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dzheremi

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General reminder from the OP (me): This thread is for Mormon complaints concerning Christianity, so that they can have a place to question or complain about Christian doctrine without taking other threads off-topic.

This thread is NOT for Mormons to preach their BOM, unless what they have to say is related to how Mormonism somehow corrects the problems they have with Christianity. When that's the case, they should show how that is.
 
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mmksparbud

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This will be my last response to you unless you wish me to tell you more.

JS did not leave Christ. Jesus Christ is the centerpiece of the Church of Jesus Christ.

Important authority to act in the name of Jesus Christ was restored to him by men who held those keys at the time of Christ. Unless you have this power and authority you cannot have a true Church.

The restoration of apostles and prophets, with Jesus Christ as the chief cornerstone was the foundation of the Church of Jesus Christ of First-century Saints.
Ephesians 2:19-21 King James Version (KJV)
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God.
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone.
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

IOW, without the true foundation of the church, the church does not fit together properly and cannot grow into an holy temple in the Lord.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has that full true foundation because of the restoration of that foundation by Jesus Christ through JS.

It is my testimony that it is true what I am telling you. I have studied and prayed and the Holy Spirit has told me that Jesus Christ is our Savior, the most important teaching in our church. Jesus Christ is the centerpiece of the church. Jesus Christ is the reason there is a Church of Jesus Christ. It is all about Jesus Christ.

The BOM does nothing but testify of Jesus Christ. It is not a new Bible, it is a second witness of Jesus Christ and his saving power, to save all mankind from their sins. It goes hand in hand with the Bible to show the testimony of who lived in the Americas, 10,000 miles from Jerusalem, that they too saw the living, resurrected Jesus Christ in his fullness, and testify that he lives and is the Savior of the world.
2 separate peoples now have written their scriptures about the same man, Jesus Christ. 10,000 miles apart in a time when there was no means of communication between them. There is still a day in the future when you will see the power of the Bible and the BOM working hand in hand to convince the gentiles and the Jews of the truthfulness of the man Jesus Christ. They are a powerful witness together of the reality of Jesus Christ our Savior.

Enough, if you wish to hear more let me know.

Yes, Jesus does stand prominent in your church---unfortunately, it is not the Jesus Christ of the bible. It is not Jesus the creator of all FROM NOTHING, it is not the Jesus that is the ONE AND ONLY TRUE SON OF GOD, it is not the Jesus that created Lucifer--therefore is not a brother to Satan, it is not the Jesus that needed no help from a fallen angel to bring about children by Adam and Eve, it is not the Jesus that was from everlasting to everlasting the same and equal to God not a Jesus that is the product of God and some heavenly mother and is one of many of His sons, but was incarnated as fully human yet God by the Holy Spirit in order to save us---not in order to prove to His Father that He is worthy of being a god! In short---IT IS NOT THE SAME JESUS.
 
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Peter1000

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Yes, Jesus does stand prominent in your church---unfortunately, it is not the Jesus Christ of the bible. It is not Jesus the creator of all FROM NOTHING, it is not the Jesus that is the ONE AND ONLY TRUE SON OF GOD, it is not the Jesus that created Lucifer--therefore is not a brother to Satan, it is not the Jesus that needed no help from a fallen angel to bring about children by Adam and Eve, it is not the Jesus that was from everlasting to everlasting the same and equal to God not a Jesus that is the product of God and some heavenly mother and is one of many of His sons, but was incarnated as fully human yet God by the Holy Spirit in order to save us---not in order to prove to His Father that He is worthy of being a god! In short---IT IS NOT THE SAME JESUS.
Sorry, it is the same Jesus as is in the Bible. There can be only 1 Jesus, we may think of him differently, but there is only 1. Thank you.

BTW, does creating lucifer, make Jesus the Father of lucifer? Father, brother, is one better or worse than the other?

Also, who gave satan his roll in the garden of Eden incident?

Was it necessary for satan to deceive Eve in order for the fall to happen?

Was it necessary for the fall to take place in order for Adam and Eve to have children?

Always remember the scriptures are clear: No children before the fall, but children came only after the fall. So how long was Adam and Eve in the Garden? Why did they not have children in the garden? These are all questions that the Bible does not answer. So if you want to speculate go ahead, but your speculation would be unbiblical and worth nothing.
 
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He is the way

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Yes, Jesus does stand prominent in your church---unfortunately, it is not the Jesus Christ of the bible. It is not Jesus the creator of all FROM NOTHING, it is not the Jesus that is the ONE AND ONLY TRUE SON OF GOD, it is not the Jesus that created Lucifer--therefore is not a brother to Satan, it is not the Jesus that needed no help from a fallen angel to bring about children by Adam and Eve, it is not the Jesus that was from everlasting to everlasting the same and equal to God not a Jesus that is the product of God and some heavenly mother and is one of many of His sons, but was incarnated as fully human yet God by the Holy Spirit in order to save us---not in order to prove to His Father that He is worthy of being a god! In short---IT IS NOT THE SAME JESUS.
We do indeed worship the real Jesus of the BIBLE. The Jesus of the Bible did NOT create all from nothing. There has always been something because God has always existed and God is NOT nothing. Jesus is from everlasting to everlasting and is equal to God. That being said He is NOT the only Son of God.
 
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He is the way

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GEE, THESE SURE ARE SOME GREAT CRITICISMS OF CHRISTIANITY, YOU GUYS. :doh:
Members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints do NOT criticize Christianity, we criticize precepts people have about Christianity. Some of those precepts are: saved by grace and faith alone, The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are of the same substance, Jesus is the only Son of God. Was Joseph Smith a true prophet of God. The universe was created out of nothing. Satan is not a son of God, etc.
 
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dzheremi

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Members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints do NOT criticize Christianity

Like fun you don't! It was your stupid comments that led to this thread! Now you'd apparently rather blather on about the BOM than back up what you say. You said "What I am saying is that you like to question my beliefs when your own beliefs are also questionable."

Well...?

a8e8e5_8864ea0a20aa495fbbbb259e7e09abd8~mv2.jpg
 
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mmksparbud

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Sorry, it is the same Jesus as is in the Bible. There can be only 1 Jesus, we may think of him differently, but there is only 1. Thank you.

BTW, does creating lucifer, make Jesus the Father of lucifer? Father, brother, is one better or worse than the other?

Also, who gave satan his roll in the garden of Eden incident?

Was it necessary for satan to deceive Eve in order for the fall to happen?

Was it necessary for the fall to take place in order for Adam and Eve to have children?

Always remember the scriptures are clear: No children before the fall, but children came only after the fall. So how long was Adam and Eve in the Garden? Why did they not have children in the garden? These are all questions that the Bible does not answer. So if you want to speculate go ahead, but your speculation would be unbiblical and worth nothing.

No it is not the same Jesus. And yes--that makes Jesus the creator Father of Jesus. It is more accurate.
Satan took that roll, God allowed---did not send him nor direct Him.
The fall was never needed.
God had already given the command to be fruitful and multiply---Satan had no role in that. So what if there were no children until after the fall!! They were totally and completely functional---BTW--that is the actual rendering of the word "good"--functional. God saw that everything was functional. Therefore they were fully able to conceive children. We've been over this several times. So they did not jump into their sexuality like a couple of rabbits---they were far mare intelligent then animals. It would have occurred without the fall, that is what they were created for. You are speculating that the fall had to take place---the bible does not say that, it says they did not know each other until after the fall---It does clearly state that they were fully functional and had the command from God to conceive children. My "speculation" is far more biblical than Satan had to make them fall in order for them to have children! Ridiculous.
 
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mmksparbud

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We do indeed worship the real Jesus of the BIBLE. The Jesus of the Bible did NOT create all from nothing. There has always been something because God has always existed and God is NOT nothing. Jesus is from everlasting to everlasting and is equal to God. That being said He is NOT the only Son of God.

He is a fake Jesus with very little power and no divinity. Your Jesus is totally not the same. God is not nothing---everything else was! It's ludicris to say that God did not create from nothing because He existed!!! He created from nothing. And Jesus is indeed the One and only natural Son of God. The rest of us are adopted. We must be adopted in order to inherit --Jesus needs no adoption for He is the true Son of God. You literature states God the Father is supreme intelligence, Jesus is a lesser intelligence and the Holy Spirit is a lesser intelligence than Jesus! It is written and I am not going to take the time to hunt that down---you know that is what is said.
 
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Peter1000

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No it is not the same Jesus. And yes--that makes Jesus the creator Father of lucifer. It is more accurate.

Father of evil or brother of evil, which is better, which is worse?

Here is what we absolutely do know from the Bible:
1) God created A&E, and placed them in a garden.
2) God does a strange thing, He places a tree of good and evil right in the middle of the garden, and tells them that if they eat the fruit of this tree they will be kicked out of the garden. ***********If this was his perfect creation and his perfect world for his children, why place this tree to tempt them and possibly screw up his perfect world?
3) A&E were fully functional, but their minds were at the stage of an innocent child, not even knowing that they were naked. And while in this garden, they had no children.
4) Everything was great, A&E spent X amount of time in the garden and enjoyed their surroundings. It was the perfect world for God to bring his children into and keep them safe in his circle of influence. A&E kept the commandment of not eating the forbidden fruit, but did not keep the commandment to multiply. Just perfect, accept they did not have any children to bring into this incredible perfect world. *************Why not?
5) Then God did another strange thing. He allowed satan to come into the garden to tempt and deceive Eve to partake of the forbidden fruit. Why on green acres would God allow such an evil person to get anywhere near Eve, and tear his perfect world apart and get his perfect children thrown out? **********Why?
6) Eve is deceived and partakes, and then gives the fruit to Adam, and he partakes and then God comes to visit. At this time, after they have partaken of the fruit, the bible says that their eyes are open and they knew they were naked and the were ashamed and got fig leaves to cover their nakedness. *********We don't know how long they were in the garden but it is only at this time, says the bible, that they became aware of their fully functional bodies.
7) God kicks them out of the garden and the fall is complete. What a bummer. That pure perfect world destroyed and for what reason? Oh, and now the bible states that Adam knew Eve and they had their first child. Not in the perfect world, but in the fallen world. Wow.

From the bible narrative, it sure is speculative, but it sure looks like God wanted the fall to happen. What do you think?
 
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mmksparbud

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Father of evil or brother of evil, which is better, which is worse?

Here is what we absolutely do know from the Bible:
1) God created A&E, and placed them in a garden.
2) God does a strange thing, He places a tree of good and evil right in the middle of the garden, and tells them that if they eat the fruit of this tree they will be kicked out of the garden. ***********If this was his perfect creation and his perfect world for his children, why place this tree to tempt them and possibly screw up his perfect world?
3) A&E were fully functional, but their minds were at the stage of an innocent child, not even knowing that they were naked. And while in this garden, they had no children.
4) Everything was great, A&E spent X amount of time in the garden and enjoyed their surroundings. It was the perfect world for God to bring his children into and keep them safe in his circle of influence. A&E kept the commandment of not eating the forbidden fruit, but did not keep the commandment to multiply. Just perfect, accept they did not have any children to bring into this incredible perfect world. *************Why not?
5) Then God did another strange thing. He allowed satan to come into the garden to tempt and deceive Eve to partake of the forbidden fruit. Why on green acres would God allow such an evil person to get anywhere near Eve, and tear his perfect world apart and get his perfect children thrown out? **********Why?
6) Eve is deceived and partakes, and then gives the fruit to Adam, and he partakes and then God comes to visit. At this time, after they have partaken of the fruit, the bible says that their eyes are open and they knew they were naked and the were ashamed and got fig leaves to cover their nakedness. *********We don't know how long they were in the garden but it is only at this time, says the bible, that they became aware of their fully functional bodies.
7) God kicks them out of the garden and the fall is complete. What a bummer. That pure perfect world destroyed and for what reason? Oh, and now the bible states that Adam knew Eve and they had their first child. Not in the perfect world, but in the fallen world. Wow.

From the bible narrative, it sure is speculative, but it sure looks like God wanted the fall to happen. What do you think?

2. No---He says they will die if they eat of it. Free will is not free will where there is no choice.
3. Innocent, yes, not stupid. They had nature all around them they could see for themselves quite fine.
and no, they did not have children in the garden, yet.
4. So? They did not get around to it yet! Good grief man--Eve didn't even get a name until after the fall! They were still getting to know each other, maybe we jump into the sack without knowing even the name of the other person, but they did not! The were innocent yes, again, not stupid. So they waited what is the big deal? Nothing states they would not have maybe the very same day they sinned but the fall happened first!
5. Again---free will. Where there is no choice, there is no free will. They did not have to succumb to the sin. God allowed Satan to do what he would do instead of forcing everyone to obey Him. God had the whole universe to think about--they saw and heard Lucifer, this beautiful being --totally malign God's character and lead 1/3 of His angels away from Him. He has waited it out for all the universe to see the end result of Satan's way--it was seen at the cross. That is when all of heaven knew for certain what Satan was---we are the only ones left that have not seen him for what he is.
6. Yes, they now became ashamed, something they had not been before. That is what sin does---0brings shame over what there should be no shame, it sepersters us from God. God had to spill blood that day to cover their nakedness with skins.
7. Of course they had to get kicked out--the bible says it was done so that they would not eat of the tree of life and live forever as sinners. Yes, God was prepared fopr the fall---Jesus is the Lamb slain froim the foundation of the world. Knowing soimething is going to happen does in no way shape or form mean that it was planned to happen with His approval!! I've said this before, I knew my stepdaughter would end up pregnant when I saw how she was behaving with her boyfriend---though I warned her---she got pregnant. Doesn't mean I approved nor planned it. That's what I think.
 
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He is the way

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Like fun you don't! It was your stupid comments that led to this thread! Now you'd apparently rather blather on about the BOM than back up what you say. You said "What I am saying is that you like to question my beliefs when your own beliefs are also questionable."

Well...?

You still believe in baptizing infants don't you? Children under the age of accountability don't need to be baptized.

(New Testament | Matthew 18:1 - 4)

1 AT the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

(New Testament | Matthew 19:13 - 14)

13 ¶ Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them.
14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Is the universe made of nothing? The Bible states:

(Old Testament | Psalms 90:2)

2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.

(Old Testament | Proverbs 26:10)

10 The great God that formed all things both rewardeth the fool, and rewardeth transgressors.

(Old Testament | Isaiah 45:18)

18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

(Old Testament | Jeremiah 33:2)

2 Thus saith the LORD the maker thereof, the LORD that formed it, to establish it; the LORD is his name;

(New Testament | Romans 9:20)

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
 
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He is the way

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No it is not the same Jesus. And yes--that makes Jesus the creator Father of Jesus. It is more accurate.
Satan took that roll, God allowed---did not send him nor direct Him.
The fall was never needed.
God had already given the command to be fruitful and multiply---Satan had no role in that. So what if there were no children until after the fall!! They were totally and completely functional---BTW--that is the actual rendering of the word "good"--functional. God saw that everything was functional. Therefore they were fully able to conceive children. We've been over this several times. So they did not jump into their sexuality like a couple of rabbits---they were far mare intelligent then animals. It would have occurred without the fall, that is what they were created for. You are speculating that the fall had to take place---the bible does not say that, it says they did not know each other until after the fall---It does clearly state that they were fully functional and had the command from God to conceive children. My "speculation" is far more biblical than Satan had to make them fall in order for them to have children! Ridiculous.
References needed.
 
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He is the way

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He is a fake Jesus with very little power and no divinity. Your Jesus is totally not the same. God is not nothing---everything else was! It's ludicris to say that God did not create from nothing because He existed!!! He created from nothing. And Jesus is indeed the One and only natural Son of God. The rest of us are adopted. We must be adopted in order to inherit --Jesus needs no adoption for He is the true Son of God. You literature states God the Father is supreme intelligence, Jesus is a lesser intelligence and the Holy Spirit is a lesser intelligence than Jesus! It is written and I am not going to take the time to hunt that down---you know that is what is said.
God did not create from nothing:

(Old Testament | Proverbs 26:10)

10 The great God that formed all things both rewardeth the fool, and rewardeth transgressors.

(Old Testament | Isaiah 45:18)

18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

There are more scriptures about this, but not one that said from nothing.
 
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mmksparbud

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References needed.


LOL! You ask for references when all your believes are based not on the bible but on JS and speculation! References for what? That children come from God and not because of Satan causing the fall?--Eve knew the child came from God--
Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
How about you give a reference for the believe that they would not have had a child without the fall. I asked you this before---there is no such verse and you speculate in saying so. Anything else yu want references for?
 
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mmksparbud

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God did not create from nothing:

(Old Testament | Proverbs 26:10)

10 The great God that formed all things both rewardeth the fool, and rewardeth transgressors.

(Old Testament | Isaiah 45:18)

18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

There are more scriptures about this, but not one that said from nothing.

Ps 90:2
Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God.
Gen 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Ps 33:6
By the word of the Lord were the heavens made, their starry host by the breath of his mouth.
Is 45:18
For this is what the Lord says— he who created the heavens, he is God;
he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it;
he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited—
Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
Psa 89:11 The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast founded them.
Psa 89:12 The north and the south thou hast created them: Tabor and Hermon shall rejoice in thy name.
Psa 148:2 Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts.
Psa 148:3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.
Psa 148:4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.
Psa 148:5 Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created.
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Neh 9:6 Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.
Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

"Science is now coming to the conclusion that all things are actually created out of the invisible, which they call "nothing." In an article in Scientific American titled "The Inflationary Universe," the following statement was written:
From a historical point of view probably the most revolutionary aspect of the inflationary model is the notion that all matter and energy in the observable universe may have emerged from almost nothing.
The inflationary model of the universe provides a possible mechanism by which the observed universe could have evolved from an infinitesimal region. It is then tempting to go one step further and speculate that the entire universe evolved from literally nothing.
The following comment was found in the New Scientist in an article by Harold Pathoff, titled "Everything for Nothing:"
"And now to the biggest question of all, where did the Universe come from? Or, in modern terminology, what started the big bang? Could quantum fluctuations of empty space have something to do with this as well? Edward Tyron of the City University of New York thought so in 1973 when he proposed that our Universe may have originated as a fluctuation of the vacuum on a large scale, as "simply one of those things which happen from time to time." This idea was later refined and updated within the context of inflationary cosmology by Alexander Vilenkin of Tufts University, who proposed that the universe is created by quantum tunneling from literally nothing into the something we call the Universe.
Edward Tyron, a professor of physics, wrote the following in New Scientist volume 101:
In 1973, I proposed that our Universe had been created spontaneously from nothing (ex nihilo), as a result of established principles of physics. This proposal variously struck people as preposterous, enchanting, or both.
Creation from nothing
Early church fathers such as Theophilus, Justin Martyr, and Origen actually believed that matter was pre-existent with God. Borrowed from platonic thought, these church fathers believed that God "ordered" this chaotic matter and gave it its shape and form, thus resulting in the creation of the world. As McGrath notes, "[m]atter was already present within the universe, and did not require to be created; it needed to be given a definite shape and structure" (McGrath, Theology, p. 38). There are many problems associated with this view (see below), and this is why by the fourth century most Christian theologians rejected this view.

Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God. — Psalm 90:2
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. — Genesis 1:1
By the word of the Lord were the heavens made, their starry host by the breath of his mouth. — Psalm 33:6
For this is what the Lord says— he who created the heavens, he is God;
he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it;
he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited—
he says:“I am the Lord,and there is no other.” — Isaiah 45:18
Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

You go right ahead and hold on to your ineffectual god who can't create from nothing. OUR GOD CAN AND DID. But that, as Hebrews says---takes FAITH, and obviously---Mormons do not have it. and without faith:
Heb_11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
 
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He is the way

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LOL! You ask for references when all your believes are based not on the bible but on JS and speculation! References for what? That children come from God and not because of Satan causing the fall?--Eve knew the child came from God--
Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
How about you give a reference for the believe that they would not have had a child without the fall. I asked you this before---there is no such verse and you speculate in saying so. Anything else yu want references for?
References needed:

The Fall was never needed? Please show a reference for this.
They were totally and completely functional? Please show a reference for this.
Good does NOT mean that they were able to have children. A one year old child is good, but not capable of having children. Many of the things you are taught to believe are NOT Biblical.
 
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He is the way

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Ps 90:2
Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God.
Gen 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Ps 33:6
By the word of the Lord were the heavens made, their starry host by the breath of his mouth.
Is 45:18
For this is what the Lord says— he who created the heavens, he is God;
he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it;
he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited—
Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
Psa 89:11 The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast founded them.
Psa 89:12 The north and the south thou hast created them: Tabor and Hermon shall rejoice in thy name.
Psa 148:2 Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts.
Psa 148:3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.
Psa 148:4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.
Psa 148:5 Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created.
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Neh 9:6 Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.
Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

"Science is now coming to the conclusion that all things are actually created out of the invisible, which they call "nothing." In an article in Scientific American titled "The Inflationary Universe," the following statement was written:
From a historical point of view probably the most revolutionary aspect of the inflationary model is the notion that all matter and energy in the observable universe may have emerged from almost nothing.
The inflationary model of the universe provides a possible mechanism by which the observed universe could have evolved from an infinitesimal region. It is then tempting to go one step further and speculate that the entire universe evolved from literally nothing.
The following comment was found in the New Scientist in an article by Harold Pathoff, titled "Everything for Nothing:"
"And now to the biggest question of all, where did the Universe come from? Or, in modern terminology, what started the big bang? Could quantum fluctuations of empty space have something to do with this as well? Edward Tyron of the City University of New York thought so in 1973 when he proposed that our Universe may have originated as a fluctuation of the vacuum on a large scale, as "simply one of those things which happen from time to time." This idea was later refined and updated within the context of inflationary cosmology by Alexander Vilenkin of Tufts University, who proposed that the universe is created by quantum tunneling from literally nothing into the something we call the Universe.
Edward Tyron, a professor of physics, wrote the following in New Scientist volume 101:
In 1973, I proposed that our Universe had been created spontaneously from nothing (ex nihilo), as a result of established principles of physics. This proposal variously struck people as preposterous, enchanting, or both.
Creation from nothing
Early church fathers such as Theophilus, Justin Martyr, and Origen actually believed that matter was pre-existent with God. Borrowed from platonic thought, these church fathers believed that God "ordered" this chaotic matter and gave it its shape and form, thus resulting in the creation of the world. As McGrath notes, "[m]atter was already present within the universe, and did not require to be created; it needed to be given a definite shape and structure" (McGrath, Theology, p. 38). There are many problems associated with this view (see below), and this is why by the fourth century most Christian theologians rejected this view.

Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God. — Psalm 90:2
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. — Genesis 1:1
By the word of the Lord were the heavens made, their starry host by the breath of his mouth. — Psalm 33:6
For this is what the Lord says— he who created the heavens, he is God;
he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it;
he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited—
he says:“I am the Lord,and there is no other.” — Isaiah 45:18
Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

You go right ahead and hold on to your ineffectual god who can't create from nothing. OUR GOD CAN AND DID. But that, as Hebrews says---takes FAITH, and obviously---Mormons do not have it. and without faith:
Heb_11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
The Biblical God formed the earth and created man from the dust of the earth:

(Old Testament | Genesis 1:27)

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

(Old Testament | Genesis 2:7 - 8)

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
8 ¶ And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Thus formed and created are interchangeable in the Bible.

Matter has therefore ALWAYS existed. God has always existed.
 
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mmksparbud

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References needed:

The Fall was never needed? Please show a reference for this.
They were totally and completely functional? Please show a reference for this.
Good does NOT mean that they were able to have children. A one year old child is good, but not capable of having children. Many of the things you are taught to believe are NOT Biblical.

Totally biblical. Your position is not.
The original wording for the word "good" is functional.

25 and~he~will~DO(V) (וַיַּעַשׂ / wai'ya'as) Elohiym (אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him) AT (אֶת / et) LIVING (חַיַּת / hhai'yat) the~LAND (הָאָרֶץ / ha'a'rets) to~KIND~her (לְמִינָהּ / lê'mi'nah) and~AT (וְאֶת / wê'et) the~BEAST (הַבְּהֵמָה / ha'be'hey'mah) to~KIND~her (לְמִינָהּ / lê'mi'nah) and~AT (וְאֵת / wê'eyt) ALL (כָּל / kol) TREADER (רֶמֶשׂ / re'mes) the~GROUND (הָאֲדָמָה / ha'a'da'mah) to~KIND~him (לְמִינֵהוּ / lê'mi'ney'hu) and~he~will~SEE(V) (וַיַּרְא / wai'yar) Elohiym (אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him) GIVEN.THAT (כִּי / ki) FUNCTIONAL (טוֹב / tov)

RMT: and Elohiym made living ones of the land to her kind and the beast to her kind and all of the treaders of the ground to his kind, and Elohiym saw that it was functional,

He told them to reproduce:
28 and~he~will~much~KNEEL(V) (וַיְבָרֶךְ / wai'va'rekh) AT~them(m) (אֹתָם / o'tam) Elohiym (אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him) and~he~will~SAY(V) (וַיֹּאמֶר / wai'yo'mer) to~~them(m) (לָהֶם / la'hem) Elohiym (אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him) !(mp)~REPRODUCE(V) (פְּרוּ / pê'ru) and~!(mp)~INCREASE(V) (וּרְבוּ / ur'vu) and~!(mp)~FILL(V) (וּמִלְאוּ / u'mil'u) AT (אֶת / et) the~LAND (הָאָרֶץ / ha'a'rets) and~!(mp)~SUBDUE(V)~her (וְכִבְשֻׁהָ / wê'khiv'shu'ah) and~!(mp)~RULE(V) (וּרְדוּ / ur'du) in~FISH (בִּדְגַת / bid'gat) the~SEA (הַיָּם / hai'yam) and~in~FLYER (וּבְעוֹף / uv'oph) the~SKY~s2 (הַשָּׁמַיִם / ha'sha'ma'yim) and~in~ALL (וּבְכָל / uv'khol) LIVING (חַיָּה / hhai'yah) the~TREAD(V)~ing(fs) (הָרֹמֶשֶׂת / ha'ro'me'set) UPON (עַל / al) the~LAND (הָאָרֶץ / ha'a'rets)

RMT: and Elohiym exalted them, and Elohiym said to them, reproduce and increase and fill the land and subdue her, and rule in the fish of the sea and in the flyers of the skies, and in all the living ones treading upon the land,

31 and~he~will~SEE(V) (וַיַּרְא / wai'yar) Elohiym (אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him) AT (אֶת / et) ALL (כָּל / kol) WHICH (אֲשֶׁר / a'sher) he~did~DO(V) (עָשָׂה / a'sah) and~LOOK (וְהִנֵּה / wê'hin'neyh) FUNCTIONAL (טוֹב / tov) MANY (מְאֹד / mê'od) and~he~will~EXIST(V) (וַיְהִי / wai'hi) EVENING (עֶרֶב / e'rev) and~he~will~EXIST(V) (וַיְהִי / wai'hi) MORNING (בֹקֶר / vo'qer) DAY (יוֹם / yom) the~SIXTH (הַשִּׁשִּׁי / ha'shi'shi)

RMT: and Elohiym saw all which he made, and look, it is very functional, and evening existed and morning existed, a sixth day,[12]
 
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mmksparbud

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The Biblical God formed the earth and created man from the dust of the earth:

(Old Testament | Genesis 1:27)

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

(Old Testament | Genesis 2:7 - 8)

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
8 ¶ And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Thus formed and created are interchangeable in the Bible.

Matter has therefore ALWAYS existed. God has always existed.

Yes, God has always existed. You have no idea about matter that is from JS entirely. God created that earth. Your prophet is wrong. Jesus created from nothing. Our God is able---yours isn't.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
 
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