Which baptism is the "one baptism" of Christianity?

DerSchweik · May 21, 2020

Brethren, to be clear, my purpose in citing early Christian leaders is not to cite them as absolute authorities but to show, generally, what understanding they had of basic Christian doctrine - being as close to the actual events as anyone, save those apostles and others whom God inspired to write the NT.

That said, even that early in Christianity, they were already dealing with heresies - as Paul himself warned in Acts 20:28ff.

120-205 AD IRENAEUS "This class of men have been instigated by Satan to a denial of that baptism which is regeneration to God, and thus to a renunciation of the whole faith." (Against Heresies, bk. 1, chap. 21, sec. 1, Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 1, pg. 345.)

140-230 AD TERTULLIAN "Happy is our sacrament of water, in that, by washing away the sins of our early blindness, we are set free and admitted into eternal life! A treatise on this matter will not be superfluous; instructing not only such as are just becoming formed in the faith... The consequence is, that a viper of the Cainite heresy, lately conversant in this quarter, has carried away a great number with her most venomous doctrine, making it her first aim to destroy baptism. Which is quite in accordance with nature; for vipers and asps and serpents themselves generally do affect arid and waterless places." (On Baptism, Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 3, pg. 669.)

If such heresies and arguments against Christian baptism were being promoted that early in church history - is it any wonder that today, 2,000 years later, we're not dealing with similar, perhaps even more subtle heresies ourselves? And would it be strange to submit that after 2,000 years there are not certain heresies so evolved, so oft repeated as to be actually inculcated into contemporary church doctrines and traditions?

Please, please, PLEASE read your bibles! Be "noble-minded" like the Bereans and search the Scriptures daily, on your own, to see if "these things are true" or not. (Acts 17:11) - because I guarantee that some of us here - holding such incontrovertibly opposing views on THE MOST BASIC, FUNDAMENTAL doctrine in Christianity - are wrong.

And satan loves that.

swordsman1 · May 21, 2020

ViaCrucis said:
What the rest of the Scriptures say on the subject are that we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit and forgiveness of sins through baptism (Acts 2:38)

Actually that is not true. Acts 2:38 does not say that we receive either forgiveness or the Holy Spirit through baptism.

Firstly Acts 2:38 is not a formula for salvation. The question Peter is answering is "What should we do?". And he is right, being baptized is something all believers should do. The answer to the more specific question "What must I do to be saved?" is given in Acts 16:31, and there is no mention of baptism there. It is faith alone.

But does Acts 2:38 teach that water baptism is necessary for the forgiveness of sins? No, "for the forgiveness of your sins" is not linked to "be baptized" as first appears, but rather to "Repent". In Greek, the "rule of concord" stipulates that a pronoun (in this case "your") must agree with its antecedent in gender, number and person. So, (and you can look this up on an interlinear) -

'Repent' (Μετανοήσατε) -- second person plural
'be baptized' (βαπτισθήτω) -- third person singular
”for the forgiveness of your (ὑμῶν) sins' -- second-person plural again.

Of course the English speaking layman would not be expected to know this. So we must also use one of the golden rules of hermeneutics, 'interpret scripture in the light of other scripture' ie use clearer passages to help interpret the less clear. In the very next chapter Peter clarifies and tells us plainly that forgiveness of sins is the result of repentance (not baptism).

Acts 3:19 "Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away"

As well as

Luke 24:47 "and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations"

Does Acts 2:38 teach that the Holy Spirit is received at baptism? Again No, "you will receive [second person plural] the gift of the Holy Spirit" is linked to the command to "Repent" [second person plural], not "be baptized" [third person singular]. It is repentance that confers the Holy Spirit, not baptism. Again this is backed up by the rest of scripture. Repentance and faith are two sides of the same coin - we turn away from sin in repentance at the same time as turning to God in faith. And other scriptures tell us quite clearly that it is faith, not baptism, that results in the reception of the Holy Spirit.

Gal 3:2 "Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

Ephesians 1:13 " In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit"

Acts 19:2 "He [Paul] said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”

Gal 3:14 "so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith."

Acts 10:44 " While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word."

Acts 11:17 "If then God gave the same gift to them as he gave to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ..."

John 7:38-39 "Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’" Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive,

TLSITD · May 21, 2020

Fullness of the Gentiles said:
I feel that water baptism, if the person being baptized understands that it represents him/her dying with Christ, going down into hades, and being raised with Christ, is important and beneficial for the person who receives it. To me it's like your first public confession of your faith, which like a marriage ceremony (Romans 7:4), takes place in front of witnesses. This is also why I prefer full-immersion in water.

Romans 6:3-10
"Do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father; even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been joined together in the likeness of His death, we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection;

knowing this, that our old man is crucified with Him in order that the body of sin might be destroyed, that from now on we should not serve sin. For he who died has been justified from sin. But if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that when Christ was raised from the dead, He dies no more; death no longer has dominion over Him. For in that He died, He died to sin once; but in that He lives, He lives to God."

Romans 7:4
"So, my brothers, you also have become dead to the law by the body of Christ so that you should be married to Another, even to Him raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit to God."

Baptism and Communion are to me the only two outward rituals which are important as a symbol of an inward change wrought by God through Christ, the rest of the outward signs lie in works which show the fruit of Christ, the vine - and Baptism, unlike Communion, is a once-off thing. Communion shows that abiding in Christ, the vine, is a continual process till we die.

I understand the symbolic significance and I don't have any objection to voluntary water baptism for that reason. I don't think God is offended by it. Teaching it as a part of Christian doctrine or as a prerequisite for salvation is another thing. I disagree with that.

"Communion" on the other hand, which is actually supposed to be a part of a meal that the brothers partake of, just as the original supper was (not a ritual of sipping a thimble of juice or wine and eating a bit of mazto) is a part of Christian doctrine and a command of the Lord. It should be partaken of by the brothers in that fashion when they gather together as a body on the Lord's day, when possible. It's not a requirement for salvation either, but it is a command of the Lord and should be kept when possible, as a commemoration of Christ's death for us and a reminder that we have died to sin in order to live unto God. Deliberate disobedience to any of God's commands is a serious offense, so just because "Communion" isn't a requirement for salvation, doesn't mean it shouldn't be observed.

The confusion about baptism among Christians comes from confusion about the role and significance of water baptism and from interpreting every reference to baptism as a reference to water baptism. The "one baptism" of Christianity is the spiritual one, and in this baptism all believers partake, whether they are water baptized or not.

See 1 Corinthians 12:13

Zao is life · May 21, 2020

TLSITD said:
I understand the symbolic significance and I don't have any objection to voluntary water baptism for that reason. I don't think God is offended by it. Teaching it as a part of Christian doctrine or as a prerequisite for salvation is another thing. I disagree with that.

"Communion" on the other hand, which is actually supposed to be a part of a meal that the brothers partake of, just as the original supper was (not a ritual of sipping a thimble of juice or wine and eating a bit of mazto) is a part of Christian doctrine and a command of the Lord. It should be partaken of by the brothers in that fashion when they gather together as a body on the Lord's day, when possible. It's not a requirement for salvation either, but it is a command of the Lord and should be kept when possible, as a commemoration of Christ's death for us and a reminder that we have died to sin in order to live unto God. Deliberate disobedience to any of God's commands is a serious offense, so just because "Communion" isn't a requirement for salvation, doesn't mean it shouldn't be observed.

The confusion about baptism among Christians comes from confusion about the role and significance of water baptism and from interpreting every reference to baptism as a reference to water baptism. The "one baptism" of Christianity is the spiritual one, and in this baptism all believers partake, whether they are water baptized or not.

See 1 Corinthians 12:13

I agree that Baptism is not a requirement for salvation. People are not saved by it - but I think it's comparable to the marriage ceremony - because it's a once-off thing. I can't see why anyone should have a problem with showing he or she is now joined to Christ through the ceremony of Baptism. I would be disheartened to think that some churches have abolished the practice because they deem it unnecessary.

SkyWriting · May 21, 2020

DerSchweik said:
This has already been shown to be a logical fallacy - the positing of hypothetical exceptions (like "what if a person gets hit by a bus on their way to the baptistry?") to rationalize current beliefs.

Or one can use scripture to rationalize a well-researched conclusion. That works as well. And is more logical than hypothetical strawmen. It is possible that water is not available. Some lands are parched.

Matthew 21:22
And whatever you ask in prayer, you will receive, if you have faith.”
(Plus, thy sins must be washed away with water.)

Romans 10:17
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
(Plus, thy sins must be washed away with water.)

Hebrews 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.
(Plus, thy sins must be washed away with water.)

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.
(Plus, thy sins must be washed away with water.)

Mark 11:22-24
And Jesus answered them, “Have faith in God. Truly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and thrown into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says will come to pass, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.
(Plus, thy sins must be washed away with water.)

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith.
(Plus, thy sins must be washed away with water.)

Luke 1:37 For nothing will be impossible with God.”
(Plus, thy sins must be washed away with water.)

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
(Plus, thy sins must be washed away with water.)

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.(Plus, thy sins must be washed away with water.)

James 2:24
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
(Plus, thy sins must be washed away with water.)

Matthew 21:21-22
And Jesus answered them, “Truly, I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what has been done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and thrown into the sea,’ it will happen. And whatever you ask in prayer, you will receive, if you have faith.”
(Plus...water.)

Mark 9:23
And Jesus said to him, “‘If you can’! All things are possible for one who believes.”
(Plus...water.)

Matthew 17:20
He said to them, “Because of your little faith. For truly, I say to you, if you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you.”
(Plus...water.)

1 John 5:4
For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
(Plus...water.)

1 Corinthians 13:13
So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
(Plus...water.)

Romans 10:9
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
(Plus...water.)

Romans 1:17
For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”(Plus...water.)

James 1:6
But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind.(Plus...water.)

James 1:3
For you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness.(Plus...water.)

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.(Plus...water.)

Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding.(Plus...water.)

Acts 16:31
And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”(Plus...water.)

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.(Plus...water.)

Romans 10:9-10
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.(Plus...water.)

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.(Plus...water.)

SkyWriting · May 21, 2020

DerSchweik said:
This has already been shown to be a logical fallacy - the positing of hypothetical exceptions (like "what if a person gets hit by a bus on their way to the baptistry?") to rationalize current beliefs.

Not one passage to rationalize your current beliefs?

Albion · May 21, 2020

"Communion" on the other hand, which is actually supposed to be a part of a meal that the brothers partake of, just as the original supper was (not a ritual of sipping a thimble of juice or wine and eating a bit of matzo)….

About the Lord's Supper/Holy Communion, people who believe it be a sacrament, and not just symbolism, don't seem to feel the need to ridicule the elements (bread and wine) when rejecting the "symbolism only" POV.

Both groups consume bread and wine, don't they, regardless of how they define the service?

TLSITD · May 21, 2020

Fullness of the Gentiles said:
I agree that Baptism is not a requirement for salvation. People are not saved by it - but I think it's comparable to the marriage ceremony - because it's a once-off thing. I can't see why anyone should have a problem with showing he or she is now joined to Christ through the ceremony of Baptism. I would be disheartened to think that some churches have abolished the practice because they deem it unnecessary.

It's a personal choice. Not all Christians feel the need to make a declaration of their faith in that way. Not all Christians belong to a church.

I got water baptized into the SDA "church" as an unbeliever. Shortly thereafter, Jesus saved me and I quit that cult. I've always been very zealous and open about my faith, and I've never felt any need or desire to be water baptized.

SkyWriting · May 21, 2020

DerSchweik said:
Where does Scripture say that Christian baptism is "symbolic?"

1 Peter 3
21And this water symbolizes the baptism that now saves you— not the removal of dirt from the body, but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Matthew 3:11
“I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.

Acts 1:5
For John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

Marumorose · May 21, 2020

TLSITD said:
Ephesians 4:4-6 reads

There is one body and one Spirit---just as you were called to one hope when you were called---one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

And in Luke 3:16 John the baptizer says,
"I baptize you with water. But one more powerful than I will come, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire."

I think most non-Catholics would agree that water baptism doesn't save a person and that it is the baptism of the Holy Spirit that saves one, which spiritual baptism every believer receives when he or she is born again (having been buried with Him in baptism and raised with Him through your faith in the power of God, who raised Him from the dead. Colossians 2:12) .

What then is the purpose of water baptism? For Jews it was a symbolic ritual representing a desire for a good conscience toward God and repentance from sins. Jesus' disciples and the early Christians practiced the same ritual. Yet we have no instructions in the NT for how to water baptize or any command to perform or partake in the ritual.

Some believe that Christ sent the apostles to baptize people with water as a part of their evangelistic commission. But if there is only one baptism that saves, why would He? The two are obviously not one and the same.

The apostle Paul water baptized a few people, but he said that Christ did not send him to baptize but rather to preach the gospel (1 Corinthians 1:13-17), through which those who hear and believe are baptized by the Spirit.

Why would the man who was arguably the greatest apostle not have been sent by Christ to water baptize if water baptism was an important or necessary part of Christianity, and if Jesus had indeed sent His other apostles to water baptize?

I am one Christian who believes that water baptism is an obsolete Jewish ritual that was carried over into Christianity for a time in the early days of the faith for its symbolic spiritual significance but which God didn't intend for Christians to continue and which is not necessary or important to administer or to partake in.

Jesus Christ was baptized and after being baptized, he received the Holy spirit. I believe that what is good for the son of man is good for us.
Both the soul and the body commit sins. The holy spirit is for your soul and the water baptism cleans your body from all sins so that the gift of God (which is the Holy spirit) can live inside of you.
Acts 2:38 says "Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit

Matthew 28:19 says "Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"

Acts 10:47-48 says "Then Peter said, “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have. So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

God Bless us all

Albion · May 21, 2020

TLSITD said:
It's a personal choice. Not all Christians feel the need to make a declaration of their faith in that way. Not all Christians belong to a church.

"Not all Christians" believe that anything that's in the Bible applies to them.

Not too many, from what I gather, but I know there are some.

However, if this is their view, it would seem automatically to mean that they also don't believe in the Bible itself! Not as the word of God, anyway.

Albion · May 21, 2020

Marumorose said:
Jesus Christ was baptized and after being baptized, he received the Holy spirit. I believe that what is good for the son of man is good for us.

W-e-l-l, what that passage in Scripture tells us is that the Holy Spirit was manifested on that occasion along with the Father.

That shows approval or unity or something like that, but the idea that it represents what later was "the Baptism of the Holy Spirit" is very doubtful.

SkyWriting · May 21, 2020

DerSchweik said:
This has already been shown to be a logical fallacy - the positing of hypothetical exceptions (like "what if a person gets hit by a bus on their way to the baptistry?") to rationalize current beliefs.

You don't seem familiar with how people work:

What Does the Bible Say About Being Saved By Faith?

Josheb · May 21, 2020

TLSITD said:
Which baptism is the "one baptism" of Christianity?.

Peter answers that question in his first epistle,

1 Peter 3:15-22
"18For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; 19in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, 20who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. 21Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him."

The "one" baptism is an appeal to God for a good conscience through the resurrection. Paul elaborates on the Ephesians passage when he writes Timothy to say,

Titus 3:4-8
"4But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, 5He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, 6whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life."

The "one" baptism is the "washing of regeneration." Without it no one is saved. Without it we cannot even see the kingdom of God (John 3:3).

Josheb · May 21, 2020

TLSITD said:
What then is the purpose of water baptism? For Jews it was a symbolic ritual representing a desire for a good conscience toward God and repentance from sins.

Not quite. Yes, it is true the water baptism ritual was first a Jewish cleansing ritual (which is why the Jewish leaders refused it), but the post-gospel accounts show this was a ritual also tied to submission to Christ. Anyone can be washed physically. Anyone can even agree to be washed before God but after Pentecost the practice of baptism was inextricably tied to believing in Jesus and believing in Jesus resurrected as THE Son of God.

Acts 16:27-34
"When the jailer awoke and saw the prison doors opened, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself, supposing that the prisoners had escaped. But Paul cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Do not harm yourself, for we are all here!" And he called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas, and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household. And he brought them into his house and set food before them, and rejoiced greatly, having believed in God with his whole household."

No one can have Jesus as Savior if they do not also have him as Lord. Lord and Savior. One day every knew will bow and confess him as Lord, but not all will confess him as Savior. Water baptism is the ritual by which a public confession of Christ as Lord and Savior is made.

Josheb · May 21, 2020

TLSITD said:
Jesus' disciples and the early Christians practiced the same ritual. Yet we have no instructions in the NT for how to water baptize or any command to perform or partake in the ritual.

We do however, have the repeated and uniform report of that ritual being practiced even after Pentecost. So whether or not the ritual was (re-)commanded it was observably standard operating procedure, especially for Gentile converts.

Josheb · May 21, 2020

TLSITD said:
Some believe that Christ sent the apostles to baptize people with water as a part of their evangelistic commission. But if there is only one baptism that saves, why would He? The two are obviously not one and the same.

Because those who were his disciples - those who believed in him even after he was killed - were summoned (commanded) to stay in Jerusalem for the Pentecost experience. The two are inextricable. It is a mistake to see the gospel-period evangelism as something distinct and separable from Pentecost. A plethora of OT prophesies spoke of these occasions holistically.

Josheb · May 21, 2020

TLSITD said:
The apostle Paul water baptized a few people, but he said that Christ did not send him to baptize but rather to preach the gospel (1 Corinthians 1:13-17), through which those who hear and believe are baptized by the Spirit.

Yep.

TLSITD said:
Why would the man who was arguably the greatest apostle not have been sent by Christ to water baptize if water baptism was an important or necessary part of Christianity, and if Jesus had indeed sent His other apostles to water baptize?

Since the scriptures don't specifically answer that question any answer we give would be speculative, exegetically inferential at best, eisegetically inferential at worst.

However, since Paul did, in fact baptize some with water we necessarily understand his preaching the gospel and his baptizing in water were not in conflict with one another. Logically we understand his not doing something doesn't mean it wasn't important or a necessary part of Christianity. That would be an argument from silence. In addition, we understand Paul typically traveled with others, some of whom are the ones doing the baptizing (as is evidenced in his comments to the Corinthians). So we should avoid false dichotomies or all-or-nothing-thinking.

TLSITD · May 21, 2020

Has anyone yet explained how people get saved on their deathbeds without being water baptized?

Josheb · May 21, 2020

TLSITD said:
I am one Christian who believes that water baptism is an obsolete Jewish ritual that was carried over into Christianity for a time in the early days of the faith for its symbolic spiritual significance but which God didn't intend for Christians to continue and which is not necessary or important to administer or to partake in.

And yet, as you have already stated, Jesus commanded his disciples to baptize with water. Where do you read Jesus changing his mind?

Upon what, specifically is the view of obsolescence based? What is it specifically in scripture leads you to conclude this was intended to be discarded after "a time"?

Why would "symbolic spiritual significance" be discarded?

Which baptism is the "one baptism" of Christianity?

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