The Rapture - 2020?

iamlamad · May 16, 2020

claninja said:
Again this addresses nothing I posted. If a Christian predicts the date of the 2nd coming, and it fails to come to pass, was this false prediction from the Lord or not?

Now you are specific: if a Christian predicts the date of the 2nd coming, it is foolishness: NO ONE will know the date. We don't even have to wait for the date to see: we can know from the written word of God that it is foolishness.

Now, if someone said, "I believe the rapture will happen at the feast of Trumpets" and it turned out to be true, we could congratulation him or her on the way up.

claninja · May 16, 2020

iamlamad said:
Now you are specific: if a Christian predicts the date of the 2nd coming, it is foolishness: NO ONE will know the date. We don't even have to wait for the date to see: we can know from the written word of God that it is foolishness.

Then why did you respond to post 228, which was specific to the OP? The OP made a false prediction that the rapture would occur in late 2019 or early 2020. This failed to come pass. Would this false prediction be a message from God or not?

iamlamad · May 16, 2020

claninja said:
Then why did you respond to post 228, which was specific to the OP? The OP made a false prediction that the rapture would occur in late 2019 or early 2020. This failed to come pass. Would this false prediction be a message from God or not?

When the original post - page 1 - included the 2300 days is if it was future, when in reality it was for Antiochus around 167 BC, I did not finish reading it. Let me look:

"Thus I believe, the `catching away,` the rapture will be either late 2019 or early 2020.

Obviously we haven`t long to wait & see."

She said, "I believe..." that is not a prediction. Why then did you call it a "false prediction?"

ANYone anywhere is free to believe what they choose to believe, right or wrong.

Marilyn C · May 16, 2020

iamlamad said:
When the original post - page 1 - included the 2300 days is if it was future, when in reality it was for Antiochus around 167 BC, I did not finish reading it. Let me look:

"Thus I believe, the `catching away,` the rapture will be either late 2019 or early 2020.

Obviously we haven`t long to wait & see."

She said, "I believe..." that is not a prediction. Why then did you call it a "false prediction?"

ANYone anywhere is free to believe what they choose to believe, right or wrong.

Thank you iamlamad, for yes I saw that we some events were not happening so my year was wrong. However the dates for the events during the trib, I still hold fast to as they match up with the festivals that Israel commemorates during those months. I however missed out a month for Israel mourning, thus my revision.

As to the 2,300 days if you read the context of Dan. 8 we know it starts off about Greece and Persia, but then it jumps to the time when a person will exalt himself (from that region) and take away the sacrifices.

The ongoing descriptions of that person is in Dan. 8: 21: 25, and the time span is in Dan. 9. God is concerned with Israel`s latter time!

claninja · May 16, 2020

iamlamad said:
She said, "I believe..." that is not a prediction.

I'm not following your logic here.

Definition of predict
-a statement that says what you think will happen; the act of making such a statement
-to declare or indicate in advance

Did the OP not publicly post (the act) a message in 2016 regarding a future event (the rapture) that they thought was to occur in late 2019 or early 2020?

That is the very definition of prediction.

iamlamad said:
ANYone anywhere is free to believe what they choose to believe, right or wrong.

I don't disagree people can believe or post whatever they want. However, per scripture, if that said prediction does not come to pass, we know it was not from God.

iamlamad · May 17, 2020

Marilyn C said:
Thank you iamlamad, for yes I saw that we some events were not happening so my year was wrong. However the dates for the events during the trib, I still hold fast to as they match up with the festivals that Israel commemorates during those months. I however missed out a month for Israel mourning, thus my revision.

As to the 2,300 days if you read the context of Dan. 8 we know it starts off about Greece and Persia, but then it jumps to the time when a person will exalt himself (from that region) and take away the sacrifices.

The ongoing descriptions of that person is in Dan. 8: 21: 25, and the time span is in Dan. 9. God is concerned with Israel`s latter time!

Can you rethink this without the 2300 days that were for Antiochus?

iamlamad · May 17, 2020

claninja said:
I'm not following your logic here.

Definition of predict
-a statement that says what you think will happen; the act of making such a statement
-to declare or indicate in advance

Did the OP not publicly post (the act) a message in 2016 regarding a future event (the rapture) that they thought was to occur in late 2019 or early 2020?

That is the very definition of prediction.

I don't disagree people can believe or post whatever they want. However, per scripture, if that said prediction does not come to pass, we know it was not from God.

Everyone has personal beliefs: what someone believes does not a prediction make. Even if someone WRITES OUT what they believe, it is still not a prediction. If someone were to write, 'THIS event will happen HERE at this time," that is a prediction. If someone writes,
"I believe THIS event will happen HERE at this time..." It is not a prediction: it is only a personal belief.

Prediction: definition
a thing predicted; a forecast.

the action of predicting something.
"the prediction of future behavior"

claninja · May 19, 2020

iamlamad said:
Everyone has personal beliefs: what someone believes does not a prediction make.

Yes, not all beliefs are predictions.

If I state I believe the sky is blue, that is not a prediction. If I stated I believe the earth is round, that is not a prediction. If I state Jesus is King, that is not a prediction.

However, stating something will occur within a specific time frame is a prediction. It is the very definition of a prediction.

If I stated I believe the Chicago cubs will win the 2020 world series this fall, that is a prediction.

You are free to disagree with definitions of words, I can't really discuss or debate someone who doesn't follow the definition, as they can make up anything as is evident in your case.

Definition of belief:
an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.

Definition of predict
say or estimate that (a specified thing) will happen in the future or will be a consequence of something.

iamlamad · May 19, 2020

claninja said:
Yes, not all beliefs are predictions.

If I state I believe the sky is blue, that is not a prediction. If I stated I believe the earth is round, that is not a prediction. If I state Jesus is King, that is not a prediction.

However, stating something will occur within a specific time frame is a prediction. It is the very definition of a prediction.

If I stated I believe the Chicago cubs will win the 2020 world series this fall, that is a prediction.

You are free to disagree with definitions of words, I can't really discuss or debate someone who doesn't follow the definition, as they can make up anything as is evident in your case.

Definition of belief:
an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.

Definition of predict
say or estimate that (a specified thing) will happen in the future or will be a consequence of something.

If you believe a prediction and a belief are the same, go with it. But you will be wrong.

If I state I believe the sky is blue, that is not a prediction. No, it is a belief.
If I state Jesus is King, that is not a prediction. Even though you did not say "I believe" in front of "Jesus is King," It is still a belief.

stating something will occur within a specific time frame is a prediction:
I believe the Chicago cubs will win the 2020 world series this fall, that is a prediction. No, it is a belief.

If you said, "I predict that the Chicago cubs will win..." That would be a prediction. Just because someone believers something does not mean they are predicting it.

Perhaps a course in English is in order.

claninja · May 19, 2020

iamlamad said:
If you believe a prediction and a belief are the same, go with it. But you will be wrong.

If I state I believe the sky is blue, that is not a prediction. No, it is a belief.
If I state Jesus is King, that is not a prediction. Even though you did not say "I believe" in front of "Jesus is King," It is still a belief.

stating something will occur within a specific time frame is a prediction:
I believe the Chicago cubs will win the 2020 world series this fall, that is a prediction. No, it is a belief.

If you said, "I predict that the Chicago cubs will win..." That would be a prediction. Just because someone believers something does not mean they are predicting it.

Perhaps a course in English is in order.

A personal belief can be a prediction when it states a specific event will occur within a specific future time frame.

Your argument is nonsensical in that it reasons since a belief cannot be prediction, anyone who makes a prediction doesn't actually believe their own words.

So If I were to make the statement " the rapture will occur in late 2019 or early 2020" it's a prediction as long as I don't believe it? Once I believe it, its no longer a prediction but a personal belief?

that is some jump through hoop logic right there......

iamlamad said:
I believe the Chicago cubs will win the 2020 world series this fall, that is a prediction. No, it is a belief.

Based on ignoring the definition of prediction, sure.

Definition of predict
say or estimate that (a specified thing) will happen in the future or will be a consequence of something.

iamlamad said:
Perhaps a course in English is in order.

Ditto.

Marilyn C · May 19, 2020

iamlamad said:
Can you rethink this without the 2300 days that were for Antiochus?

But then it wouldn`t fit in with God`s declaration in Dan. 9: 24 regarding `your people, the holy city and the Most holy, (sanctuary).

If it was Antiochus who desecrated the sanctuary, and then after 2,300 days it would be cleansed. But Dan. 9 then goes on to reveal when the sanctuary, the Most Holy does get cleansed - after the 70 weeks.

iamlamad · May 20, 2020

Marilyn C said:
But then it wouldn`t fit in with God`s declaration in Dan. 9: 24 regarding `your people, the holy city and the Most holy, (sanctuary).

If it was Antiochus who desecrated the sanctuary, and then after 2,300 days it would be cleansed. But Dan. 9 then goes on to reveal when the sanctuary, the Most Holy does get cleansed - after the 70 weeks.

The 2300 days was how long it took back in 176 BC to cleanse the temple. God has given us NO SPECIFIC TIME it will take to cleanse the new temple that will be desecrated by the man of sin entering and declaring he is God. But then, perhaps God did give us the time, but did not say what is was to represent: a specific event is going to happen on the 1290th day from the abomination. Perhaps that is when the temple gets cleansed. Or, perhaps it is on the 1335th day.

But Dan. 9 then goes on to reveal when the sanctuary, the Most Holy does get cleansed - after the 70 weeks. Could show us that word for word or equivalent so someone like me can get it?

If it takes 70 weeks for the end time temple to get cleansed, then you can drop your 2300 days from our argument - right?

"to anoint the most Holy." What if this is referring to the PERSON of Jesus Christ - rather than a building?

fwGod · May 20, 2020

Marilyn C said:
I believe that the `catching away, ` the rapture precedes the Tribulation. Although I do not see the exact timing of this in God`s word I believe that we will know close to the time & even the month & year. I will set out my thinking in stages so you can respond, if you desire to a particular point.

We are NOT in darkness. I believe we will know closer to the time.
`...you yourselves know perfectly that the Day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night,.....but you, brethren are NOT in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. You are sons of light...` (1 Thess. 5: 1 – 5)

`...exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.` (Heb. 10: 25)

The Day of Atonement – 10th of Tishri.

This is Israel`s most important day of the year. Thus I believe it is when they will start their sacrifices.

....I..............X.............2,300 days.......................................I.....>

.................10th Tishri................................................................>

`“ How long will the vision be, concerning the daily sacrifices & the transgression of desolation, the giving of both the sanctuary & the host to be trampled underfoot?” And he said to me, “For 2300 days; then the sanctuary shall be cleansed.”` (Dan. 8: 13 & 14)

I see that the 2,300 days includes –

the sacrifices starting – 10th Tishri.

the host being trampled – midway through the Tribulation.

the sanctuary cleansed – when the Lord comes to deliver Israel.

3. The Cleansing of the Land – 7 months.

....I....220days..........X.............2,300 days.......................................I.....>

.........................10th Tishri................................................................>

220 days = 7 months & 10 days.

`For seven months the house of Israel will be burying them, in order to cleanse the land.` (Ez. 39: 12)

After the Russian Federation is dealt with by God on the mountains of Israel, then Israel will cleanse the land of bodies etc. This will take seven months. Then, I believe, they will desire to start their sacrifices to God.

`Then they will know that I am the Lord.` (Ez. 38: 23)

4. The months for the beginning & end of the tribulation.

....I......220.......X.............2,300 days.......................................I...........>

....Adar....10th Tishri........................................................Shebat.........>

Now we can place the beginning & end months on the timeline – Adar to Shebat.

Then we need to work out the year. And this is possible because of a very interesting event that happens in Israel`s calendar nearly every three years.

5. The years – of the beginning & end of the tribulation.

....I......220.......X.............2,300 days................................I......30......I.....30....I...15th .........>

....Adar....10th Tishri..............................................Shebat.....Adar 1.....Adar 2...New Year.. >

The 30, 30 & 15, are related to the 1, 290 & 1,335 days of Daniel 12: 11 & 12. (15th is the Feast of Tabernacles.)

After the month of Shebat comes the month of Adar. And every three years or so Israel has a double Adar month to come in line with its feasts & the Solar calendar. Thus there are two months of Adar before the New Year. They are called Adar 1 & Adar 2. The second Adar, (Adar 2) is the recognised month for the time of rejoicing over deliverance from their enemies.

So, we ask ourselves which years, in the future do these double months of Adar occur? According to the Jewish calendar the double Adars are in

2016, 2019, 2022 – all these do not give time for a 7 year tribulation.

2024, 2027, 2030, 2033, (etc) – my choice is 2027 (& I have more details for this, (month & day)but that would require more steps. Thus I will leave that for another thread.)

So if the end of the tribulation is, as I think, 2027 then the beginning would be 2020.

Thus I believe, the `catching away,` the rapture will be either late 2019 or early 2020.

Obviously we haven`t long to wait & see.

What are your thoughts?

Note – Israel`s months.

Nisan (Mar/April) 2. Iyyar (April/May) 3. Sivan (May/June) 4. Tammuz (June/July)

5.Ab (July/August) 6. Elul (Aug/Sept) 7. Tishri (Sept/Oct)

8.Marchesvan (Oct/Nov) 9. Kislev (Nov/Dec) 10. Tebeth (Dec/Jan) 11. Shebat (Jan/Feb)

12. Adar (Feb/March)

My thoughts? .. that your method is based on calculating particular days, months, years, that you have chosen. So it's a prediction. Which will be just as wrong as all other numerous predictions have been.

Jesus said "No one knows the day or hour.." that it shall occur. How is it that you think that you are not included in Jesus' statement?

keras · May 20, 2020

iamlamad said:
The 2300 days was how long it took back in 176 BC to cleanse the temple. God has given us NO SPECIFIC TIME it will take to cleanse the new temple that will be desecrated by the man of sin entering and declaring he is God. But then, perhaps God did give us the time, but did not say what is was to represent: a specific event is going to happen on the 1290th day from the abomination. Perhaps that is when the temple gets cleansed. Or, perhaps it is on the 1335th day.

The 2300 is not days, but 2300 evening and morning sacrifices. Just 1150 days, which is the exact time between 167 BC, when A4E desecrated the Temple and the day it was re-dedicated by Judas Macabees in 164 BC. Past history and proof of Daniels accuracy as a Prophet.
I believe that the 1335 days of Daniel 12:12 does refer to the re-dedication of the new Temple, that being 75 days after the Return of Jesus, which is 1260 days after the Temple is desecrated by the Anti-Christ. 2 Thess 2:4

Marilyn C · May 20, 2020

iamlamad said:
The 2300 days was how long it took back in 176 BC to cleanse the temple. God has given us NO SPECIFIC TIME it will take to cleanse the new temple that will be desecrated by the man of sin entering and declaring he is God. But then, perhaps God did give us the time, but did not say what is was to represent: a specific event is going to happen on the 1290th day from the abomination. Perhaps that is when the temple gets cleansed. Or, perhaps it is on the 1335th day.

But Dan. 9 then goes on to reveal when the sanctuary, the Most Holy does get cleansed - after the 70 weeks. Could show us that word for word or equivalent so someone like me can get it?

If it takes 70 weeks for the end time temple to get cleansed, then you can drop your 2300 days from our argument - right?

"to anoint the most Holy." What if this is referring to the PERSON of Jesus Christ - rather than a building?

I agree that the temple sanctuary will be cleansed at the 1,290 day. The 1,335 day is 30 + 15 days later. The 15th of Adar is the feast pf Purim when Israel celebrates national Deliverance. And that seems to me to be the time of its fulfilment.

The 70 weeks is chastisement, and then it will `finish the transgression,` national rebellion. (For the 70 weeks is all about - Israel (your people) & the holy city. Great markers those as they are yet to be finished.

Also at the end of the 70th week will be `to anoint the Most Holy.` So we see that concerns the sanctuary. It isn`t a person as the context is `your people and for your holy city.` (Obviously with the temple and Holy place in there.)

Marilyn C · May 20, 2020

fwGod said:
My thoughts? .. that your method is based on calculating particular days, months, years, that you have chosen. So it's a prediction. Which will be just as wrong as all other numerous predictions have been.

Jesus said "No one knows the day or hour.." that it shall occur. How is it that you think that you are not included in Jesus' statement?

No one knew when the Lord was speaking, however when Jesus ascended to the Father He was then in the Godhead and they are omniscient - all knowing. The Lord then sends His Holy Spirit to guide His Body into all truth. Thus -

`But you, brethren, are NOT in darkness that this day should overtake you as a thief.` ((1 Thess. 5: 4)
`and exhorting one another, and so much the more as YOU SEE the Day approaching.` (Heb.10: 25)

So obviously we will SEE the Day approaching and exhort, (warn and encourage) each other, and come together (in 2`s & 3`s) more.

I have just used the Lord`s own numbers and His feasts for Israel. He did not put those in His word to fill up space!

I did not say "Thus say the Lord....` (prophecy) but I believe.....and then worked on God`s numbers & feasts. I made a mistake in this try not giving a month for the `mourning.` However I added that and did a new thread. A couple of events will have to be taken into account before the rapture -

1. The Economic hardship. (Rev. 6: 5 & 5)
2. The Russian War preparations.

I believe when we see the Russians gathering at the Golan heights in battle array then we will go. For when that war starts it is the beginning of the Day of the Lord, (time period and not the specific day when the Lord returns.) (Note: Day in Greek means a time period and a specific day. Both are recognisable in scripture.)

iamlamad · May 22, 2020

Marilyn C said:
I agree that the temple sanctuary will be cleansed at the 1,290 day. The 1,335 day is 30 + 15 days later. The 15th of Adar is the feast pf Purim when Israel celebrates national Deliverance. And that seems to me to be the time of its fulfilment.

The 70 weeks is chastisement, and then it will `finish the transgression,` national rebellion. (For the 70 weeks is all about - Israel (your people) & the holy city. Great markers those as they are yet to be finished.

Also at the end of the 70th week will be `to anoint the Most Holy.` So we see that concerns the sanctuary. It isn`t a person as the context is `your people and for your holy city.` (Obviously with the temple and Holy place in there.)

I have not looked (maybe I can today) but my guess is, all the commentaries will disagree with you here. It is the KING that will be anointed.

iamlamad · May 22, 2020

keras said:
The 2300 is not days, but 2300 evening and morning sacrifices. Just 1150 days, which is the exact time between 167 BC, when A4E desecrated the Temple and the day it was re-dedicated by Judas Macabees in 164 BC. Past history and proof of Daniels accuracy as a Prophet.
I believe that the 1335 days of Daniel 12:12 does refer to the re-dedication of the new Temple, that being 75 days after the Return of Jesus, which is 1260 days after the Temple is desecrated by the Anti-Christ. 2 Thess 2:4

Does one day have an evening and a morning? I think so.

keras · May 22, 2020

iamlamad said:
Does one day have an evening and a morning? I think so.

Yes, the 2300 evenings and mornings are past history and all the weird and wonderful attempts to fit it into recent or future time, are wrong and are just examples of the confusion about Gods plans for the end times.

The other time periods that many get confused about are in Ezekiel 4:4-6.
Judah is given 40 years and Israel 390. This has resulted in a lot of opinion and guesswork.
At least some have seen that the clue to its understanding lies in Leviticus 26:18-28, where Israel - the ten Northern tribes, now the Western Christian nations, have their punishment multiplied seven times and Judah are given seven times seven extra.
So Israel- we; must wait 2730 years and Judah, the Jews- 1960 years.
Israel was exiled in about 720 to 715 BC, so our exile from the holy Land is now completed, or very nearly so. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35, Romans 9:24-26
The exile of Judah commenced in 70 AD, with the Roman conquest. Plus 1960 = 2030 AD when they will return to the holy Land in belief as Christians. Zechariah 12:7-14

Marilyn C · May 22, 2020

iamlamad said:
I have not looked (maybe I can today) but my guess is, all the commentaries will disagree with you here. It is the KING that will be anointed.

I agree that Jesus will be anointed of the Father as King, (Ps. 2: 6) however Dan. 9: 24 is referring, (in context) to the people of Israel and their city. The next few verses go on to speak of the temple rebuilt and then it being destroyed and finally some one coming and taking away the sacrifices. This shows that God is concerned as to cleansing the temple & sanctuary.

The Rapture - 2020?

Lamad

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Lamad

Pre-tribulation.

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Lamad

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Pre-tribulation.

Lamad

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Pre-tribulation.

Pre-tribulation.

Lamad

Lamad

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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