Did God ever revoke his covenant with David tentatively?

OldWiseGuy · May 19, 2020

Josheb said:
This is real simple, IWG:

Acts 2 states something quite specific. Go back and read through your own posts and see what you've posted about Acts 2. When you realize you haven't posted anything about Acts 2 then ask yourself, "Why have I avoided Josh's point? Why have I completely failed to engage what Acts 2?"

Then ask yourself, "Why am I making this about differences in interpretation when Josh hasn't interpreted anything?"

I have repeatedly emphasized the words "states" and "stated" in my posts to you. I did that for two reasons: First to because that is what is stated plainly, and second, because what is stated precludes any need for interpretation.

So when you say, "...based on clear differences in the interpretation of scripture..." you're necessarily pointing to a problem on your side of this conversation! Stop interpreting!!! Read the text as written, plainly read. Not every scripture has to be interpreted! One of the most basic rules of sound exegesis is..... render the figurative by the literal. Another is..... render the OT by what the NT says about it. Stop hiding behind "interpretations" and read what Peter said as he stated it.

Acts 2:29-33 ESV
“Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne, he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing."

No interpretation required.

God was speaking about the resurrection of Christ. Period. Nothing more. Nothing less. Something specifically stated without any need whatsoever for interpretation.

Now can you engage Acts 2 or not? Can you engage Acts 2 as written? Can you engage Acts 2 with leaving the passage and interjecting unrelated verses? Can you engage what Acts 2 states about David descendant on the throne without appealing to persons other than David and Jesus? Can you engage Acts 2?

Because if not that has nothing whatsoever to do with "my" interpretation because I am not interpreting the text. I'm reading it exactly as written. I'm reading it without interpretation. I'm letting that verse do the interpreting and the reason I'm letting that verse do the interpreting is because that is what it does: that verse interprets the oath God swore!

Can you.... will you engage Acts 2:29-33 as written?

Acts 2:29-33 has nothing to do with the op's question. You injected it (to the puzzlement myself and others I'm sure), insisting that it has something to do with the throne of David being given to Christ forever, a fact so established that it is beyond questioning. You seem obsessed with your interpretation. I suggest counseling with your pastor about it.

Semper-Fi · May 19, 2020

Josheb said:
Jesus has been given rule over everything.

Hebrews 2:8 But
"we see not yet all things put under him."

1 Corinthians 15:27-28 (KJV)
For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted which did put all things under him.

And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

God's word says he has authority
and rules over all.

Are you saying Revelation 11:15 is fulfilled
already? all seven Trumpets have sounded ?
The kingdoms of this world [not in heaven].

In Daniel 2:44: “… and the kingdom shall not be
left to other people, but it shall break in pieces
and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall
stand for ever.”

The kingdoms, or governments, of this world will
be consumed and replaced by the Kingdom of God.

Daniel 7:18 The saints here would have to be
immortal to take and possesses it forever. All
the Kingdoms mentioned in Daniel are physical
and was on this earth [not in heaven].

"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."

The bible says Christ is on the right side on the
Fathers Throne, not King Davids throne.

He pictured Himself as the nobleman (Luke 19:12)
who went to a far country (heaven) to get for Himself a Kingdom, and, who, after receiving the right to the Kingdom, would return.

Christ will sit on His own Throne. The Saints
will sit with Him on His Throne on earth.

Even though Satan is now the “god of this age”
(2 Corinthians 4:4), it belongs to him only because
Almighty God has granted it to Him (Luke 4:6).

OldWiseGuy · May 19, 2020

Semper-Fi said:
Hebrews 2:8 But
"we see not yet all things put under him."

Are you saying Revelation 11:15 is fullfiled
already? all seven Trumphets have sounded?
The kingdoms of this world [not in heaven].

In Daniel 2:44: “… and the kingdom shall not be
left to other people, but it shall break in pieces
and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall
stand for ever.”

The kingdoms, or governments, of this world will
be consumed and replaced by the Kingdom of God.

Daniel 7:18 The saints here would have to be
immortal to take and posesses it forever. All
the Kingdoms mentioned in Daniel are physical
and was on this earth [not in heaven].

"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."

The bible says Christ is on the right side on the
Fathers Throne, not King Davids throne.

He pictured Himself as the nobleman (Luke 19:12)
who went to a far country (heaven) to get for Himself a Kingdom, and, who, after receiving the right to the Kingdom, would return.

Christ will sit on His own Throne. The Saints
will sit with Him on His Throne on earth.

Even though Satan is now the “god of this age”
(2 Corinthians 4:4), it belongs to him only because
Almighty God has granted it to Him (Luke 4:6).

Exactly. Jesus Christ is the heir of all things, but not yet the inheritor.

Semper-Fi · May 20, 2020

Josheb said:
In other words, when Shiloh comes the scepter will depart. That is what the text states, not what I made it say, not what I have

interpreted to say in deference to what it
actually, factually, objectively observably, undeniably irrefutable states.

No it says the septer will not depart from Judah
until Christ comes, then He is given the Scepter
of David, not that the Scepter departs anywhere.

From the Throne of David, He will then
rule the worlds nations with a rod of iron.
Revelation 12:5, 19:15, 2:27

Semper-Fi · May 20, 2020

"When did Shiloh come?" and
the answer is, "The first century!"

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth:
I came not to send peace, but a sword.

The second coming is in actuality
a continuation of the first.

Luk 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me,
because he hath anointed me to preach the
gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal
the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to
the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind,
to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Luk 4:19
To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Luk 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

He stoped reading just there, closed
the book, and sat down, why?

Isa 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

Isa 61:2
To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD,

And here is where He stopped reading in mid sentence. Now the passage He quoted continues...

and [the day of vengeance] of our God;
to comfort all that mourn;

Isa 61:3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD,that he might be glorified.

Isa 61:4 And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.

Isa 61:5 And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.

Isa 61:6 But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.

Isa 61:7 For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them.

He came the first time to complete Isa 61:1-2
but not all of verse 2. When He returns, after the
day of vengeance, He will complete verse 2 and
forward through verse 7.

When He returns- Genesis 49:12 His eyes shall
be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk"

Semper-Fi · May 20, 2020

Josheb said:
This op is about the covenant with David, not the covenant
with Jacob.

But they over lap.

Davids covenant with God covers the
scepter promise over the descendants of
Jacob. They [Jacobs descendants] will dwell
in the land that God given unto Jacob.

Ezekiel 37

24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments,

and observe my statutes, and do them.

25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell

therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David
shall be their prince for ever.

26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.

27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea,
I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

28 And the heathen shall know that I the Lord
do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall bein
the midst of them for evermore.

Josheb · May 20, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
Acts 2:29-33 has nothing to do with the op's question.

Fail.

Josheb · May 20, 2020

Semper-Fi said:
Hebrews 2:8 But "we see not yet all things put under him."

1 Corinthians 15:27-28 (KJV)
For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

I have already covered this terrain. If you haven't read my posts please do so now so I don't have to repeat already-posted content and you're not unnecessarily posting content already addressed.

Hebrews 2:8
"You have put all things in subjection under his feet." For in subjecting all things to him, He left nothing that is not subject to him. But now we do not yet see all things subjected to him."

You choose to emphasize the "not yet" over what is already. Why?

All things are subject to him but we don't see it. Why read anything other than what is written into what is written? The answer? Because your hermeneutic tells you to do so! There's nothing exegetical about what you've just done; it was entirely eisegetic, not exegetic. 1Corinthians 15:27-28 should be read through Psalm 110:1, not Darbyism. There's nothing in the 1 Corinthians text about Jesus sitting on a man-made earthly throne in the earthly city of Jerusalem in an earthly geo-political nation-state whose only resemblance to the Biblical iteration is its name. What do you normally think when someone says, "All things are under his control... when all things are subdued then...."?

This post to which I now reply proves my position: Jesus is now enthroned and he will remain enthroned until all his enemies are defeated, at which time every knee will bow and confess him as Lord to his Father's glory.

All will confess him as Lord. Not all will confess him as both Lord and Savior (Phil. 2:7).

Psalm 110:1
"The LORD says to my Lord: 'Sit at My right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.'"

Jesus stays enthroned where he's at until his enemies are defeated. He does not leave his throne to defeat them. He does not leave on throne and sit on another in order to defeat them. He doesn't leave one throne, sit on another, and then return to the first throne. He sits enthroned until his Father makes his enemies a footstool.

Semper-Fi · May 20, 2020

Josheb said:
Jesus stays enthroned where he's at until his enemies are defeated. He does not leave his throne to defeat them.

That is not what 2 Thessalonians 2:8 says

"And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Josheb · May 20, 2020

Semper-Fi said:
No it says the septer will not depart from Judah
until Christ comes, then He is given the Scepter of David, not that the Scepter departs anywhere.

From the Throne of David, He will then rule the worlds nations with a rod of iron.
Revelation 12:5, 19:15, 2:27

Semper-Fi said:
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth:
I came not to send peace, but a sword..............

Semper-Fi said:
But they over lap............

All of this content has all already been addressed. You just wasted three posts and all the time, enrgy, and cyberspace it took you to post it to post content already addressed in previous posts. Nothing was added to this discussion. Please read through my posts and think about what the scriptures state, not what they can be made to say.

Add something new to the conversation.

This op asks about the eternal throne of David and his descendant. Acts 2 answers that question. When God was speaking to David about the endless reign of his descendant He was speaking about the resurrection. That is what the text states. That is how the New Testament interprets the Old Testament oath. I didn't interpret anything. God, through Peter, unveiled His own words to David.

Why do you not believe what is actually factually plainly stated? Why feel the need to read something more into the text, things nowhere stated, nowhere implied, nowhere remotely inferred or insinuated? Why not read it as written plainly read?

Please do not post content already covered.

Semper-Fi · May 20, 2020

Josheb said:
I have already covered this terrain.

Please show us in thread where you explained
Hebrews 2:8, and 1 Corinthians 15:27-28

or Ezekiel 37 to name a few

Josheb · May 20, 2020

Semper-Fi said:
That is not what 2 Thessalonians 2:8 says

"And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

I didn't say it was 2 Thes. I said that point was covered by Psalm 110. I even quoted the verse. There's no excuse for missing that. Please don't misrepresent what was posted again.

Josheb · May 20, 2020

Semper-Fi said:
Please show us in thread where you explained
Hebrews 2:8, and 1 Corinthians 15:27-28 or Ezekiel 37 to name a few

Please do your own homework. If you haven't read the thread then you have no business posting as if you know what's been said. You're wasting more time.... others' time.

Semper-Fi · May 20, 2020

Josheb said:
You choose to emphasize the "not yet"
over what is already. Why?

Because That is what scripture states,
and your view conflicts with scriptures.

Semper-Fi · May 20, 2020

Josheb said:
Please do your own homework. If you haven't read the thread then you have no business posting as if you know what's been said. You're wasting more time.... others' time.

I read the thread, I can not find it. Can you show us where you explained those verses I mentioned ?

Semper-Fi · May 20, 2020

Josheb said:
I didn't say it was 2 Thes. I said that point was covered by Psalm 110. I even quoted the verse. There's no excuse for missing that. Please don't misrepresent what was posted again.

You said Christ does not leave his throne
to defeat anyone, that is false.

I posted 2 Thessalonians 2:8 because it says
He shall destroy with the brightness of his coming

Semper-Fi · May 20, 2020

Josheb said:
There's nothing in the 1 Corinthians text about Jesus sitting on a man-made earthly throne in the earthly city of Jerusalem in an earthly geo-political nation-state whose only resemblance to the Biblical iteration is its name.

I never said it did. What 1 Corinthians 15:27-28
shows is that not everything is put under Christ yet.

You are stuck on Acts 2 which says Christ is on the right hand of God the Fathers Throne over the universe. Other verses talk about [When] He [Christ] takes over King Davids Throne.

For precept must be upon precept, precept
upon precept; line upon line, line upon line;

2 Timothy 3:16, Isaiah 28:10 We are to
take all scripture into consideration.

"here a little, and there a little:"

We have to look at other scripture on subject.
Jesus Christ promised, “I will come again”

Lets look at Matthew 25:31-32

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory,
and all the holy angels with him, then shall he
sit upon the throne of his glory:

And before him shall be gathered all nations:
and he shall separate them one from another,
as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

The verse above says when Christ returns,
Then [not before] He will sit on [His Throne].

Soon "The kingdoms of this world are to become
the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ;..

17At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne
of the Lord; and all the nations shall be gathered
unto it, to the name of the Lord, to Jerusalem:
neither shall they walk any more after the
imagination of their evil heart.

The Eternal has chosen Jerusalem. 1 Kings 11:13
And the Lord shall inherit Judah his portion in the
holy land, and shall yet choose Jerusalem again.
Zechariah 1:17, Zechariah 2:12

11 And many nations shall be joined to the Lord in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the Lord of hosts hath sent me unto thee.

King David, will be king, under Moses, over
all twelve nations of Israel (Jeremiah 30:9;
Ezekiel 34:23-24; Ezekiel 37:24-25).

The original twelve apostles will be kings, under
David, over one of these nations Matthew 19:28

"It was round about eighteen thousand
measures: and the name of the city from that
day shall be, The Lord is there. (Ezekiel 48:35)

The bible says there will be a third temple,
but not made by mans hands.

Zechariah 12 :8 In that day shall the Lord
defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem;

Isaiah 14 :1 For the Lord will have mercy
on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel..."

The future temple will have water flowing
out of the altar (Ezekiel 47:1-5).

God’s truth will fill the entire world like the ocean
beds are filled with water Isaiah 11:9; Hab 2:14
-

How will Christ deal with those nations that refuse
to come to Jerusalem to worship God the way
He commands? Zechariah 14:16-19.

Isaiah 17
7 In that day a man will look to his Maker, And his
eyes will have respect for the Holy One of Israel.
And the Lord shall be King over all the earth.

In that day it shall be— “The Lord is one,”
And His name one.

It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy
all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

In that day there will be an altar to the Lord in
the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar to
the Lord at its border.

In that day Israel will be one of three with Egypt
and Assyria—a blessing in the midst of the land"

OldWiseGuy · May 20, 2020

Josheb said:
Fail.

Please discuss your interpretation with your pastor. You have a serious misunderstanding of (and obsession with) Acts 2:29-33.

Josheb · May 21, 2020

Semper-Fi said:
Because That is what scripture states,
and your view conflicts with scriptures.

It's not what scripture states. It is what you made it say; it's what you are reading into the text. Scripture tells us what happens in the interim between what is now already existing and what will yet happen: he will be seated on his Father's throne until his Father makes his enemies a footstool.

That is what the scripture states.

Josheb · May 21, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
Please discuss your interpretation with your pastor. You have a serious misunderstanding of (and obsession with) Acts 2:29-33.

Cop out. I'm discussing it with you.

And don't misrepresent what I've posted. I didn't "interpret" anything. You did. You do please discuss your interpretation with a non-dispensational pastor. Are you dispensationalist, Semper?

Did God ever revoke his covenant with David tentatively?

Wake me when it's soup.

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