relegating them to phase 3 did as well.

https://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article242100806.html


The Kansas case was eventually settled with the two churches.

Kansas Gov. Laura Kelly, churches reach settlement

Certainly treating churches more restrictively than non-religious gatherings of similar kind would be a problem. But churches have enough special characteristics that in the end it will make sense to have specific guidance for them, just as there is specific guidance for lots of industries and kinds of shops.

I would argue that treating churches less restrictively than other activities with similar characteristics would also be a problem, because it would be establishing religion.

hedrick said:

Certainly treating churches more restrictively than non-religious gatherings of similar kind would be a problem. But churches have enough special characteristics that in the end it will make sense to have specific guidance for them, just as there is specific guidance for lots of industries and kinds of shops.

I would argue that treating churches less restrictively than other activities with similar characteristics would also be a problem, because it would be establishing religion.

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As an atheist I’d also oppose any attempt to impose stricter restrictions on churches than there are on non-religious gatherings. People should have a right to practice their religion within the bounds of public safety. I just don’t believe they should get extra privileges that risk public health.

Not to take the thread in a different direction but does anyone know if the President has attended any church services this weekend after demanding they be opened in the middle of a pandemic?

GoldenBoy89 said:

Not to take the thread in a different direction but does anyone know if the President has attended any church services this weekend after demanding they be opened in the middle of a pandemic?

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Perhaps the Church of the Blessed Rolling Greens ... ???

Fore !!!

A_Thinker said:

Perhaps the Church of the Rolling Greens ... ???

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GoldenBoy89 said:

Not to take the thread in a different direction but does anyone know if the President has attended any church services this weekend after demanding they be opened in the middle of a pandemic?

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Has he attended a church service any weekend?

Kentonio said:

Has he attended a church service any weekend?

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This is not an entirely fair question. I don’t for a minute think that Trump is actually a Christian. But for the president to go to a church creates a major production. Presidents can reasonably judge that this isn’t a good idea.

hedrick said:

This is not an entirely fair question. I don’t for a minute think that Trump is actually a Christian.

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Just FYI: Donald has claimed to be the victim of Christian persecution, therefore it's against the rules to claim he isn't a Christian.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ts-could-be-tied-to-being-a-strong-christian/

But for the president to go to a church creates a major production. Presidents can reasonably judge that this isn’t a good idea.

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Donald has never been one to shy away from "major productions."

hedrick said:

This is not an entirely fair question. I don’t for a minute think that Trump is actually a Christian. But for the president to go to a church creates a major production. Presidents can reasonably judge that this isn’t a good idea.

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I’d say the question from @GoldenBoy89 isn’t completely fair for this reason. I’d say @Kentonio is completely fair. Trump not going this weekend is fine because it is such a hassle and it’s the last thing a church would need at this time. Him never going though flies directly in the face of church being essential, especially if he is a Christian. Missing a week here or there or even two-three months is “okay.” But missing church for four years or seven decades is not.

GreatLakes4Ever said:

I’d say the question from @GoldenBoy89 isn’t completely fair for this reason. I’d say @Kentonio is completely fair. Trump not going this weekend is fine because it is such a hassle and it’s the last thing a church would need at this time. Him never going though flies directly in the face of church being essential, especially if he is a Christian. Missing a week here or there or even two-three months is “okay.” But missing church for four years or seven decades is not.

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Trump isn’t going to church because he’d rather play golf. It’s harder to cheat at Church.

GoldenBoy89 said:

Not to take the thread in a different direction but does anyone know if the President has attended any church services this weekend after demanding they be opened in the middle of a pandemic?

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We'd have to see if he is more likely to go now than over the past, say, 10 years or so. Any guesses how often that was?

Hazelelponi said:

There were very few churches that stayed open, nearly all complied.

The problem here is it's not Biblical to do so... nor is it constitutional.

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The bible speaks about snake handling, nothing about virus handling, so it's not antibiblical to close churches for a virus.

If 300 people are in a liquor store, then yes, they would be closed down too as "non-essential".

I've never seen more than a dozen people inside a liquor store.

This isn't about fairness. It is about risk of contracting a disease.

GoldenBoy89 said:

Not to take the thread in a different direction but does anyone know if the President has attended any church services this weekend after demanding they be opened in the middle of a pandemic?

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Has he attended any church service before the pandemic?

Church that won legal battle to reopen early halts services due to several members testing positive for COVID19.

Kentucky pastor spars with Beshear after 18 church members test positive for COVID-19

camille70 said:

Church that won legal battle to reopen early halts services due to several members testing positive for COVID19.

Kentucky pastor spars with Beshear after 18 church members test positive for COVID-19

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Shocked am I.

camille70 said:

Church that won legal battle to reopen early halts services due to several members testing positive for COVID19.

Kentucky pastor spars with Beshear after 18 church members test positive for COVID-19

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Thoughts and prayers?