Why you should not go to a physical church

pescador

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COVID-19 cases first contracted by a pastor and his wife ended up spreading to 35 others who attended events at their rural Arkansas church that resulted in three deaths, a troubling report revealed Friday.

An additional 26 cases in the community occurred among people who had contact with those who participated in the church events, according to the study by the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. One of them also died.

The study was released the same day President Donald Trump demanded churches and other houses of worship reopen for services amid the coronavirus crisis. He deemed religious services “essential” and threatened to override governors who ignored his orders for health and safety reasons. Legal experts don’t believe he has the authority to do so.

The church in the CDC study was identified only as “Church A” in a rural Arkansas county of 25,000 people.

The report found that more than a third of 92 people who attended events at the church from March 6 to 11 contracted confirmed cases of COVID-19, and three later died. The pastor, the first known case along with his wife, led a Bible study group at the church before he developed symptoms, according to the study, “High COVID-19 Attack Rate Among Attendees at Events at a Church — Arkansas, March 2020.”


Other events at the church during the time studied included worship services and a special children’s event over three days that involved a community meal, singing and the passing of “offerings” from children to adults. The pastor closed the church March 12 after others in his congregation began to feel ill two days after his initial symptoms developed, according to the study.

“This outbreak highlights the potential for widespread transmission of ... the virus that causes COVID-19, both at group gatherings during church events and within the broader community,” the study warned. “These findings underscore the opportunity for faith-based organizations to prevent COVID-19 by following local authorities’ guidance and the U.S. Government’s Guidelines.”
 

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I cannot imagine social distancing being adhered to at my church at a regular meeting at the building. Given the layout and the culture, maintaining it seems impossible. Since I am pro-life and I do not handle snakes, and I do not want to limit the number of people we admit, or to sing in a mask, I want to keep to virtual services until it is actually safe for us to meet together as normal.
 
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ralliann

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COVID-19 cases first contracted by a pastor and his wife ended up spreading to 35 others who attended events at their rural Arkansas church that resulted in three deaths, a troubling report revealed Friday.

An additional 26 cases in the community occurred among people who had contact with those who participated in the church events, according to the study by the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. One of them also died.

The study was released the same day President Donald Trump demanded churches and other houses of worship reopen for services amid the coronavirus crisis. He deemed religious services “essential” and threatened to override governors who ignored his orders for health and safety reasons. Legal experts don’t believe he has the authority to do so.

The church in the CDC study was identified only as “Church A” in a rural Arkansas county of 25,000 people.

The report found that more than a third of 92 people who attended events at the church from March 6 to 11 contracted confirmed cases of COVID-19, and three later died. The pastor, the first known case along with his wife, led a Bible study group at the church before he developed symptoms, according to the study, “High COVID-19 Attack Rate Among Attendees at Events at a Church — Arkansas, March 2020.”


Other events at the church during the time studied included worship services and a special children’s event over three days that involved a community meal, singing and the passing of “offerings” from children to adults. The pastor closed the church March 12 after others in his congregation began to feel ill two days after his initial symptoms developed, according to the study.

“This outbreak highlights the potential for widespread transmission of ... the virus that causes COVID-19, both at group gatherings during church events and within the broader community,” the study warned. “These findings underscore the opportunity for faith-based organizations to prevent COVID-19 by following local authorities’ guidance and the U.S. Government’s Guidelines.”
When did social distancing start? If this was done before that, why focus on the church. This happened many many places before social distancing started. Plus for a very long time we were told not to wear masks. How long did we go without masks (as more than recommended, but warned it was worse to wear them) before we were told we needed to wear them? Was it before that?
Why are these things put on the Church only? They can practice the guidelines just like anyone or anywhere else.
 
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hedrick

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When did social distancing start? If this was done before that, why focus on the church. This happened many many places before social distancing started. Plus for a very long time we were told not to wear masks. How long did we go without masks (as more than recommended, but warned it was worse to wear them) before we were told we needed to wear them? Was it before that?
Why are these things put on the Church only? They can practice the guidelines just like anyone or anywhere else.
The point isn’t to blame anyone, but to look at the dangers of the activity. There are ways to avoid the danger, such as outdoor meetings or even drive in services. We’re about to try a drive in format, since that’s legal in NJ, and will allow for a real communion service. Even masks would help a lot. Evidence on that is recent, and wouldn’t have been available when the services in the CDC report were conducted.

The mask advice given in March was based on early tests. One fact that everyone should realize is that we’ve been learning a lot, and some early ideas were wrong. The usefulness of masks is now clear, and recent data seems to be showing increased effectiveness.

Church services are an unusually difficult problem, along with schools and gyms. People close together for a long period with limited ventilation. In the case of churches, singing makes it much worse. That doesn’t mean we can’t meet, but there will have to be changes in the way we do it.
 
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ralliann

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COVID-19 cases first contracted by a pastor and his wife ended up spreading to 35 others who attended events at their rural Arkansas church that resulted in three deaths, a troubling report revealed Friday.

An additional 26 cases in the community occurred among people who had contact with those who participated in the church events, according to the study by the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. One of them also died.

The study was released the same day President Donald Trump demanded churches and other houses of worship reopen for services amid the coronavirus crisis. He deemed religious services “essential” and threatened to override governors who ignored his orders for health and safety reasons. Legal experts don’t believe he has the authority to do so.

The church in the CDC study was identified only as “Church A” in a rural Arkansas county of 25,000 people.

The report found that more than a third of 92 people who attended events at the church from March 6 to 11 contracted confirmed cases of COVID-19, and three later died. The pastor, the first known case along with his wife, led a Bible study group at the church before he developed symptoms, according to the study, “High COVID-19 Attack Rate Among Attendees at Events at a Church — Arkansas, March 2020.”


Other events at the church during the time studied included worship services and a special children’s event over three days that involved a community meal, singing and the passing of “offerings” from children to adults. The pastor closed the church March 12 after others in his congregation began to feel ill two days after his initial symptoms developed, according to the study.

“This outbreak highlights the potential for widespread transmission of ... the virus that causes COVID-19, both at group gatherings during church events and within the broader community,” the study warned. “These findings underscore the opportunity for faith-based organizations to prevent COVID-19 by following local authorities’ guidance and the U.S. Government’s Guidelines.”
The point isn’t to blame anyone, but to look at the dangers of the activity. There are ways to avoid the danger, such as outdoor meetings or even drive in services. We’re about to try a drive in format, since that’s legal in NJ, and will allow for a real communion service. Even masks would help a lot. Evidence on that is recent, and wouldn’t have been available when the services in the CDC report were conducted.

The mask advice given in March was based on early tests. One fact that everyone should realize is that we’ve been learning a lot, and some early ideas were wrong. The usefulness of masks is now clear, and recent data seems to be showing increased effectiveness.
Right, but to relese a report concerning Church gatherings, rather than stats from everywhere and anywhere could and should have been used. It's bias IMO. That is the basis for Trump ordering the Churches open. Abortion clinics and liquor stores have remained open as essential, so too should churches. It is discrimination. Let the Pastors and attendiees decide for themselves if it is essential to them to attend physically or not. Social distancing can be done.
I looked up when Arkansas stopped group gatherings. They only began to limit gatherings to 11 or so two days before the Church closed its doors to any gathering what so ever. So it actually went beyond the guidelines. I mean really how many people that went to liquor stores contracted the virus? How many of the workers or patients, or visitors to an abortion clinic get the virus?
 
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hedrick

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Right, but to relese a report concerning Church gatherings, rather than stats from everywhere and anywhere could and should have been used. It's bias IMO. That is the basis for Trump ordering the Churches open. Abortion clinics and liquor stores have remained open as essential, so too should churches. It is discrimination. Let the Pastors and attendiees decide for themselves if it is essential to them to attend physically or not. Social distancing can be done.
This is one a whole pile of things on the CDC web site. One thing they do is release case studies. Neither abortion clinics nor liquor stores have the same kind of dangers as churches. The first is a small number of people, who presumably protect themselves. The second is a limited number of people, most of whom are in the store only briefly. Abortion also shared with other medical care the property that it has to be done soon.

It would be great to depend upon people's willingness to be reasonable, but the postings from people advocating immediate opening don't support the idea that they're likely to do that. Too many of them seem to think that what they do doesn't affect others.
 
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ralliann

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This is one a whole pile of things on the CDC web site. One thing they do is release case studies. Neither abortion clinics nor liquor stores have the same kind of dangers as churches. The first is a small number of people, who presumably protect themselves. The second is a limited number of people, most of whom are in the store only briefly. Abortion also shared with other medical care the property that it has to be done soon.

It would be great to depend upon people's willingness to be reasonable, but the postings from people advocating immediate opening don't support the idea that they're likely to do that. Too many of them seem to think that what they do doesn't affect others.
Able to protect themselves. The order to have smaller gatherings was but only the 9th, two days before the church shut down altogether on the eleventh. the events were from the 6th -11th. there were no restrictions in place for the first three days. That's the kind of stuff I find irritating. Yeah a doc in an abortion clinis would have been wearing a mask to do an abortion, not to protect against covid. When at that time we were warned not to wear masks at all. They said it made it more likely to get it.
 
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Richard T

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In most states there is no conspiracy about the churches. Church settings with singing make a person vulnerable because the the length of time devoted. Additionally, singing projects droplets that can be breathed in from distances greater than 6 feet. Thus, unlike a liquor store where a purchaser might be there 5 minutes or less with fewer potential particles and less people, churches in particular have the best conditions for the virus. https://www.sciencenews.org/article...-why-6-feet-may-not-be-enough-social-distance By the way the church is Greers Ferry First Assembly of God Church. Strange though that we are just now hearing about this.
 
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ralliann

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In most states there is no conspiracy about the churches. Church settings with singing make a person vulnerable because the the length of time devoted. Additionally, singing projects droplets that can be breathed in from distances greater than 6 feet. Thus, unlike a liquor store where a purchaser might be there 5 minutes or less with fewer potential particles and less people, churches in particular have the best conditions for the virus. https://www.sciencenews.org/article...-why-6-feet-may-not-be-enough-social-distance By the way the church is Greers Ferry First Assembly of God Church. Strange though that we are just now hearing about this.
Those things can be mitigated.
 
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nonaeroterraqueous

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I could write about the dangers of driving to work in the morning. People are insane out there. Yet, I continue to do it, because the benefit outweighs the risk. That's a chance I must take.

Don't tell me to stay away from physical attendance because I might die. I will die. So will you. Everyone dies from something. In between now and then you can spend that time standing for the faith, or you can spend that time cowering in fear.
 
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pescador

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I could write about the dangers of driving to work in the morning. People are insane out there. Yet, I continue to do it, because the benefit outweighs the risk. That's a chance I must take.

Don't tell me to stay away from physical attendance because I might die. I will die. So will you. Everyone dies from something. In between now and then you can spend that time standing for the faith, or you can spend that time cowering in fear.

Are you an old man like me? If not, your cavalier attitude towards death may be your end. Don't you want to live a long life?
 
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