The Sabbath of the TEN Commandments - for all mankind (V2)

BobRyan · May 19, 2020

Bob S said:
Why can't you face the fact that is was a ritual law. What is wrong with that? .

Bible scholars on both sides of the Sabbath debate agree on this one thing - the Sabbath commandment in the TEN - is not a "ritual law"

but rather a moral law - written on the heart under the NEW Covenant of Jer 31-31-34

where it is a fact that within that unit of TEN uniquely - the 5th commandment "is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 (As Paul reminds us )

No wonder then that scripture says that for all eternity after the cross, in the new earth, "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23

Bob S said:
Why would the Sabbath being a ritual command be so upsetting that you would write something that you have not or cannot prove?

easy --
It wouldn't
I didn't

next.

Bob S said:
What are you trying to prove with that statement?

and go out and walk among the dead bodies and live to be over 100 or as long as trees live and babies born will not die at birth.

having fun?

BABerean2 · May 19, 2020

BobRyan said:
Interesting creative writing.

Meanwhile --

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm all ten of the Ten Commandments for Christians.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

And of course 7th day groups

Why did the author of the Book of Hebrews say we are not come to Mount Sinai in verse 18 below?

But we are come instead to the New Covenant of Mount Sion in verses 22-24?

Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
Heb 12:19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
Heb 12:21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

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Andre_b · May 19, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Why did the author of the Book of Hebrews say we are not come to Mount Sinai in verse 18 below?

But we are come instead to the New Covenant of Mount Sion in verses 22-24?

Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
Heb 12:19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
Heb 12:21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

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Explain to me why God asked Moses to place the book of the law of Moses beside the ark of the covenant and place the 10 commandments inside the ark of the covenant? Why would he separate them?

Exodus 31:18, "And when He had finished speaking with him upon Mount Sinai, He gave Moses the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written by the finger of God

Exodus 40:20, "Then he took the testimony and put it into the ark, and attached the poles to the ark, and put the mercy seat on top of the ark."

Deuteronomy 31:26 "Take this Book of the Law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God. There it will remain as a witness against you."

Colossians 2:14 "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;"

Looks like all that remains is what's inside the ark of the covenant. Christ the new covenant replacing the book of Moses. Christ is now our witness for us.

Revelation 1:5 "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood"

And Revelation 3:14 "And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God" - Jesus is the Amen.

BobRyan · May 20, 2020

Andre_b said:
Explain to me why God asked Moses to place the book of the law of Moses beside the ark of the covenant and place the 10 commandments inside the ark of the covenant? Why would he separate them?

Exodus 31:18, "And when He had finished speaking with him upon Mount Sinai, He gave Moses the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written by the finger of God

Exodus 40:20, "Then he took the testimony and put it into the ark, and attached the poles to the ark, and put the mercy seat on top of the ark."

Deuteronomy 31:26 "Take this Book of the Law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God. There it will remain as a witness against you."

Colossians 2:14 "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;"

Looks like all that remains is what's inside the ark of the covenant. Christ the new covenant replacing the book of Moses. Christ is now our witness for us.

Revelation 1:5 "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood"

And Revelation 3:14 "And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God" - Jesus is the Amen.

BABerean2 said:
Why did the author of the Book of Hebrews say we are not come to Mount Sinai in verse 18 below?

But we are come instead to the New Covenant of Mount Sion in verses 22-24?

Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
Heb 12:19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
Heb 12:21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

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The New Covenant of Jer 31:31-34 is where the LAW of God is written on the heart.

The symbol of Mt Sinai has that moral law of God written externally on stone and is used "symbolically" to represent that moral law of God that has not been written on the heart. It is a "type".

Moses (And Elijah) stand with Christ in Matthew 17 - before the cross - in glory ... sinless - having the New Covenant of Jer 31:31-34 -- which writes the moral law of God known to Jeremiah and his readers - "written on the heart".

Moses and Elijah represent old testament saints that lived at or after Sinai.

BABerean2 · May 21, 2020

BobRyan said:
The symbol of Mt Sinai has that moral law of God written externally on stone and is used "symbolically" to represent that moral law of God that has not been written on the heart. It is a "type".

Can you show the term "moral law" in the scripture? I have never been able to find it in the Bible, but have found it in the writings of men who can not let go of the Sinai Covenant, and ignore the verse below.

Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

The verse below says the Sinai Covenant is the ten commandments.

Exo 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

The passage below proves the Sinai Covenant was not given at an earlier time.

Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
Deu 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

Would Adam have been able to commit adultery? Who would he have committed it with?
Could Adam honor his mother, since he had none?
Therefore, the ten commandments could not have been given to Adam, as some imply.

Why did Paul compel the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai covenant of "bondage" in Galatians 4:24-31? Did Paul use the term "the moral law", or "the ceremonial law"?

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

How many are still under the yoke of the "bondwoman"?

(Former SDA pastor Dale Ratzlaff comments on problems with some of the doctrine of Ellen G. White.)

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Andre_b · May 21, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Can you show the term "moral law" in the scripture? I have never been able to find it in the Bible, but have found it in the writings of men who can not let go of the Sinai Covenant, and ignore the verse below.

Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

The verse below says the Sinai Covenant is the ten commandments.

Exo 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

The passage below proves the Sinai Covenant was not given at an earlier time.

Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
Deu 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

Would Adam have been able to commit adultery? Who would he have committed it with?
Could Adam honor his mother, since he had none?
Therefore, the ten commandments could not have been given to Adam, as some imply.

Why did Paul compel the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai covenant of "bondage" in Galatians 4:24-31? Did Paul use the term "the moral law", or "the ceremonial law"?

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

How many are still under the yoke of the "bondwoman"?

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You are assuming with Adam and Eve. Just because there is no one around to commit adultery doesn't mean the law doesn't exist. Spiritual adultery is unfaithfulness to God. It is having an undue fondness for the things of the world. Spiritual adultery is analogous to the unfaithfulness of one’s spouse: “‘But like a woman faithless to her lover, even so have you been faithless to me, O house of Israel,’ says the LORD” (Jeremiah 3:20; see also Isaiah 1:21; 57:8; Ezekiel 16:30).

Revelation 17 speaks about a church in spiritual adultery as the "Mother of harlots".

Looks like Adam and Eve didn't obey God's command and stole the fruit because it wasn't theirs for the taking, they had faith in Satan instead (spiritual adultery).

In Deut 5:2
He had not spoken to anyone else as He had with them. He appeared on the MT---He had never done thast with anyone else. It is not that the 10 are for the Jews only----Thou shalt not kill---for the Jew only? Thou shalt not steal--for the Jew only? Thou shalt not commit adultery--for the Jew only? Then salvation is for the Jew only?
Rom_3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom_5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Yet, Cain sinned, Joseph said he refused to sin against God. Adam and Eve sinned.
Rom_3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom_5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Joh_14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh_15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
1Jn_2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn_3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn_5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn_5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

For the Jew only? Well----
Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

The Curse and the Book of the Law
Galatians 3:13 informs us that Jesus redeemed us from the curse of the law, that is, everything that was written in the Book of the Law. So was this the Ten Commandment law? The key to this question is found in Galatians 3:10 that has the clear phrase “the Book of the Law.” The following verses demonstrate that the “Book of the Law” is definitely not the Ten Commandments. Here are just two of many that could be quoted.

Joshua 23:6 “Be you therefore very courageous to keep and to do all that is written in the book of the law of Moses, that you turn not aside there from to the right hand or to the left;”

Deuteronomy 31:24-26 “And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, 25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, 26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the SIDE of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against you.”

This now obsolete part of the law and the Old Covenant was written by the hand of Moses in a book and stored in the SIDE of the Ark of the Covenant and so was also called the “Book of the Covenant.” Exodus 24:7 “And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.”

The Old Covenant also included the Ten Commandment Covenant. Exodus 34:28 “And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables [stone] the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.” The Ten Commandment Covenant was stored on the INSIDE of the Ark under the mercy seat. Deuteronomy 10:5 “And I turned myself and came down from the mount, and put the tables IN the ark which I had made; and there they be, as the LORD commanded me.”

Now that Jesus has become our sacrificial lamb and ended the worldly sacrificial sanctuary system, the New Covenant now only has the Ten Commandment Covenant which God now writes in our hearts. Hebrews 9:1 “Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.” Hebrews 8:10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:”

Now note one of the main verses in contention. It is speaking of the “Book of the Law,” not the Ten Commandments. The issue is still the same in that we are not justified by the works of either law, which you will soon see does not make the Ten Commandments null and void through faith as Paul explains in Romans 3. Regardless of this, it is clear that the law being spoken of in the following passage is the Law of Moses which can be seen from the phrase the “Book of the Law” in verse 10.

Galatians 3:9-11 “So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law [Law of Moses] are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law [Law of Moses] in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.” Parentheses are added.

After Moses read from the “Book of the Law” to the Israelites in the final chapters of Deuteronomy, he explained that if they obeyed everything written in the Book of the Law that they would receive God's blessing, but if they disobeyed they would receive God's curses (punishment). The following verse in Joshua is a much clearer verse then could be quoted from Deuteronomy and sheds some light here without having to go into a lot more detail.

Joshua 8:34 “And afterward he read all the words of the law, the blessings and cursings, according to all that is written in the book of the law.”

What Law was added because of Transgressions?
In Genesis 26:5 we are told that “...Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.” These commandments, statutes and laws cannot be the Mosaic Law, because this law was not given until 430 years later.

Galatians 3:17 “And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.” The context of this verse reveals that Paul is still referring to the Mosaic Law rather than the Ten Commandments as one would expect. One verse later is further confirmation that this later law was the Law of Moses.

Galatians 3:19, “Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions till the seed should come to whom the promise was made...” Note that we are given two very significant bits of information as to why this law was added and how long it would remain in effect.

1) Why was it given? Galatians 3:19 states that it was “added because of transgressions.” Since “where no law is, there is no transgression.” (Romans 4:15), one cannot be guilty of transgressing a law which does not exist. So one law obviously already had to exist and this law had been “transgressed,” which made it necessary to add another law 430 years after the covenant God made with Abraham. Since Genesis 26:5 says “Abraham obeyed ... my laws”, we know that this earlier law, which Abraham observed was the Ten Commandments. Moses had not even been born yet, so it could never have been his law! The Ten Commandments had been transgressed making it necessary to add the ceremonial law. This makes perfect sense when you think about. If a law forbidding murder is broken, then another law would have to be enacted to prescribe the penalty for breaking that first law. Remember in Galatians 3:10, Paul refers to the curses “which are written in the book of the law.” This law written in a book was the Mosaic Law as seen earlier.

2) How long did this “added” law remain in effect? Galatians 3:19 says, “Till the seed should come.” There cannot be any controversy over the identity of that seed. It is Jesus Christ. Do we have any evidence that the law which was blotted out and nailed to the cross was in fact the Law of Moses? This law was designated as the “handwriting of ordinances.” Colossians 2:14. Nowhere in the entire Bible are the Ten Commandments identified as ordinances. This term is applied to local legal codes which are very narrow and limited, such as “town ordinances” which extend to the city limits. In comparison, the Ten Commandments are more like the constitution of the United States.

BABerean2 · May 21, 2020

Andre_b said:
Joh_14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh_15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
1Jn_2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn_3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn_5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn_5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

The "bait-and-switch" ploy is often used by those who cannot let go of the Sinai Covenant.

They ignore the scripture which shows a contrast between the Sinai Covenant and the New Covenant.

Then they quote only the scripture that makes their doctrine work.

Are there two different sets of commandments in the verse below?

Joh_15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

The contrast between the two covenants is found below.

Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
Heb 12:19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
Heb 12:21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Why quote only part of 1 John chapter 3, but leave out the important part?

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

If you have to ignore certain verses to make a doctrine work, it cannot be from God.
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Andre_b · May 21, 2020

BABerean2 said:
The "bait-and-switch" ploy is often used by those who cannot let go of the Sinai Covenant.

They ignore the scripture which shows a contrast between the Sinai Covenant and the New Covenant.

Then they quote only the scripture that makes their doctrine work.

Are there two different sets of commandments in the verse below?

Joh_15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

The contrast between the two covenants is found below.

Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
Heb 12:19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
Heb 12:21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Why quote only part of 1 John chapter 3, but leave out the important part?

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

If you have to ignore certain verses to make a doctrine work, it cannot be from God.
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You are trying to do some gymnastics with multiple commandments, yes one of many commandments of the father is to believe in the Son. It's not the only one. Jesus kept his fathers commandments and a bit in his love, so we shouldn't do the same? Interesting...

Jesus also showed us as example of how to live. You ignored the rest of my post.

Love one another is another commandment, but it was an expansion of the love your neighbour as yourself, that already existed, which loving like Jesus is a higher standard. Like the expansion of adultery which was looking at someone with lust, adultery from the heart.

BobRyan · May 21, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Can you show the term "moral law" in the scripture? I have never been able to find it in the Bible, but have found it in the writings of men who can not let go of the Sinai Covenant, and ignore the verse below.

Hmmm "who cannot let go of the sinai covenant" because they use the term "moral" ?? seriously??

Are you talking about C.H. Spurgeon? The Baptist Confession of Faith (sectn 19)?? , The Wesminster Confession of Faith (sectn 19)?? ... almost all Christian scholars on the subject of the Ten??

BABerean2 said:
(Former SDA pastor Dale Ratzlaff comments on problems with some of the doctrine of Ellen G. White.)

Is it your claim that all those denominations got their teaching on the moral law of God from Ellen White??

Seriously??

BobRyan said:
section 19 of the "Baptist Confession of Faith".

Also section 19 of the "Westminster Confession of Faith".

They both affirm that the "TEN Commandments" are included in the "moral law of God" AND are included in that law written on the heart under the NEW Covenant. All TEN.

See the paragraph below from the Baptist Confession,

The Baptist Confession of Faith (1689)

Section 19

19. The Law of God

God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.

The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the Ten Commandments, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.

To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.

The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.

Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works, to be justified or condemned by it, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, because as a rule of life it informs them of the will of God and their duty and directs and binds them to walk accordingly. It also reveals and exposes the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts and lives, and using it for self-examination they may come to greater conviction of sin, greater humility and greater hatred of their sin. They will also gain a clearer sight of their need of Christ and the perfection of His own obedience. It is of further use to regenerate people to restrain their corruptions, because of the way in which it forbids sin. The threatenings of the law serve to show what their sins actually deserve, and what troubles may be expected in this life because of these sins even by regenerate people who are freed from the curse and undiminished rigours of the law. The promises connected with the law also show believers God's approval of obedience, and what blessings they may expect when the law is kept and obeyed, though blessing will not come to them because they have satisfied the law as a covenant of works. If a man does good and refrains from evil simply because the law encourages to the good and deters him from the evil, that is no evidence that he is under the law rather than under grace.

The aforementioned uses of the law are not contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but they sweetly comply with it, as the Spirit of Christ subdues and enables the will of man to do freely and cheerfully those things which the will of God, which is revealed in the law, requires to be done.

=================================

..

Notice the "details" in the "Baptist Confession of Faith" that you speak of --

1. TEN Commandments included in the LAW of God given to mankind in Eden.
2. SAME law given at Sinai as the MORAL Law of God.
3. That law binds all mankind after the cross and before it.
4. It is perfectly consistent with grace and therefore the Gospel
5. Laws OTHER than the TEN commandments were given to Israel and those other laws included the ceremonial laws - which are no longer in place after the cross.

The Westminster Confession of Faith - section 19 makes the SAME 5 points.

===============

Is it any wonder then that my signature line includes this --

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm all ten of the Ten Commandments for Christians written on the heart and mind under the New Covenant of Jer 31:31-33.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

BobRyan said:
Westminster Confession of Faith

Westminster Confession of Faith

Chapter XIX
Of the Law of God
I. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which he bound him and all his posterity, to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience, promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.

II. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in Ten Commandments, and written in two tables: the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.

III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits; and partly, holding forth divers instructions of moral duties. All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated, under the New Testament.

IV. To them also, as a body politic, he gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the State of that people; not obliging under any now, further than the general equity thereof may require.

V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof; and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it. Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.

VI. Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified, or condemned; yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life informing them of the will of God, and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly; discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts and lives; so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin, together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of his obedience. It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin: and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve; and what afflictions, in this life, they may expect for them, although freed from the curse thereof threatened in the law. The promises of it, in like manner, show them God's approbation of obedience,and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof: although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works. So as, a man's doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourages to the one and deters from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law: and not under grace.

VII. Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it; the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely, and cheerfully, which the will of God, revealed in the law, requires to be done.

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm all Ten Commandments for Christians as being included in the "moral law of God" that is written on the heart and mind under the Jer 31:31-33 New Covenant.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism

The law where "the first commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment Eph 6;1-2

BABerean2 · May 21, 2020

BobRyan said:
Hmmm "who cannot let go of the sinai covenant" because they use the term "moral" ?? seriously??

Are you talking about C.H. Spurgeon? The Baptist Confession of Faith (sectn 19)?? , The Wesminster Confession of Faith (sectn 19)?? ... almost all Christian scholars on the subject of the Ten??

Is it your claim that all those denominations got their teaching on the moral law of God from Ellen White??

Seriously??

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm all Ten Commandments for Christians as being included in the "moral law of God" that is written on the heart and mind under the Jer 31:31-33 New Covenant.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism

The law where "the first commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment Eph 6;1-2

The Apostle Paul warned against denominations inf the scripture below.

1Co 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Would you consider addressing the scripture I posted, instead of telling us what the denominations say about the term "the moral law", which comes from men instead of the Bible?

What are the two covenants mentioned in Galatians 4:24-31?

.

BABerean2 · May 21, 2020

Andre_b said:
You are trying to do some gymnastics with multiple commandments, yes one of many commandments of the father is to believe in the Son. It's not the only one. Jesus kept his fathers commandments and a bit in his love, so we shouldn't do the same? Interesting...

Jesus also showed us as example of how to live. You ignored the rest of my post.

Love one another is another commandment, but it was an expansion of the love your neighbour as yourself, that already existed, which loving like Jesus is a higher standard. Like the expansion of adultery which was looking at someone with lust, adultery from the heart.

Are you ignoring the words of Christ in Matthew chapter 5, where Christ contrasts the Old Covenant to the New Covenant, with the words "But I say..."?

Mat 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.'
Mat 5:22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.

Mat 5:27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY.'
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Mat 5:31 "Furthermore it has been said, 'Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.'
Mat 5:32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.

Mat 5:33 "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.'
Mat 5:34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne;

Mat 5:43 "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.'
Mat 5:44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,

Mat 5:38 "You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.'
Mat 5:39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.

What are the two covenants mentioned in Galatians 4:24-31?

.

Andre_b · May 21, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Are you ignoring the words of Christ in Matthew chapter 5, where Christ contrasts the Old Covenant to the New Covenant, with the words "But I say..."?

Mat 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.'
Mat 5:22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.

Mat 5:27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY.'
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Mat 5:31 "Furthermore it has been said, 'Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.'
Mat 5:32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.

Mat 5:33 "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.'
Mat 5:34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne;

Mat 5:43 "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.'
Mat 5:44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,

Mat 5:38 "You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.'
Mat 5:39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.

What are the two covenants mentioned in Galatians 4:24-31?

.

Jesus was showing the DEEPER spiritual level of the 10 commandments nothing changed. That's the point, Jesus showed how to think matters as well, because that's the first step into sin. What do you think Coveting is? The precursor to stealing and possibly more.

Galatians 4 is talking about the LAW of MOSES not the 10 commandments. You can see it in the previous chapter and the previous verses as well.

Galatians 4:9-10 “But now, after that you have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn you again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto you desire again to be in bondage? 10 You observe days, and months, and times, and years.”

Context always says which law they are talking about. the 10 commandments is also called law.

READ CAREFULLY:
Colossians 2:14-16 “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; … 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink [offerings], or in respect of an holyday [feast day], or of the [monthly] new moon, or of the [yearly] Sabbath days:” Parentheses are added.

What was written in the Book of the Law was “against us, which was contrary to us” and why Paul calls this law “bondage.” The Ten Commandments on the other hand is the “perfect law of liberty” and liberty of course means freedom, which is the opposite of bondage. Since the Bible does not contradict itself, this also identifies what law is being spoken of. If Paul is calling it bondage, he is speaking of what is written in the “Book of the Law.”

James 1:25 “But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.”

For clarity and confirmation on which law James is referring to.

the law here is all 10 commandments, not mixed with ordinances
James 2:10-13 “For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet if you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak you, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.” This defines what not to do, Christ is protecting us from this condemnation however it doesn't mean we don't obey the law of liberty.

The Law is perfect:

The law of the LORD is perfect, reviving the soul; the testimony of the LORD is trustworthy, making wise the simple. (Psalm 19:7)

If you keep God's Law you have liberty from sin. For sin is transgression of the Law.

In conclusion, the one who looks "intently into the mirror of the Law of Liberty" (James 2:23-25) will see the image of Jesus Christ reflected, albeit dimly according to 1 Cor 13:12-13. This image places logical priority on love, but without any compromise to holiness. The believer must therefore act and behave in the priority of love, but without any compromise to holiness. This concept is the Law of Liberty.

The Curse and the Book of the Law:
God didn't write in a book, Moses did.
Galatians 3:13 informs us that Jesus redeemed us from the curse of the law, that is, everything that was written in the Book of the Law. So was this the Ten Commandment law? The key to this question is found in Galatians 3:10 that has the clear phrase “the Book of the Law.” The following verses demonstrate that the “Book of the Law” is definitely not the Ten Commandments. Here are just two of many that could be quoted.

Joshua 23:6 “Be you therefore very courageous to keep and to do all that is written in the book of the law of Moses, that you turn not aside there from to the right hand or to the left;”

Deuteronomy 31:24-26 “And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, 25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, 26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the SIDE of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against you.”

This now obsolete part of the law and the Old Covenant was written by the hand of Moses in a book and stored in the SIDE of the Ark of the Covenant and so was also called the “Book of the Covenant.” Exodus 24:7 “And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.”

The Old Covenant also included the Ten Commandment Covenant. Exodus 34:28 “And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables [stone] the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.” The Ten Commandment Covenant was stored on the INSIDE of the Ark under the mercy seat. Deuteronomy 10:5 “And I turned myself and came down from the mount, and put the tables IN the ark which I had made; and there they be, as the LORD commanded me.”

Now that Jesus has become our sacrificial lamb and ended the worldly sacrificial sanctuary system, the New Covenant now only has the Ten Commandment Covenant which God now writes in our hearts. Hebrews 9:1 “Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.” Hebrews 8:10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:”

Now note one of the main verses in contention. It is speaking of the “Book of the Law,” not the Ten Commandments. The issue is still the same in that we are not justified by the works of either law, which you will soon see does not make the Ten Commandments null and void through faith as Paul explains in Romans 3. Regardless of this, it is clear that the law being spoken of in the following passage is the Law of Moses which can be seen from the phrase the “Book of the Law” in verse 10.

Galatians 3:9-11 “So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law [Law of Moses] are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law [Law of Moses] in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.” Parentheses are added.

After Moses read from the “Book of the Law” to the Israelites in the final chapters of Deuteronomy, he explained that if they obeyed everything written in the Book of the Law that they would receive God's blessing, but if they disobeyed they would receive God's curses (punishment). The following verse in Joshua is a much clearer verse then could be quoted from Deuteronomy and sheds some light here without having to go into a lot more detail.

Joshua 8:34 “And afterward he read all the words of the law, the blessings and cursings, according to all that is written in the book of the law.”

What Law was added because of Transgressions?
In Genesis 26:5 we are told that “...Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.” These commandments, statutes and laws cannot be the Mosaic Law, because this law was not given until 430 years later.

Galatians 3:17 “And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.” The context of this verse reveals that Paul is still referring to the Mosaic Law rather than the Ten Commandments as one would expect. One verse later is further confirmation that this later law was the Law of Moses.

Galatians 3:19, “Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions till the seed should come to whom the promise was made...” Note that we are given two very significant bits of information as to why this law was added and how long it would remain in effect.

1) Why was it given? Galatians 3:19 states that it was “added because of transgressions.” Since “where no law is, there is no transgression.” (Romans 4:15), one cannot be guilty of transgressing a law which does not exist. So one law obviously already had to exist and this law had been “transgressed,” which made it necessary to add another law 430 years after the covenant God made with Abraham. Since Genesis 26:5 says “Abraham obeyed ... my laws”, we know that this earlier law, which Abraham observed was the Ten Commandments. Moses had not even been born yet, so it could never have been his law! The Ten Commandments had been transgressed making it necessary to add the ceremonial law. This makes perfect sense when you think about. If a law forbidding murder is broken, then another law would have to be enacted to prescribe the penalty for breaking that first law. Remember in Galatians 3:10, Paul refers to the curses “which are written in the book of the law.” This law written in a book was the Mosaic Law as seen earlier.

2) How long did this “added” law remain in effect? Galatians 3:19 says, “Till the seed should come.” There cannot be any controversy over the identity of that seed. It is Jesus Christ. Do we have any evidence that the law which was blotted out and nailed to the cross was in fact the Law of Moses? This law was designated as the “handwriting of ordinances.” Colossians 2:14. Nowhere in the entire Bible are the Ten Commandments identified as ordinances. This term is applied to local legal codes which are very narrow and limited, such as “town ordinances” which extend to the city limits. In comparison, the Ten Commandments are more like the constitution of the United States.

BobRyan · May 21, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Can you show the term "moral law" in the scripture? I have never been able to find it in the Bible, but have found it in the writings of men who can not let go of the Sinai Covenant, and ignore the verse below.

in reality we have this --

BobRyan said:
section 19 of the "Baptist Confession of Faith".

Also section 19 of the "Westminster Confession of Faith".

They both affirm that the "TEN Commandments" are included in the "moral law of God" AND are included in that law written on the heart under the NEW Covenant. All TEN.

See the paragraph below from the Baptist Confession,

The Baptist Confession of Faith (1689)

Section 19

19. The Law of God

God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.

The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the Ten Commandments, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.

To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.

The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.

Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works, to be justified or condemned by it, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, because as a rule of life it informs them of the will of God and their duty and directs and binds them to walk accordingly. It also reveals and exposes the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts and lives, and using it for self-examination they may come to greater conviction of sin, greater humility and greater hatred of their sin. They will also gain a clearer sight of their need of Christ and the perfection of His own obedience. It is of further use to regenerate people to restrain their corruptions, because of the way in which it forbids sin. The threatenings of the law serve to show what their sins actually deserve, and what troubles may be expected in this life because of these sins even by regenerate people who are freed from the curse and undiminished rigours of the law. The promises connected with the law also show believers God's approval of obedience, and what blessings they may expect when the law is kept and obeyed, though blessing will not come to them because they have satisfied the law as a covenant of works. If a man does good and refrains from evil simply because the law encourages to the good and deters him from the evil, that is no evidence that he is under the law rather than under grace.

The aforementioned uses of the law are not contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but they sweetly comply with it, as the Spirit of Christ subdues and enables the will of man to do freely and cheerfully those things which the will of God, which is revealed in the law, requires to be done.

=================================

..

Notice the "details" in the "Baptist Confession of Faith" that you speak of --

1. TEN Commandments included in the LAW of God given to mankind in Eden.
2. SAME law given at Sinai as the MORAL Law of God.
3. That law binds all mankind after the cross and before it.
4. It is perfectly consistent with grace and therefore the Gospel
5. Laws OTHER than the TEN commandments were given to Israel and those other laws included the ceremonial laws - which are no longer in place after the cross.

The Westminster Confession of Faith - section 19 makes the SAME 5 points.

===============

Is it any wonder then that my signature line includes this --

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm all ten of the Ten Commandments for Christians written on the heart and mind under the New Covenant of Jer 31:31-33.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

BobRyan said:
Westminster Confession of Faith

Westminster Confession of Faith

Chapter XIX
Of the Law of God
I. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which he bound him and all his posterity, to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience, promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.

II. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in Ten Commandments, and written in two tables: the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.

III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, his graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits; and partly, holding forth divers instructions of moral duties. All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated, under the New Testament.

IV. To them also, as a body politic, he gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the State of that people; not obliging under any now, further than the general equity thereof may require.

V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof; and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it. Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.

VI. Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified, or condemned; yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life informing them of the will of God, and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly; discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts and lives; so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin, together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of his obedience. It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin: and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve; and what afflictions, in this life, they may expect for them, although freed from the curse thereof threatened in the law. The promises of it, in like manner, show them God's approbation of obedience,and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof: although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works. So as, a man's doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourages to the one and deters from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law: and not under grace.

VII. Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it; the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely, and cheerfully, which the will of God, revealed in the law, requires to be done.

I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm all Ten Commandments for Christians as being included in the "moral law of God" that is written on the heart and mind under the Jer 31:31-33 New Covenant.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism

The law where "the first commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment Eph 6;1-2

BABerean2 said:
The Apostle Paul warned against denominations inf the scripture below.

1Co 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
.

you claimed it was just one denomination ...

BABerean2 said:
(Former SDA pastor Dale Ratzlaff comments on problems with some of the doctrine of Ellen G. White.)
.

when not claiming that it excluded the sunday groups...

BABerean2 said:
Can you show the term "moral law" in the scripture? I have never been able to find it in the Bible, but have found it in the writings of men who can not let go of the Sinai Covenant, and ignore the verse below.

And yet it is on the very point where they agree with me - all TEN of the TEN Commandments included in the moral law of God - under the NEW Covenant of Jer 31:31-34 where you try to reduce it down to "Just SDAs".

Did you miss your own point?

BobRyan · May 21, 2020

BABerean2 said:
What are the two covenants mentioned in Galatians 4:24-31?
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I already did that... #1

BABerean2 · May 21, 2020

Andre_b said:
Galatians 4 is talking about the LAW of MOSES not the 10 commandments.

Are you claiming the 10 commandments are not the Sinai Covenant?

Exo 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

.

Andre_b · May 21, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Are you ignoring the words of Christ in Matthew chapter 5, where Christ contrasts the Old Covenant to the New Covenant, with the words "But I say..."?

Mat 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.'
Mat 5:22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.

Mat 5:27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY.'
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Mat 5:31 "Furthermore it has been said, 'Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.'
Mat 5:32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.

Mat 5:33 "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.'
Mat 5:34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne;

Mat 5:43 "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.'
Mat 5:44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,

Mat 5:38 "You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.'
Mat 5:39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.

What are the two covenants mentioned in Galatians 4:24-31?

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Romans 2:25-28 is clear that the law of Moses is the secondary law. Paul is using a symbolic way of explaining following the law of Moses and than the law of God. And if you break the law of God then Moses' law of circumcision is useless.

Romans 2:25-28 "For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God."

BABerean2 said:
Are you claiming the 10 commandments are not the Sinai Covenant?

Exo 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

.

The Book of the Covenant which Moses wrote is the one that kept men in bondage because it included all the other ceremonial things.

More than one covenant were given at mount Sinai. That's why the Ten Commandments are inside the ark of the covenant and the Written Book of Moses is BESIDE the ark of the covenant.

commandments existed before Israel, simply they didn't know about it because they were NOT following the true God yet and were still in the ways of Egypt.

Exodus 16 To the children of Israel (before Mt. Sinai) God said,

25 Moses said, “Eat it today, for today is a Sabbath to the Lord; today you will not find it in the field. 26 Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, which is a Sabbath, there will be none.” 27 On the seventh day some of the people went out to gather, but they found none. 28 And the Lord said to Moses, “How long will you refuse to keep my commandments and my laws?

Exodus 24:7-8 Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read it in the hearing of the people. And they said, “All that the Lord has spoken we will do, and we will be obedient.” 8 And Moses took the blood and threw it on the people and said, “Behold the blood of the covenant that the Lord has made with you in accordance with all these words.”

Exodus 34:28 "And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments."

Deuteronomy 4:3 "And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone."

Even if the 10 commandments may be included in the book of the covenant. The everlasting one is inside the Ark of The Covenant. That's why they are separate.

Don't forget we are the seed (children) of Israel (Spiritual Israel).
Romans 9:24
24 even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles. 25 As He says also in Hosea,
“I will call those who were not My people, ‘My people,’
And her who was not beloved, ‘beloved.’”
26 “And it shall be that in the place where it was said to them, ‘you are not My people,’
There they shall be called sons of the living God.”
27 Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, “Though the number of the sons of Israel be like the sand of the sea, it is the remnant that will be saved;

Exodus 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

Here is a great explanation in detail here about the covanent: What exactly is the Sinai Covenant? | Set Apart People

BobRyan · May 21, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Are you claiming the 10 commandments are not the Sinai Covenant?
.

Do you have a quote from me saying that the Ten commandments were not written on stone at Sinai?

So then what causes you to say that?

Is it .. this? #1

HARK! · May 22, 2020

BABerean2 said:
Are you ignoring the words of Christ in Matthew chapter 5, where Christ contrasts the Old Covenant to the New Covenant, with the words "But I say..."?

Yahshua doesn't contradict YHWH's word. That would make him a false prophet. He magnifies YHWH's law.

HARK! · May 22, 2020

Andre_b said:
Galatians 4 is talking about the LAW of MOSES not the 10 commandments.

The law given to Moses was given by YHWH. It's YHWH's law. It includes the 10 commandments.

klutedavid · May 22, 2020

BABerean2 said:
The "bait-and-switch" ploy is often used by those who cannot let go of the Sinai Covenant.

They ignore the scripture which shows a contrast between the Sinai Covenant and the New Covenant.

Then they quote only the scripture that makes their doctrine work.

Are there two different sets of commandments in the verse below?

Joh_15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

The contrast between the two covenants is found below.

Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
Heb 12:19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
Heb 12:21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Why quote only part of 1 John chapter 3, but leave out the important part?

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

If you have to ignore certain verses to make a doctrine work, it cannot be from God.
.

Someone actually quoted the commandments from one John. Don't tell me you read one John from beginning to end. Not many folk around here do that, they never address the fuller context of any letter.

They follow a more traditional interpretation of the scripture. One that ultimately reverses the narration of the scripture.

Instead of ending with the death and resurrection of the Christ. They end up in Genesis with God rested on the seventh day.

The Sabbath of the TEN Commandments - for all mankind (V2)

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