20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

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Marilyn C

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Re Rev. 21: 24, the “nations” are the elect alone.
Those in Heb. 11:16 who look for a city are the elect alone.
The overcomers in Rev. 3: 21 are the elect alone.

Why would anyone ask such questions?

People are either saved or lost. Simple! Biblical! Who are your third group of half saved wicked you invent to populate your imaginary future millennium?

(lol) `half this or that.` Did have a chuckle at that one.

So glad you actually looked up the scriptures. Great.

1. Nations on the earth. (Rev. 21: 24) You missed that one.
2. In the New Jerusalem. (Heb. 11: 16) Yes they are ALSO elect. They are the just/righteous men & women in the General Assembly along side the Body of Christ (Church) all waiting for their particular inheritance. (Heb. 12: 22 & 23)
3. The Third heaven. (Rev. 3: 21) the overcomers, the Body of Christ with the Lord on His seat of power and authority.

Now yes, people are either saved or lost, BUT there are different inheritances for the different groups.

For example those who looked to God, but never knew of Jesus, will be judged on their works. (Rev. 20: 11 - 15) While we the Body of Christ had the wonderful opportunity to know Of Christ, His sacrifice for us and to have the Divine nature in us by His Holy Spirit. No other group has the Lord`s Divine nature in them as that was only possible after He died, ascended and then sent His Holy Spirit.

I don`t think people really appreciate the wonderful blessing we have as the Body of Christ. even Israel will have to have God`s laws written on their heart, but they wont have what we have. we are made for the highest ruling position in all of God`s great kingdom. others are blessed to be in God`s great Kingdom but in different realms.
 
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sovereigngrace

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(lol) `half this or that.` Did have a chuckle at that one.

So glad you actually looked up the scriptures. Great.

1. Nations on the earth. (Rev. 21: 24) You missed that one.
2. In the New Jerusalem. (Heb. 11: 16) Yes they are ALSO elect. They are the just/righteous men & women in the General Assembly along side the Body of Christ (Church) all waiting for their particular inheritance. (Heb. 12: 22 & 23)
3. The Third heaven. (Rev. 3: 21) the overcomers, the Body of Christ with the Lord on His seat of power and authority.

Now yes, people are either saved or lost, BUT there are different inheritances for the different groups.

For example those who looked to God, but never knew of Jesus, will be judged on their works. (Rev. 20: 11 - 15) While we the Body of Christ had the wonderful opportunity to know Of Christ, His sacrifice for us and to have the Divine nature in us by His Holy Spirit. No other group has the Lord`s Divine nature in them as that was only possible after He died, ascended and then sent His Holy Spirit.

I don`t think people really appreciate the wonderful blessing we have as the Body of Christ. even Israel will have to have God`s laws written on their heart, but they wont have what we have. we are made for the highest ruling position in all of God`s great kingdom. others are blessed to be in God`s great Kingdom but in different realms.

You divide the people of God when God united them as one through the blood of Jesus.
 
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Marilyn C

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Wherever and whoever they were, they were either saved or unsaved.

God drew no other covenant distinctions.



Christ has only one Body -- the saved.

Christ has only one Chosen People -- the saved.



Humanity consists of the saved and the unsaved. Is that 'soup'?

God draws no other covenant distinctions.



They are the saved alone, and they go to the destination that God has prepared for the saved alone.

So God`s word says there will be people on the new earth and people in the city and people on Christ`s throne in the third heaven. All saved but with different inheritances.
 
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Marilyn C

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You divide the people of God when God united them as one through the blood of Jesus.

Not divided. You may have a family of 3 boys and they are all family but you may give them each a different inheritance.
 
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Marilyn C

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Romans 1
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

That`s good jgr. So for those who do turn to God then they will be judged on their works according to their God given conscience. They will not however be in the Body of Christ or Israel. They are of the nations. (Rev. 21: 24)
 
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Marilyn C

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Why wouldn't God make an earthly nation, grant them free will, and then protect and bless those of the nation who chose to be faithful and obedient to Him?

No, that is not nonsense.

Yes but you seem to think that Israel does not count any more in God`s purposes.
 
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Marilyn C

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Pretribbers make the broad road the narrow road and the narrow road the broad road. They invent a Pretrib rapture to give man a second chance. It is a Jesuit doctrine that has not one proof text. It is an invention of man.

God destroyed all the wicked in Noah’s day and Sodom, as He will all the wicked when Jesus comes. There is no space for your imaginary 7 year trib and future millennium.

Those `roads` are to do with Israel as many couldn`t follow the Law.

As for an imaginary trib, I believe it will start next year, so we wont have long to wait and see.

As to God destroying all the wicked, I can assure you there were thousands of wicked still on the earth after those judgments.
 
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sovereigngrace

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(lol) `half this or that.` Did have a chuckle at that one.

So glad you actually looked up the scriptures. Great.

1. Nations on the earth. (Rev. 21: 24) You missed that one.
2. In the New Jerusalem. (Heb. 11: 16) Yes they are ALSO elect. They are the just/righteous men & women in the General Assembly along side the Body of Christ (Church) all waiting for their particular inheritance. (Heb. 12: 22 & 23)
3. The Third heaven. (Rev. 3: 21) the overcomers, the Body of Christ with the Lord on His seat of power and authority.

Now yes, people are either saved or lost, BUT there are different inheritances for the different groups.

For example those who looked to God, but never knew of Jesus, will be judged on their works. (Rev. 20: 11 - 15) While we the Body of Christ had the wonderful opportunity to know Of Christ, His sacrifice for us and to have the Divine nature in us by His Holy Spirit. No other group has the Lord`s Divine nature in them as that was only possible after He died, ascended and then sent His Holy Spirit.

I don`t think people really appreciate the wonderful blessing we have as the Body of Christ. even Israel will have to have God`s laws written on their heart, but they wont have what we have. we are made for the highest ruling position in all of God`s great kingdom. others are blessed to be in God`s great Kingdom but in different realms.

So far you have nothing to prove Pretrib. All you have is elaborate extra-biblical man-made theories that do not say what you are wanting the inspired text to say.

There has only ever been one people of God. We have been grafted into faithful Israel. You are trying to make 2 out of 1, when Scriptures clearly make 1 out of 2. I prefer Scripture to your theories.

Galatians 3:28 says, There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Romans 2:28-29 plainly states, For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh.”

Paul explains in Romans 9:8: “they which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”

Romans 10:12 states: For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.”

Colossians 3:11 teaches: “Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.”

Race means nothing any more – forever, it is all of grace. Being natural means nothing when it comes to salvation. That is a Dispy myth that conflicts with New Testament teaching.

The fact is, there is (and only has been) one people of God from the beginning. Whilst they were largely found within the nation of Israel before the cross, that was broadened out after the cross to embrace all nations. Race means nothing under the new covenant. The New Testament outlines clearly and repeatedly that "there is no difference between Jews and Gentiles.

1 Corinthians 12:13 tells us: "by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles."

Peter taught in Acts 15:9 that “God … put no difference between us and them.”

Paul the apostle spoke of believers as “us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles” (Romans 9:24).

The reality is: “he [Christ] is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us” (Eph 2:14) in order “to make in himself of twain one new man” (Eph 2:15). He done this so that “he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross” (Eph 2:16). The result of this incredible spiritual union has meant Paul the Apostle could say of the Gentiles: “ye are … fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God” (Eph 2:19).

We have become one man with spiritual Israel (the good olive tree). The elect of God cannot be split into two halves. The elect are all one in Christ. There are no sub-groups, schisms or extra-Church groupings accepted of God. There is one God, one Gospel, one type of salvation, one Shepherd and one fold.

The New Testament makes clear; there is only one elect people. There is only one good olive tree, not two; one body, not two; one bride, not two; one spiritual temple, not two; one people of God, not two; one household of faith, not two; one fold, not two; one man, not “twain,” and one elect of God throughout time
 
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jgr

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So God`s word says there will be people on the new earth and people in the city and people on Christ`s throne in the third heaven. All saved but with different inheritances.

Wherever they may be, there will be no unsaved among them.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Those `roads` are to do with Israel as many couldn`t follow the Law.

As for an imaginary trib, I believe it will start next year, so we wont have long to wait and see.

As to God destroying all the wicked, I can assure you there were thousands of wicked still on the earth after those judgments.

I believed this nonsense for years and was glad to abandon it for God’s truth. Many in the US and throughout the world have saw through this Jesuit doctrine. Thankfully it is in free fall. It just needs to be given a decent burial.

Where in scripture teaches a rapture of the Church, followed by a 7 year trib followed by a third coming?
 
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sovereigngrace

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Yes but you seem to think that Israel does not count any more in God`s purposes.

Not so. All races, ethnic groups, nations and tribes can be saved if they come to Christ and repent of their sin. They can join us in the true believing Israeli tree.

There is no racial preference any more. The Gospel is open to all nations today.
 
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jgr

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That`s good jgr. So for those who do turn to God then they will be judged on their works according to their God given conscience. They will not however be in the Body of Christ or Israel. They are of the nations. (Rev. 21: 24)

They are of the saved, which is all that matters.
 
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agapelove

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Slavery had an OT purpose. Marriage has a purpose. You portray the old covenant sacrifice system as pointless. But nothing God institutes and requires strict allegiance to is so. This was an elaborate yet temporary covenant to cover mans sin and allow him to approach a holy God until the final sacrifice for sin came.

I did not say the sacrifice system was pointless. But it was futile in pleasing God and atoning for sins. Heb 10:1-4 states "For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins. It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. Furthermore Romans 3:20 states that "No one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands. The law simply shows us how sinful we are."

I agree, however because the people of Israel could not face God as Moses did, and listen and obey God had to contain them otherwise they would have destroyed themselves or other nations would have. Thus the animal sacrifices were a stark lesson in the need for shed blood for sin.

Note God instituted sacrifices well before Lev. 17: 7.

Exactly. The Law was given to reveal sin. Shedding blood for sin served as a reminder of the wages, but I oppose that it was required for forgiveness and it definitely did not achieve right-standing with God. The practice of sacrifices and offerings were invented in the days of Cain and Abel but not by the demand of God. It spawned from our innate need to appease the divine by way of compensation and eventually it spiraled into pagan rituals and child sacrifices, despite all the OT guidelines!
 
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agapelove

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Jesus said in Matthew 22:32, “I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.”

Jesus said in Mark 12:27 records, “He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.”

Jesus said in Luke 20:38 records, For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.”

The Bible says they are alive.

Philippians 2:9-11 says, “Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”

Here are the three places that men can currently be found – heaven, earth, and hell. Whilst saved and lost can both be found on earth, only the redeemed are in heaven and only the wicked are in hell. Revelation 5:3 repeats that, saying, “And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.”

Ephesians 3:14-15 alludes to the two places where the redeemed can be found, saying, “For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named.”

Family or 'patria' represents paternal descent lineage, family kindred. It is also found in Luke 2:4, Acts 3:25 denoting house[hold] or family.

Ephesians 1:10 records: “That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him.”

Colossians 1:20: “having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.”

When Christ comes He will bring the dead in Christ with Him. Jesus said in Matthew 24:31, of His Coming, “And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”

Mark 13:27 enlarges slightly, saying, “And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”

I Thessalonians 3:13 says, “To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints."

1 Thessalonians 4:14 says, “For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.”

Jude 14 similarly says, “And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints. To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”

Luke 9:28-31 says of Christ, “he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray. And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering. And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias: Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.”

Moses and Elijah were still very much alive and kicking!!!

Jesus said in Luke 16:19-31, “There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.”

The passage continues, “Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead” (Luke 16:19-31).

The just are clearly “comforted” here.

The lost are clearly “tormented” here.

But it talking about the man in hell sending someone to his brothers who were still physically alive and warning them about the flames. This can't be after the coming of Christ.

Jesus said to the dying thief, in Luke 23:43, "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."

Acts 7:59-60 records, “And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.”

Stephen’s spirit was separating from his body and went to be with God. However, his body was going to the grave.

2 Corinthians 5:8 says, "We are confident, I say, and willing rather ‘to be absent’ from the body, and ‘to be present’ with the Lord."

‘ekdeemeesai’ – ‘be absent’

‘endeemeesai’ – ‘be present’

Paul said in Philippians 1:21-24 says, “For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.”

Death was a promotion for Paul!!!

1 Thessalonians 5:10 tells us that Christ “died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.”

The writer to the Hebrews censures such a foolish earthly notion of focusing upon the physical Jerusalem below, in Hebrews 12:18, 22-23, saying, “For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest …but ye are come unto mount sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect.”

Revelation

Revelation 14:13 agrees: “And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.”

In Revelation 4:4, 10, 5:8, 14, 11:6, 19:4, we see 24 Elders around the throne in heaven. Who are they? Also, in Revelation 7 we see several references to 144,000 in heaven that have been redeemed from off the earth. Who are they?

Revelation 20:4 says, “And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them.”

And continues, “I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.”

Revelation 6:9-10 similarly says, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?”

Revelation 6:9-10 – the fifth seal – is unquestionably speaking (1) of heaven and also (2) of a time prior to the Second Advent and the day of God’s wrath – the sixth seal.

The very next verse of this narrative (6:11) says, “And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.”

Here we clearly have a heavenly scene, and a heavenly scene in this present period of time. It reveals the risen saints in glory awaiting the consummation of all things.

Revelation 15:1-3 says, “I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God. I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, andover his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the lamb, saying, great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.”

Again, this relates to the intra-Advent period. Also, there is no doubt that this scene is in heaven and that “victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name” evidently meant martyrdom for those in view. However, absent from the body for the believer assuredly means present with the Lord in His heavenly abode.

Revelation 7:9-14 adds further light on the matter, saying, “I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb…one of the elders answered, saying unto me, what are these which are arrayed in white robes? And whence came they? And I said unto him, sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, these are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”

The souls are therefore identified here as (1) the redeemed and are clearly located (2) in heaven.

Verse 15 continues, “Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.”

Thank you very much for this in depth exposition. I will have to review the scriptures you provided and hope to get back to you soon about this.
 
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Marilyn C

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So far you have nothing to prove Pretrib. All you have is elaborate extra-biblical man-made theories that do not say what you are wanting the inspired text to say.

There has only ever been one people of God. We have been grafted into faithful Israel. You are trying to make 2 out of 1, when Scriptures clearly make 1 out of 2. I prefer Scripture to your theories.

Galatians 3:28 says, There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Romans 2:28-29 plainly states, For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh.”

Paul explains in Romans 9:8: “they which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”

Romans 10:12 states: For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.”

Colossians 3:11 teaches: “Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.”

Race means nothing any more – forever, it is all of grace. Being natural means nothing when it comes to salvation. That is a Dispy myth that conflicts with New Testament teaching.

The fact is, there is (and only has been) one people of God from the beginning. Whilst they were largely found within the nation of Israel before the cross, that was broadened out after the cross to embrace all nations. Race means nothing under the new covenant. The New Testament outlines clearly and repeatedly that "there is no difference between Jews and Gentiles.

1 Corinthians 12:13 tells us: "by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles."

Peter taught in Acts 15:9 that “God … put no difference between us and them.”

Paul the apostle spoke of believers as “us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles” (Romans 9:24).

The reality is: “he [Christ] is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us” (Eph 2:14) in order “to make in himself of twain one new man” (Eph 2:15). He done this so that “he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross” (Eph 2:16). The result of this incredible spiritual union has meant Paul the Apostle could say of the Gentiles: “ye are … fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God” (Eph 2:19).

We have become one man with spiritual Israel (the good olive tree). The elect of God cannot be split into two halves. The elect are all one in Christ. There are no sub-groups, schisms or extra-Church groupings accepted of God. There is one God, one Gospel, one type of salvation, one Shepherd and one fold.

The New Testament makes clear; there is only one elect people. There is only one good olive tree, not two; one body, not two; one bride, not two; one spiritual temple, not two; one people of God, not two; one household of faith, not two; one fold, not two; one man, not “twain,” and one elect of God throughout time

So true `root of the Olive tree.` I am the ROOT and offspring of David.` (Rev. 22: 16)

It is the Lord we, the Body of Christ are grafted into NOT Israel. Israel is NOT holy, not able to nourish us, for as Rom.11: 16 & 17 tell us it is the Lord who is HOLY who NOURISHES US.

Jews and Gentiles in one Body in Christ. (Eph. 1: 21, 2: 15 & 16)

Jews in Israel still have a purpose in God. (Heb. 11: 16)

The nations still have a purpose in God. (Rev. 21: 24)
 
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Marilyn C

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Wherever they may be, there will be no unsaved among them.

That`s right, however they did not know of the Lord`s sacrifice and were saved (to go on the earth) because they were judged at the Great White Throne according to their works.

WE, the Body of Christ are NOT JUDGED!!!!!!!
 
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jgr

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That`s right, however they did not know of the Lord`s sacrifice and were saved (to go on the earth) because they were judged at the Great White Throne according to their works.

WE, the Body of Christ are NOT JUDGED!!!!!!!

Only the saved, irrespective of their origins, are in the Body of Christ.
 
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