Texas Mayor Refuses to Allow Women to Deliver Prayers Before City Council Meeting

Archivist · May 22, 2020

The Mayor of Wylie, Texas, has insisted that only men deliver prayers before City Council meetings.

Wylie mayor defends belief that women shouldn’t lead public prayer

The Mayor is also the pastor of a local church that believes that women should keep silent in church.

I wonder what the Mayor's reaction would have been if the request to lead the prayer had come from someone who is Jewish, Muslim, Hindu or Wiccan? Would he insist that only Christian prayers be offered before government meetings?

RDKirk · May 22, 2020

The first problem is that he endorses prayers (that should be made by a congregation that is in one accord and in the name of Jesus) as a pony show before heathens and pagans.

SkyWriting · May 22, 2020

Archivist said:
The Mayor of Wylie, Texas, has insisted that only men deliver prayers before City Council meetings.

The internet makes the world too small when I care about if towns
in Texas hold city council meetings at all.

Archivist · May 22, 2020

SkyWriting said:
Wylie, Texas
Zip code: 75098
Population: 51,585 (2018)

My high school had 2000 students.

OK, but that shouldn’t matter in terms of what this mayor did. The borough where I grew up has a population of around 9000, but nothing like this ever happened there and I suspect that the mayor would have been out of office in fairly short order if he had tried this. Further, this city is a suburb of Dallas—it isn’t some podunk village in the middle of nowhere.

SkyWriting · May 22, 2020

Archivist said:
OK, but that shouldn’t matter in terms of what this mayor did. The borough where I grew up has a population of around 9000, but nothing like this ever happened there and I suspect that the mayor would have been out of office in fairly short order if he had tried this.

I agree. It doesn't matter what this mayor did in some town in Texas.

Archivist · May 22, 2020

SkyWriting said:
I agree. It doesn't matter what this mayor did in some town in Texas.

A city of over 50000 people isn’t a small town, and those holding public office shouldn’t abuse their authority no matter where they are. Refusing to allow women to lead the prayer before a meeting is an abuse of authority. As I asked earlier, I wonder whether his honor would allow a Muslim or a Wiccan to lead the prayer?

redleghunter · May 22, 2020

Wylie Texas is Northeast Dallas. Kind of surprised the mayor was surprised.

redleghunter · May 22, 2020

Archivist said:
Further, this city is a suburb of Dallas—it isn’t some podunk village in the middle of nowhere.

Well Texas really does not have many suburbs as other states do. They have large rural counties mostly.

Archivist · May 22, 2020

redleghunter said:
Well Texas really does not have many suburbs as other states do. They have large rural counties mostly.

This city is about 25 miles outside of downtown Dallas. It is not an isolated rural community.

You keep making this claim but you have offered nothing to support it. If you have proof that this is a rural hick-town occupied by country bumpkins then offer it. Let’s see some evidence.

redleghunter · May 22, 2020

Archivist said:
This city is about 25 miles outside of downtown Dallas. It is not an isolated rural community.

You keep making this claim but you have offered nothing to support it. If you have proof that this is a rural hick-town occupied by country bumpkins then offer it. Let’s see some evidence.

That’s all you need to hit the larger farming and ranching community. It’s not a suburb like you think it is. Most are not familiar with larger (population wise and land wise) rural counties. Here in Texas that is very common.

Archivist · May 22, 2020

redleghunter said:
That’s all you need to hit the larger farming and ranching community. It’s not a suburb like you think it is. Most are not familiar with larger (population wise and land wise) rural counties. Here in Texas that is very common.

Still waiting for proof. All I'm getting from you are unsupported claims.

RDKirk · May 22, 2020

Wylie is about twenty minutes east of my house, east of highway 75. Immediately east of Wylie is, indeed, open country.

The major suburban growth in this area is mostly west of highway 75. Newcomers are wary of living east of 75, so Wylie hasn't quite had the growth spurt that other areas have had, and it hasn't been as commercially built-up as other areas, such as Frisco, west Plano, Allen, and McKinney. Driving through those areas is just solid suburban commerce and residential areas. Going east to Wylie, that fades a bit...a Kroger here, Best Buy there, Wal-Mart over there...for five or six miles until you get to the city of Wylie.

But it's actually nearer to Dallas, has an easier commute into Dallas than the more popular areas, and housing prices are still a tad lower. Sooner or later, newcomers will figure that out.

Archivist · May 22, 2020

RDKirk said:
Wylie is about twenty minutes east of my house, east of highway 75. Immediately east of Wylie is, indeed, open country.

The major suburban growth in this area is mostly west of highway 75. Newcomers are wary of living east of 75, so Wylie hasn't quite had the growth spurt that other areas have had, and it hasn't been as commercially built-up as other areas, such as Frisco, west Plano, Allen, and McKinney. Driving through those areas is just solid suburban commerce and residential areas. Going east to Wylie, that fades a bit...a Kroger here, Best Buy there, Wal-Mart over there...for five or six miles until you get to the city of Wylie.

But it's actually nearer to Dallas, has an easier commute into Dallas than the more popular areas, and housing prices are still a tad lower. Sooner or later, newcomers will figure that out.

Thank you RDKirk. So it is not some hick town in the middle of nowhere. In other words, the city mayor should know better.

revanneosl · May 22, 2020

Is jackhole one of the words we're not supposed to use around here?

Archivist · May 22, 2020

revanneosl said:
Is jackhole one of the words we're not supposed to use around here?

I haven’t seen anyone use it in this thread. In any event, let’s get the thread back on topic. We have established that this is not some isolated little town. I presume News 4 Texas and other television stations cover it. This mayor should have known better.

TLSITD · May 23, 2020

Archivist said:
The Mayor of Wylie, Texas, has insisted that only men deliver prayers before City Council meetings.

Wylie mayor defends belief that women shouldn’t lead public prayer

The Mayor is also the pastor of a local church that believes that women should keep silent in church.

I wonder what the Mayor's reaction would have been if the request to lead the prayer had come from someone who is Jewish, Muslim, Hindu or Wiccan? Would he insist that only Christian prayers be offered before government meetings?

I'm a Christian woman and I believe that women should keep silent in the church assemblies and that they are forbidden to hold the church offices (which are given to men and not women).

But I also believe that religious activities should be separated from government proceedings and that Christians should not hold government offices. (That's not our business here in this world.)

Under American law (though not in God's opinion), all religions have equal authority and treatment. America isn't a Christian nation, even though some of its constitutional principles are based at least in part on Christian ideas (and those perhaps not exclusive to Christianity). The founders, so far as I know, were deists at best, not Christians. They didn't establish America as a Christian nation with a national religion but as a secular nation with freedom of religion. The "God" referred to in the U.S. constitution is whatever "God" people believe in.

I don't think there should be prayer in government assemblies, unless we want to choose a national religion and change all of our laws to agree with the teachings of that religion. Otherwise, there is strife and confusion.

RDKirk · May 23, 2020

TLSITD said:
Under American law (though not in God's opinion), all religions have equal authority and treatment. America isn't a Christian nation, even though some of its constitutional principles are based at least in part on Christian ideas (and those perhaps not exclusive to Christianity). The founders, so far as I know, were deists at best, not Christians. They didn't establish America as a Christian nation with a national religion but as a secular nation with freedom of religion. The "God" referred to in the U.S. constitution is whatever "God" people believe in.

Most were Christians, but remember that they were not long out of extremely ruinous religious wars in Europe that had all been just between different sects of Christianity. They wanted to avoid bringing that inter-Christian conflict into the New World, at least between colonies (half of which had official colonial religions at the time the First Amendment was ratified).

Archivist · May 23, 2020

TLSITD said:
I'm a Christian woman and I believe that women should keep silent in the church assemblies and that they are forbidden to hold the church offices (which are given to men and not women).

But I also believe that religious activities should be separated from government proceedings and that Christians should not hold government offices. (That's not our business here in this world.)

Under American law (though not in God's opinion), all religions have equal authority and treatment. America isn't a Christian nation, even though some of its constitutional principles are based at least in part on Christian ideas (and those perhaps not exclusive to Christianity). The founders, so far as I know, were deists at best, not Christians. They didn't establish America as a Christian nation with a national religion but as a secular nation with freedom of religion. The "God" referred to in the U.S. constitution is whatever "God" people believe in.

I don't think there should be prayer in government assemblies, unless we want to choose a national religion and change all of our laws to agree with the teachings of that religion. Otherwise, there is strife and confusion.

Strife and confusion, and that is what we are seeing here. This mayor shouldn’t impose his religious beliefs on those attending a public meeting, which is what he is doing. You are correct, the US is a secular nation not a Christian nation.

I would correct one thing. There were many deists among the founders, but there were also dedicated Christians. For example, the Rev. Jonathan Witherspoon was a Presbyterian minister, John Jay was a devoted Anglican and Charles Carroll was a devout Roman Catholic.

iluvatar5150 · May 25, 2020

revanneosl said:
Is jackhole one of the words we're not supposed to use around here?

Let me know, because I’d like to add it to my repertoire but idk if I want to spend the points taking lead on this.

Arcangl86 · May 25, 2020

SkyWriting said:
I agree. It doesn't matter what this mayor did in some town in Texas.

Constitutional violations don't matter if they happen in a city in Texas?

Texas Mayor Refuses to Allow Women to Deliver Prayers Before City Council Meeting

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