LDS Alright then, Mormons, let's have it out

mmksparbud said:

Totally biblical. Your position is not.
The original wording for the word "good" is functional.

25 and~he~will~DO(V) (וַיַּעַשׂ / wai'ya'as) Elohiym (אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him) AT (אֶת / et) LIVING (חַיַּת / hhai'yat) the~LAND (הָאָרֶץ / ha'a'rets) to~KIND~her (לְמִינָהּ / lê'mi'nah) and~AT (וְאֶת / wê'et) the~BEAST (הַבְּהֵמָה / ha'be'hey'mah) to~KIND~her (לְמִינָהּ / lê'mi'nah) and~AT (וְאֵת / wê'eyt) ALL (כָּל / kol) TREADER (רֶמֶשׂ / re'mes) the~GROUND (הָאֲדָמָה / ha'a'da'mah) to~KIND~him (לְמִינֵהוּ / lê'mi'ney'hu) and~he~will~SEE(V) (וַיַּרְא / wai'yar) Elohiym (אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him) GIVEN.THAT (כִּי / ki) FUNCTIONAL (טוֹב / tov)

RMT: and Elohiym made living ones of the land to her kind and the beast to her kind and all of the treaders of the ground to his kind, and Elohiym saw that it was functional,

He told them to reproduce:
28 and~he~will~much~KNEEL(V) (וַיְבָרֶךְ / wai'va'rekh) AT~them(m) (אֹתָם / o'tam) Elohiym (אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him) and~he~will~SAY(V) (וַיֹּאמֶר / wai'yo'mer) to~~them(m) (לָהֶם / la'hem) Elohiym (אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him) !(mp)~REPRODUCE(V) (פְּרוּ / pê'ru) and~!(mp)~INCREASE(V) (וּרְבוּ / ur'vu) and~!(mp)~FILL(V) (וּמִלְאוּ / u'mil'u) AT (אֶת / et) the~LAND (הָאָרֶץ / ha'a'rets) and~!(mp)~SUBDUE(V)~her (וְכִבְשֻׁהָ / wê'khiv'shu'ah) and~!(mp)~RULE(V) (וּרְדוּ / ur'du) in~FISH (בִּדְגַת / bid'gat) the~SEA (הַיָּם / hai'yam) and~in~FLYER (וּבְעוֹף / uv'oph) the~SKY~s2 (הַשָּׁמַיִם / ha'sha'ma'yim) and~in~ALL (וּבְכָל / uv'khol) LIVING (חַיָּה / hhai'yah) the~TREAD(V)~ing(fs) (הָרֹמֶשֶׂת / ha'ro'me'set) UPON (עַל / al) the~LAND (הָאָרֶץ / ha'a'rets)

RMT: and Elohiym exalted them, and Elohiym said to them, reproduce and increase and fill the land and subdue her, and rule in the fish of the sea and in the flyers of the skies, and in all the living ones treading upon the land,

31 and~he~will~SEE(V) (וַיַּרְא / wai'yar) Elohiym (אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him) AT (אֶת / et) ALL (כָּל / kol) WHICH (אֲשֶׁר / a'sher) he~did~DO(V) (עָשָׂה / a'sah) and~LOOK (וְהִנֵּה / wê'hin'neyh) FUNCTIONAL (טוֹב / tov) MANY (מְאֹד / mê'od) and~he~will~EXIST(V) (וַיְהִי / wai'hi) EVENING (עֶרֶב / e'rev) and~he~will~EXIST(V) (וַיְהִי / wai'hi) MORNING (בֹקֶר / vo'qer) DAY (יוֹם / yom) the~SIXTH (הַשִּׁשִּׁי / ha'shi'shi)

RMT: and Elohiym saw all which he made, and look, it is very functional, and evening existed and morning existed, a sixth day,[12]

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mmksparbud said:

Yes, God has always existed. You have no idea about matter that is from JS entirely. God created that earth. Your prophet is wrong. Jesus created from nothing. Our God is able---yours isn't.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

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He is the way said:

You don't even know if they had started puberty before they partook of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. It is an assumption on your part.

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He is the way said:

God has always existed therefore matter has always existed because God is not nothing.

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mmksparbud said:

LOL!!! So you think God is so inept that He creates them prepubescent, but then tells them to reproduce!! You really think God is that dumb????!!! What do you think functional means---not able to?
Come on--it is no assumption---God made them fully functional, and tells them to reproduce. You really think God is going to tell them to reproduce and made them unable to do so! Sorry---maybe your god is that dumb---ours isn't!!

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mmksparbud said:

Yah---right---you keep telling yourself that. That is a truly ridiculous statement. Why do y90u co09unt God as a part of His creation? He creates, that is what He does. So you think that God simply could not create anything unless there is this matter? You know nothing about matter. God created this planet---He created the earth on it--before He did so ---only He, Jesus and the Holy Spirit existed---except for one thing---He created all the other planets out there and all the other galaxies out there before He even started on this earth. Not to mention billions of angels and who knows what other beings. God needs nothi8ng in order to create what He wants. You have no concept of the power of God for JS had no idea either and couldn't tell you what to think about it. Look up sound waves--research it out,

Do you not know that when God speaks that is what happens?

Gen_1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

That is what it says in many verses---God said and it was so. His voice commands anything He says to appear. You serve such a puny God. Jump the fence and come on over to where there is power in His word--much more power in His blood!!

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

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He is the way said:

You are also making assumptions because you were either not there or don't remember.

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He is the way said:

So you believe that God is nothing? Or do you believe that God has not always existed? It must be one or the other.

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Peter1000 said:

This will be my last response to you unless you wish me to tell you more.

JS did not leave Christ. Jesus Christ is the centerpiece of the Church of Jesus Christ.

Important authority to act in the name of Jesus Christ was restored to him by men who held those keys at the time of Christ. Unless you have this power and authority you cannot have a true Church.

The restoration of apostles and prophets, with Jesus Christ as the chief cornerstone was the foundation of the Church of Jesus Christ of First-century Saints.
Ephesians 2:19-21 King James Version (KJV)
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God.
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone.
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

IOW, without the true foundation of the church, the church does not fit together properly and cannot grow into an holy temple in the Lord.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has that full true foundation because of the restoration of that foundation by Jesus Christ through JS.

It is my testimony that it is true what I am telling you. I have studied and prayed and the Holy Spirit has told me that Jesus Christ is our Savior, the most important teaching in our church. Jesus Christ is the centerpiece of the church. Jesus Christ is the reason there is a Church of Jesus Christ. It is all about Jesus Christ.

The BOM does nothing but testify of Jesus Christ. It is not a new Bible, it is a second witness of Jesus Christ and his saving power, to save all mankind from their sins. It goes hand in hand with the Bible to show the testimony of who lived in the Americas, 10,000 miles from Jerusalem, that they too saw the living, resurrected Jesus Christ in his fullness, and testify that he lives and is the Savior of the world.
2 separate peoples now have written their scriptures about the same man, Jesus Christ. 10,000 miles apart in a time when there was no means of communication between them. There is still a day in the future when you will see the power of the Bible and the BOM working hand in hand to convince the gentiles and the Jews of the truthfulness of the man Jesus Christ. They are a powerful witness together of the reality of Jesus Christ our Savior.

The BOM also makes clear some aspects of the Bible that are not clear.

Enough, if you wish to hear more let me know.

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He is the way said:

What it comes down to is keeping the commandments of LOVE:

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:13 - 14)

13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

(New Testament | John 14:21)

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

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mmksparbud said:

I can read what God said and did---no assumptions. You simply can't face the truth. God said what He did. I don't need to have been there---and of course I don't remember for there is no such thing as these spirit children---more untruth from your favorite author. But you don't want to believe the bible, just the uninformed words of JS They were functional and told to reproduce. The fall was not needed.
God has always existedd---your statement is nonsense for God needs nothing elser but Himself to create. There is no "one or the other"---it is God created with the power of His voice and breath, just as the bible says. His power is greater than JS could ever imagine--nor you, nor I even. For He is above all things. Far greater than we can understand. JS and BY and all the others have no clue. Just something that you can not face up to.

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dzheremi said:

First of all, this 'age of accountability' nonsense is just something that you picked up (no doubt unknowingly) from the Roman Catholic Church. It has no currency outside of that. Christ not only said to let the children come unto Him (Matthew 19:14), but there are likewise accounts of entire households being baptized. Acts 16:33 concerning the jailer even specifies that he and his entire household were baptized, so while it doesn't specify (i.e., "including children"), it does include anyone who would've made up said household.

And that makes sense when you think of baptism as the means of formal entrance into the Church (not an admission of 'sin' or guilt on the part of the baby; we don't teach such things). This is as it has been practiced since the very beginning of Christianity, as our apostle, the Apostle of Christ and Gospel writer St. Mark baptized his successor, St. Anianos (68-82 AD), together with his entire family. There was apparently no thought to 'accountability' then.





"Forbid them not..." -- you mean like by denying them baptism based on some arbitrary year landmark? Hahaha.



2 Maccabees 7:28 (a part of the Orthodox and Catholic biblical canons) says otherwise:

I beg you, my child, to look at the heaven and the earth and see everything that is in them, and recognize that God did not make them out of things that existed. And in the same way the human race came into being.

+++

And seeing as how you recognize completely non-scriptural writings of spurious authenticity (BOM, PoGP, D&C), you really have no grounds to object to this as a Protestant might (because 2 Maccabees was written in Greek, and it was part of the LXX, but Protestants follow the Masoretic text, which collects the Hebrew books but omits Greek works such as this one).

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Randy777 said:

The body of Christ, not meaning Mormons, has many compassionate and caring people who proclaim faith in Jesus this day just like in JS's day. JS left that faith and according to you others that followed him, not Jesus, wrote the book of Mormon. The testimony Jesus gave was written long ago. It's called the NT. It was written for future generations. I invite you back to the faith.

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He is the way said:

God is NOT dead nor has He lost His voice. He continues to speak to us through His prophets:

(New Testament | Ephesians 2:19 - 22)

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

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Randy777 said:

It is also written:
From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been subjected to violence, d and violent people have been raiding it. 13For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. 15Whoever has ears, let them hear.

The gospel is preached from the NT.

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dzheremi said:

Are you going bother to actually read the posts you supposedly respond to, or are you just that committed to mouthing off like an idiot? It literally says in the post you just quoted (bold and underlining added, since I guess italics alone aren't enough to drive the point home): "And that makes sense when you think of baptism as the means of formal entrance into the Church (not an admission of 'sin' or guilt on the part of the baby; we don't teach such things)"

And as I know has been explained to our resident Mormons many times, God is not part of created things, so there is absolutely no contradiction between the doctrine of creation ex nihilo and asserting the preexistence of God. None whatsoever. God exists outside of time, and before all things.

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dzheremi said:

Is this where we're supposed to pretend that JS never heard or read Isaiah before, so it's totally a miracle that he could then tie his 'revelation' of the BOM to a very specific and self-interested reading of OT prophecies?

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He is the way said:

The gospel is also preached from the Book of Mormon as prophesied in the Old Testament:

(Old Testament | Isaiah 29:10 - 14)

10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
13 ¶ Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.

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