Difference between hearts of stone and flesh

Hammster said:

Then why would God take away a heart of stone?

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Endurance rewarded?

icxn said:

The list of things that come out of the heart and defile it, are the same things that Saint Paul says cause one not to inherit the Kingdom of God (not to be saved). And if one is not saved (in the end), he must have hardened his heart (Hebrews 3:12-15).

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I don’t see how that applies to the deceit of sin hardening the heart, unless it means endurance in spite of.

Hammster said:

Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
— Ezekiel 36:25-26

Why is this necessary? What can the heart of flesh do that the heart of stone cannot?

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With the law written in our hearts, as God promised before Christ and is now fulfilled -- with hearts that can love, are not stone, we can do this:

Leviticus 19:34 You must treat the foreigner living among you as native-born and love him as yourself, for you were foreigners in the land of Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

Actually love immigrants from south of our border (or from any country).

Matthew 25:35 For I was hungry and you gave Me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in,

Good Day, Hammster

Man's heart of stone is :

The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?

So that man in every thing he intends and all that proceed from him, either in thought, word or deed is evil because of their origination.

It needs to be replaced b y God to overcome the reality of this woeful condition.

In Him

Bill

Hammster said:

Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
— Ezekiel 36:25-26

Why is this necessary? What can the heart of flesh do that the heart of stone cannot?

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If we continue to read, it says:

Then shall you remember your evil ways, and your doings that were not good; and you shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.
Ezekiel 36:31

So, it seems to mean that people understand and feel that they have done wrongly. Before they didn’t care and after they will care.

So it’s all in the remembrance? I remember something about that but have forgotten just now. It may come to me later ...

Hammster said:

Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
— Ezekiel 36:25-26

Why is this necessary? What can the heart of flesh do that the heart of stone cannot?

Click to expand...

Ezekiel is written in very poetic figurative language, prophesizing of things that can happen for Israel, but when did this really happen or why did they not happen?

The reason they did not all happen is Jer. 18: 7 If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, 8 and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. 9 And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, 10 and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it.

Can we blame God for not giving good things to people what He would like to give them these good things?

The good is contingent on the nation or the individual.

Ezekiel like all the prophets gave the people an excellent reason to repent, both woes if they do not and gifts if they do. Those excellent reasons should work for even the selfish hardened hearts of the people, for they can for selfish reasons repent of their ways. Once, they are showered with these gifts including a heart of flesh, they can out of a Loving gratitude worship God.

icxn said:

Maybe. I maintain that the condition of our heart changes based on the things we think, say and do (Matthew 15:19-20) and that reflects/affects our 'saved' status.

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However, Ezekiel 36:25-26 makes it clear God is the Actor of the changed heart. Not us.

1213 said:

If we continue to read, it says:

Then shall you remember your evil ways, and your doings that were not good; and you shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.
Ezekiel 36:31

So, it seems to mean that people understand and feel that they have done wrongly. Before they didn’t care and after they will care.

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Good point. A lot of Ephesians chapter 2 can be seen in this Ezekiel 36 22-33 passage. Notice the bolded.

Ezekiel 36: NASB


22Therefore tell the house of Israel that this is what the Lord GOD says: It is not for your sake that I will act, O house of Israel, but for My holy name, which you profaned among the nations to which you went. 23I will show the holiness of My great name, which has been profaned among the nations—the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the LORD, declares the Lord GOD, when I show My holiness in you before their eyes.24For I will take you from among the nations and gather you out of all the countries, and I will bring you back into your own land. 25I will also sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. I will cleanse you from all your impurities and all your idols.

26I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes and to carefully observe My ordinances.28Then you will live in the land that I gave your forefathers; you will be My people, and I will be your God. 29I will save you from all your uncleanness. I will summon the grain and make it plentiful, and I will not bring famine upon you.

30I will also make the fruit of the trees and the crops of the field plentiful, so that you will no longer bear reproach among the nations on account of famine.31Then you will remember your evil ways and wicked deeds, and you will loathe yourselves for your iniquities and abominations. 32It is not for your sake that I will act, declares the Lord GOD—let it be known to you. Be ashamed and disgraced for your ways, O house of Israel!33This is what the Lord GOD says: On the day I cleanse you from all your iniquities, I will cause the cities to be resettled and the ruins to be rebuilt.

bling said:

Ezekiel is written in very poetic figurative language, prophesizing of things that can happen for Israel, but when did this really happen or why did they not happen?

The reason they did not all happen is Jer. 18: 7 If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, 8 and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. 9 And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, 10 and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it.

Can we blame God for not giving good things to people what He would like to give them these good things?

The good is contingent on the nation or the individual.

Ezekiel like all the prophets gave the people an excellent reason to repent, both woes if they do not and gifts if they do. Those excellent reasons should work for even the selfish hardened hearts of the people, for they can for selfish reasons repent of their ways. Once, they are showered with these gifts including a heart of flesh, they can out of a Loving gratitude worship God.

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Not even close. If you read that passage you will see God say “I will” multiple times which mean it will be done.

Ezekiel 36: NASB


22Therefore tell the house of Israel that this is what the Lord GOD says: It is not for your sake that I will act, O house of Israel, but for My holy name, which you profaned among the nations to which you went. 23I will show the holiness of My great name, which has been profaned among the nations—the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the LORD, declares the Lord GOD, when I show My holiness in you before their eyes.24For I will take you from among the nations and gather you out of all the countries, and I will bring you back into your own land. 25I will also sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. I willcleanse you from all your impurities and all your idols.

26I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I willremove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes and to carefully observe My ordinances.28Then you will live in the land that I gave your forefathers; you will be My people, and I will be your God. 29I will save you from all your uncleanness. I will summon the grain and make it plentiful, and I will not bring famine upon you.

30I will also make the fruit of the trees and the crops of the field plentiful, so that you will no longer bear reproach among the nations on account of famine.31Then you will remember your evil ways and wicked deeds, and you will loathe yourselves for your iniquities and abominations. 32It is not for your sake that I will act, declares the Lord GOD—let it be known to you. Be ashamed and disgraced for your ways, O house of Israel!33This is what the Lord GOD says: On the day I cleanse you from all your iniquities, I will cause the cities to be resettled and the ruins to be rebuilt.

redleghunter said:

Not even close. If you read that passage you will see God say “I will” multiple times which mean it will be done.

Ezekiel 36: NASB


22Therefore tell the house of Israel that this is what the Lord GOD says: It is not for your sake that I will act, O house of Israel, but for My holy name, which you profaned among the nations to which you went. 23I will show the holiness of My great name, which has been profaned among the nations—the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the LORD, declares the Lord GOD, when I show My holiness in you before their eyes.24For I will take you from among the nations and gather you out of all the countries, and I will bring you back into your own land. 25I will also sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. I willcleanse you from all your impurities and all your idols.

26I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I willremove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes and to carefully observe My ordinances.28Then you will live in the land that I gave your forefathers; you will be My people, and I will be your God. 29I will save you from all your uncleanness. I will summon the grain and make it plentiful, and I will not bring famine upon you.

30I will also make the fruit of the trees and the crops of the field plentiful, so that you will no longer bear reproach among the nations on account of famine.31Then you will remember your evil ways and wicked deeds, and you will loathe yourselves for your iniquities and abominations. 32It is not for your sake that I will act, declares the Lord GOD—let it be known to you. Be ashamed and disgraced for your ways, O house of Israel!33This is what the Lord GOD says: On the day I cleanse you from all your iniquities, I will cause the cities to be resettled and the ruins to be rebuilt.

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Jeramiah presents a truism that explains why God's promises do not happen: Jer. 18: 7 If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, 8 and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. 9 And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, 10 and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it.

Hammster said:

Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
— Ezekiel 36:25-26

Why is this necessary? What can the heart of flesh do that the heart of stone cannot?

Click to expand...

I recall God's frustration at people having "hardened hearts" and "stiffened necks" in the old testament. So having that heart of flesh is very important for repentance that the new testament talks about. If you're not born again, you just can't do it.

Hammster said:

Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
— Ezekiel 36:25-26

Why is this necessary? What can the heart of flesh do that the heart of stone cannot?

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It can embrace goodness, light, faith, hope, love; it can embrace God.

God calls and draws us to this union, this union that defines man's justice or righteousness. Little by little, patiently, without ever completely overriding our wills, just as He wouldn't override them in Eden, or between then and now. He wants our participation; He covets it, and once we says yes, He seeks to draw us closer to Himself yet, as we work out our salvation together with He who works in us -and make our calling and election sure. Surer and surer as we continue to cooperate and participate and align our wills with His perfect will. And we can always say no, at first or at anytime later on down the road.

bling said:

Jeramiah presents a truism that explains why God's promises do not happen: Jer. 18: 7 If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, 8 and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. 9 And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, 10 and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it.

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Perhaps address the OP first before changing the subject.

It’s necessary because the default nature of humans is inclined towards sin. Original Sin influences the heart of man and they need to be redeemed from it.