He has no inheritance, because in Adam all die (1 Corinthians 15:22). He is superseded by Christ, the second/last Adam (1 Corinthians 15:45), who is the Heir of all things (Hebrews 1:1,2).
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20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine
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He has no inheritance, because in Adam all die (1 Corinthians 15:22). He is superseded by Christ, the second/last Adam (1 Corinthians 15:45), who is the Heir of all things (Hebrews 1:1,2).
You misunderstood. Each of the Scriptures that I cited refers to an inheritance. Since you believe that there are three possible inheritances, then the inheritance in each Scripture that I cited must be associated with one of your three choices.
So, for example, which one of your three choices is the inheritance in Ephesians 1:11 associated with?
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The rules of this forum state that we are to address the scripture, instead of making attacks upon individuals.
If a person has to attack an individual, it shows the desperation of their man-made doctrines.
We know the New Heavens and the New Earth come at the Second Coming of Christ, based on Christ returning "in flaming fire" in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, and Peter looking for the New Heavens and the New Earth in 2 Peter 3:10-13.
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Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
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Yesha
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Edit: I think I somehow misread your post and responded to the wrong question. I will leave my original post below anyway. My apologies for the confusion!
To address your question properly, I did not think of it in that way. I know that we are crucified with Christ (Galatians 2:20) and that we are raised to life with him by faith (Colossians 2:12). However, I did not make this connection in the context of Revelation 20. I would love to hear a little more from you on this, if you do not mind.
Original post: Yes! In fact another passage in the Johannine corpus, John 5:19-29, came to mind. Here is my brief exegesis. I welcome your input since I am still learning!
21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will. 22 For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. 24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. - John 5:21-24 (ESV)
Jesus declares his unity with the Father by raising the dead and giving life just as the Father does. This life is granted through faith and is everlasting. Thus Christ's words in this context carry soteriological and eschatological overtones. John proceeds.
25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment. - John 5:25-29 (ESV)
John uses the phrase "an hour is coming" twice: (1) in verse 25 and (2) in verse 28. In the first instance, John modifies the phrase by appending "and is now here". What happens during this hour? We read that the dead hear the voice of the Son and live. But this refers not to a contemporaneous physical resurrection en masse; rather it is stated in the context of verse 24 in which hearing and believing the word of Christ secures eternal life. This could indicate the "first resurrection" spoken of by John in Revelation 20:5. In the second instance, John does not synchronize "an hour is coming" with the present. We are not told when this hour will arrive, only that it is coming. During this hour the dead, both righteous and unrighteous, will be raised to their final, eternal state (v29). This seems to refer to the "second resurrection" implied in Revelation 20:5.
As I was putting together my post on Revelation 20, I thought through the above. However, I chose to stick with the immediate context provided in Revelation, which lead me to see the first resurrection as most likely indicative of the intermediate state. But I certainly see the language of resurrection by regeneration in John 5:25 as a possible alternative, or perhaps, we could see both in play. In other words, the saints coming to life includes both their regeneration in time and the intermediate state upon physical death prior to the return of Christ.
I would appreciate your thoughts on this, especially if you have any resources I can look into. Thanks for bringing this point up brother!
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Yesha
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Of course! I likewise appreciate the time and effort you have put into responding to me. I know we reach different conclusions, but I am always edified in conversation with other believers.
The reason I think that John is observing events happening in heaven is because he mentions “thrones” in verse 4. Most mentions of throne in Revelation seem to refer to a throne or thrones in heaven. While it would be too laborious to quote each instance, I think Revelation 4 is helpful.
4 After this I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven! And the first voice, which I had heard speaking to me like a trumpet, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.” 2 At once I was in the Spirit, and behold, a throne stood in heaven, with one seated on the throne. 3 And he who sat there had the appearance of jasper and carnelian, and around the throne was a rainbow that had the appearance of an emerald. 4 Around the throne were twenty-four thrones, and seated on the thrones were twenty-four elders, clothed in white garments, with golden crowns on their heads. 5 From the throne came flashes of lightning, and rumblings and peals of thunder, and before the throne were burning seven torches of fire, which are the seven spirits of God, 6 and before the throne there was as it were a sea of glass, like crystal. And around the throne, on each side of the throne, are four living creatures, full of eyes in front and behind: 7 the first living creature like a lion, the second living creature like an ox, the third living creature with the face of a man, and the fourth living creature like an eagle in flight. 8 And the four living creatures, each of them with six wings, are full of eyes all around and within, and day and night they never cease to say, “Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come!” 9 And whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to him who is seated on the throne, who lives forever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders fall down before him who is seated on the throne and worship him who lives forever and ever. They cast their crowns before the throne, saying, 11 “Worthy are you, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they existed and were created.” - Revelation 4:1-11 (ESV)
In my mind, I would assume a heavenly setting unless contextual evidence suggests otherwise. Here are the several times when John sees thrones in a different setting.
Demonic thrones:
13 “ ‘I know where you dwell, where Satan’s throne is. Yet you hold fast my name, and you did not deny my faith even in the days of Antipas my faithful witness, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells. - Revelation 2:13 (ESV)
2 And the beast that I saw was like a leopard; its feet were like a bear’s, and its mouth was like a lion’s mouth. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority. - Revelation 13:2 (ESV)
10 The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness. People gnawed their tongues in anguish 11 and cursed the God of heaven for their pain and sores. They did not repent of their deeds. - Revelation 16:10-11 (ESV)
2 And the beast that I saw was like a leopard; its feet were like a bear’s, and its mouth was like a lion’s mouth. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority. - Revelation 13:2 (ESV)
10 The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness. People gnawed their tongues in anguish 11 and cursed the God of heaven for their pain and sores. They did not repent of their deeds. - Revelation 16:10-11 (ESV)
Thrones in the New Heaven and New Earth:
1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” 5 And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new. - Revelation 21:1-5 (ESV)
1 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him. 4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. 5 And night will be no more. They will need no light of lamp or sun, for the Lord God will be their light, and they will reign forever and ever. - Revelation 22:1-5 (ESV)
1 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him. 4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. 5 And night will be no more. They will need no light of lamp or sun, for the Lord God will be their light, and they will reign forever and ever. - Revelation 22:1-5 (ESV)
Would you be willing to expound on this a little more so that I can better appreciate your view? Are you saying that the resurrection of Revelation 20:4 is physical, pertaining to the martyred saints only, and that those who died but not as martyrs remain dead until the end of the millennium?
Would you be able to unpack this more for me? Walk me through your understanding of 1 Corinthians 15. To restate my view, 1 Corinthians 15 is about the bodily resurrection of Christ and the future bodily resurrection of the saints. Verse 23 indicates that the latter will happen at the return of Christ, while verse 54 indicates that it will occur simultaneous with the defeat of death. I do not see any contextual evidence in 1 Corinthians 15 referring to the Great White Throne. It seems to be a reassuring passage to the church in Corinth who did fully not understand all that Christ’s resurrection secured for them.
I agree with you that Satan is able to persecute and kill the saints. I do not think this is incompatible with his binding because Satan is not bound such that he has no power at all, but so that he cannot destroy the church and her influence completely.
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Edit: I think I somehow misread your post and responded to the wrong question. I will leave my original post below anyway. My apologies for the confusion!
To address your question properly, I did not think of it in that way. I know that we are crucified with Christ (Galatians 2:20) and that we are raised to life with him by faith (Colossians 2:12). However, I did not make this connection in the context of Revelation 20. I would love to hear a little more from you on this, if you do not mind.
Original post: Yes! In fact another passage in the Johannine corpus, John 5:19-29, came to mind. Here is my brief exegesis. I welcome your input since I am still learning!
21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will. 22 For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. 24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. - John 5:21-24 (ESV)
Jesus declares his unity with the Father by raising the dead and giving life just as the Father does. This life is granted through faith and is everlasting. Thus Christ's words in this context carry soteriological and eschatological overtones. John proceeds.
25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment. - John 5:25-29 (ESV)
John uses the phrase "an hour is coming" twice: (1) in verse 25 and (2) in verse 28. In the first instance, John modifies the phrase by appending "and is now here". What happens during this hour? We read that the dead hear the voice of the Son and live. But this refers not to a contemporaneous physical resurrection en masse; rather it is stated in the context of verse 24 in which hearing and believing the word of Christ secures eternal life. This could indicate the "first resurrection" spoken of by John in Revelation 20:5. In the second instance, John does not synchronize "an hour is coming" with the present. We are not told when this hour will arrive, only that it is coming. During this hour the dead, both righteous and unrighteous, will be raised to their final, eternal state (v29). This seems to refer to the "second resurrection" implied in Revelation 20:5.
As I was putting together my post on Revelation 20, I thought through the above. However, I chose to stick with the immediate context provided in Revelation, which lead me to see the first resurrection as most likely indicative of the intermediate state. But I certainly see the language of resurrection by regeneration in John 5:25 as a possible alternative, or perhaps, we could see both in play. In other words, the saints coming to life includes both their regeneration in time and the intermediate state upon physical death prior to the return of Christ.
I would appreciate your thoughts on this, especially if you have any resources I can look into. Thanks for bringing this point up brother!
I have been on the road for 6 days and have not had access to my computer. I will address this when I get home. If I overlook please remind me.
I have been using a cell phone to respond to people, and voice dictation, which is not the best, especially when you have an Irish accent. Lol
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Exactly. There are only two types of people since the beginning - natural and spiritual.
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Please don’t twist what I am saying. It does not enhance your position.
All stand before God’s heavenly throne to account for their lives. For the believer, their eternity is secure. But they will not know their reward until standing before the Lord. But nowhere is there 2 thrones. That is a Premil invention unsupported by Scripture.
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keras
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What we should know is that 2 Thessalonians 1-6-10, is about the Day of the Lords vengeance and fiery wrath, as described in over 100 other prophesies. It is the Sixth Seal event, years before Jesus Returns.
Proved by how the Lord is only reveled to His own after that Day.
Also by Revelation 21:1, the NH, NE comes AFTER the Millennium.
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OK. I see what you mean.
Eph. 1: 18 ` riches of His glory of His inheritance in the saints.` We are the Lord`s inheritance.
We are the Lord`s inheritance.
Eph. 1: 11 `in whom we (B/C) obtained an inheritance ...`The B/C `s inheritance is IN Christ.
Eph. 1: 14 `the Holy Spirit...who is the guarantee of our inheritance.` Sealed by Holy Spirit.
Eph. 5: 5 No sinful person `has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God (Father).` All sinners (unrepentant) will be excluded from God`s great kingdom.
Col. 1: 12 `The Father who qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light.` US, the B/C have an inheritance by the Father.
Heb. 9: 15 `those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.` An eternal inheritance for those responding to the call.
1 Peter 1: 4 `an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled ....reserved in heaven.` A heavenly inheritance, incorruptible and undefiled.
All the above are written to the Body of Christ about their inheritance. They describe different aspects of the inheritance, incorruptible, undefiled, reserved in heaven, given of the Father, in Christ, & sealed of the Holy Spirit.
To know WHERE our inheritance is we need to look at more scriptures.
Heb. 11: 8 `Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would afterwards receive as an inheritance.` Earthly place, inheritance. (Israel)
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keras
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I repeat; John was in heaven, he did see Thrones, but his visions were of earthly scenes and events.
A plain reading of Revelation 20:4-6, shows that it is only those martyrs killed during the 42 month reign of the 'beast', Revelation 13:5-9, who are brought back to life. That is: they are not made immortal yet.
ALL the rest of the dead, which includes Daniel 12:13, David; Acts 13:36 and Lazarus; John 11:24, remain in their graves until the end of the Millennium and if those martyrs do die again, as their names are Written in the Book of Life, they will automatically receive immortality at the Great White Throne Judgment, after the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15
1 Cor 15 takes some careful study, but here Paul is exhorting and prophesying.
In verse 24-28, he describes the end, after the Millennium. He also describes that time in verses 50-56. Proved by how it is only then that Death will be no more. Revelation 21:4
The teaching that anyone receives a 'glorified body', or is made immortal, before that time is false and will not happen. This truth destroys the 'rapture to heaven' theory, a Satanic deception that has fooled millions. Humans never go to live in heaven, Jesus said so; John 3:13 and eventually God and heaven come to us. Revelation 21:3
Satan is not 'bound' now. He is able to do whatever he wants with people who fail to put on the armor of God. Ephesians 6:11, 1 Peter 5:8-9
Obviously too, Satan can actually make people believe they are doing the work of God to murder the saints. But He will be bound after Jesus Returns, Revelation 20:1-3
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Yes better things, for Abel and the others in Heb. 11 looked for a city, however we, the Body of Christ have a great dominion than that in the highest heaven. (Heb. 11: 40)
Now the Heavenly Jerusalem is of two parts - the upper and the lower.
The upper is Mount Zion where the Body of Christ will rule. (Heb. 12: 22 & 23) while the lower part is the city which comes down from God. (Rev. 21: 2)
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keras
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Very good and correct. The holy Land is our inheritance, we will live there in peace and prosperity. WE will say: Blessed is He that comes in the Name of the Lord.
Remember: WE are Abrahams children. Galatians 3:26-29
But your post #216 shows you still have some funny ideas!
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SeventyOne
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The millennial sacrifices are mentioned in Zechariah 14 are in relation to the celebration of the Feast of Tabernacles, not the Feast of Atonement. Atonement was the time for the offering of sin, not Tabernacles. So, when you all so around claiming the future sacrifices somehow deny the finished work of Christ, it just shows a lack of study on your part.
Let me give you a picture of what's going on. This will be a heavily attended feast time, literally. People will bring their own animal, give thanks to God. Then it will be killed, butchered, cooked, and then eaten in celebration. It wouldn't be much different than attending a cookout today, bringing your own steaks to cook on the grill, but instead of bringing meat from an animal already killed and butchered, it's done there on the spot.
It's a great big annual God-thanking, BYOA (bring your own animal) BBQ party.
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I wasn`t twisting, it`s just that you have not thought through the consequences of what you said. We, the Body of Christ will NOT be at the Great White Throne judgment for those people will be judged (life or death) by THEIR WORKS!!!!! (Rev. 20: 13)
We have been saved by the precious blood of Jesus and our works can never save us.
People who have never heard of Jesus will be judged according to there works as it shows whether they have lived rightly according to their God given conscience.
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Well those comments are scriptural and it is up to you to show differently. It is very easy to say `you have funny ideas` but not doing any work to show why.
We are OF Abraham`s seed, and that is CHRIST.
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