God's Word is LAW

HARK! said:

The answer is clear in 1 John:

(CLV) 1Jn 3:4
Everyone who is doing sin is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.

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The problem lies with what you believe is sin. It was a sin for the people of Israel to disobey any law that God imposed upon them. Those laws didn't apply to the gentiles unless they decided to become circumcised and join with the Israelites. They do not apply to Christians either. In fact, they do not apply to anyone since the Cross. The World is under a new and better covenant and we are led by the Spirit not letters written in stone and God's dictation to Moses.

Apparently you did not read the verses from 1Jn that I pasted in my last post. John explains what our commands are.

Jerryhuerta said:

The schoolmaster is obvious the Mosaic Covenant but the "law" predated it, which is clearly revealed when Paul wrote,

Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions... (Galatians 3:19)​

No doubt Paul's use of the term nomos pertains to the Mosaic Covenant in this context because it came 430 years after Abraham (verse 17), but in order for it to be added because of transgressions, one has to acknowledge that the law predated the Mosaic Covenant, which doesn't bode well for antinomianism. And of course antinomianism butts up against the New Covenant's promise that God writes His law in the inwards of His people.

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Thanks for your comments. As your know, in Gal 3:19 When Paul said the law was added because of transgression; He was saying that the law was added to'the promise'. (Abrahamic Covenant) He also said "it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator."
So, if you find out who that mediator is, you can solve when the law was given.
I don't think Jesus was guessing when He asked: "Didn't Moses give you the law?"
John's gospel writes: The Law came by Moses.

The laws God writes on the hearts is (most likely)personal to each heart. We should know that it wont be according to the one given at Sinai.

Cribstyl said:

Is that how we do it now?

Which law is Paul talking about in Gal 3 that would serve until the seed should come?

Gal 3:19¶ Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

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The law of Moses was added to the Abrahamic Covenant, until the Seed should come.


The Abrahamic became what is called the New (refreshed or renewed) covenant.


The same Lord who made covenant with Abraham and his descendants, became flesh, and thereby confirmed the covenant with His blood.



Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.
Galatians 3:7



JLB

Bob S said:

Those laws didn't apply to the gentiles unless they decided to become circumcised and join with the Israelites.

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Amen.



JLB

Bob S said:

The problem lies with what you believe is sin. It was a sin for the people of Israel to disobey any law that God imposed upon them. Those laws didn't apply to the gentiles unless they decided to become circumcised and join with the Israelites. They do not apply to Christians either. In fact, they do not apply to anyone since the Cross. The World is under a new and better covenant and we are led by the Spirit not letters written in stone and God's dictation to Moses.

Apparently you did not read the verses from 1Jn that I pasted in my last post. John explains what our commands are.

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Of course it’s a sin to violate His Commandments.

However, the laws contained I n ordinances that were added to the Abrahamic Covenant, such as feast days, Sabbaths, food laws new moons, ceremonial washings... have been taken out of the way.


The laws that govern love, such as we see in the commandments, having to with loving our neighbor and loving God, are eternal kingdom laws that govern our lives, and were kept long before Moses was born.


because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws. Genesis 26:5



For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3


His Commandments are the framework of defining love.


IOW, it would be foolish to believe that if I were to steal from my brother, that I’m loving him.


Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Romans 13:8-10


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4



Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15




JLB

JLB777 said:

Of course it’s a sin to violate His Commandments.

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Amen! The question is what are the commands we as Christians are to obey. Morality has been and will be forever.

However, the laws contained I n ordinances that were added to the Abrahamic Covenant, such as feast days, Sabbaths, food laws new moons, ceremonial washings... have been taken out of the way.

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The covenant God gave to Israel had a sad ending. God in His mercy gave the World Jesus who gave the World a new and better covenant to live by.


The laws that govern love, such as we see in the commandments, having to with loving our neighbor and loving God, are eternal kingdom laws that govern our lives, and were kept long before Moses was born.
I presume you mean ten commandments. Let's take a look at the ten and see if what you said is true. You said the ten have to do with love to God and our neighbor. I disagree with your statement. Take a good look at all ten of them. There is nothing about love in any of them. God cannot and did not command love. Love has to come from a willing heart. Those commands were about duty, Thou shalt nots for most of them. Penalties for not honoring parents. The Sabbath command dictated what was not to be done on a day. The love commands are found in the other 603 commands Moses received from God.

because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws. Genesis 26:5

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Apparently in the commandments, statutes and laws there was not anything about adultery or concubines, so Abraham was given something different than the Sinai covenant which some on the forum believe Abraham had.

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3

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In John 15 Jesus tells us what are His commands. He tell us He kept His Father's commands and we know those commands to be the commands found in the Sinai covenant. He doesn't tell us to keep those commands, He tells us to keep His commands. John, of course knew this so when he wrote 1Jn 5:3 we know he was not referring to the ten commandments. He was referring to 1Jn 3: 19-24.

His Commandments are the framework of defining love.

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Nine commands do not constitute the framework of love. They are a good start.

IOW, it would be foolish to believe that if I were to steal from my brother, that I’m loving him.

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Exactly

Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Romans 13:8-10

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Beautiful verses. True Christianity is all about love.

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

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I hope you are not referring to the ten because the ceremonial Sabbath is contained in the ten. Paul tells us that the ten commandments have been done away. 2Cor 3:7-11 KJV.

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

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Murder is not loving the one that is murdered. That comes under the Royal Law of Love.

Bob S said:

Amen! The question is what are the commands we as Christians are to obey. Morality has been and will be forever.

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His Spirit is within each believer to reveal these things to each of us, to teach and instruct us in the ways of righteousness.


Paul said it this way —


And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in knowledge and all discernment, that you may approve the things that are excellent, that you may be sincere and without offense till the day of Christ, Philippians 1:9-10


The Lord desires each of us to learn the way of love, which is the way of obedience, directly from Him, the way He desired Adam and Eve to learn, as it were; from the tree of Life.


Yes, the scriptures do teach us, and instruct us, in the way of righteousness, however without hearing His word directly from Him, there is no life, no faith, no grace imparted to do the instructions we learn to do.



This is how Abraham learned and lived the life of faith, by walking before Him, in His presence, not by reading His commandments on tablets of stone or from a book.



Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws. Genesis 26:5



Jesus said it this way —


You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. John 5:39-40




JLB

Bob S said:

The covenant God gave to Israel had a sad ending. God in His mercy gave the World Jesus who gave the World a new and better covenant to live by.


The laws that govern love, such as we see in the commandments, having to with loving our neighbor and loving God, are eternal kingdom laws that govern our lives, and were kept long before Moses was born.
I presume you mean ten commandments. Let's take a look at the ten and see if what you said is true. You said the ten have to do with love to God and our neighbor. I disagree with your statement. Take a good look at all ten of them. There is nothing about love in any of them. God cannot and did not command love. Love has to come from a willing heart. Those commands were about duty, Thou shalt nots for most of them. Penalties for not honoring parents. The Sabbath command dictated what was not to be done on a day. The love commands are found in the other 603 commands Moses received from God.

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The covenant that was given at Sinai, was added to the Abrahamic Covenant, until the Seed should come.


We are grafted into the Abrahamic Covenant in Christ, who originally made this covenant with Abraham before He became flesh and now calls it the New Covenant, which means “renewed” covenant.



And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect.
Galatians 3:17




JLB

HARK! said:

YHWH never required anyone to keep his Torah. He gave us all freewill; but Yahshua was commissioned only for Israel; and YHWH's covenant is with Israel.

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That simply is not true Hark. Israel accepted the pact. Once they did that they were obligated to do everything the pact asked.

HARK! said:

YHWH never required anyone to keep his Torah. He gave us all freewill; but Yahshua was commissioned only for Israel; and YHWH's covenant is with Israel.

(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, [Yahshua] answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

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So you believe the New Covenant is only for Jews?



JLB

BobRyan said:

What does the text say?

Jer 31
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Romans 2
25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

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Which one of these requirements of the law is the Church required to keep today under the New Covenant?


Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.’ ” So they laid it up till morning, as Moses commanded; and it did not stink, nor were there any worms in it. Then Moses said, “Eat that today, for today is a Sabbath to the Lord; today you will not find it in the field. Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none.”
Now it happened that some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather, but they found none. And the Lord said to Moses, “How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws? See! For the Lord has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you on the sixth day bread for two days. Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.” So the people rested on the seventh day. Exodus 16:23-30





And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exodus 31:12-15




Then Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said to them, “These are the words which the Lord has commanded you to do: Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh day shall be a holy day for you, a Sabbath of rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death. You shall kindle no fire throughout your dwellings on the Sabbath day.”Exodus 35:1-3



Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.
Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died. Numbers 15:32-36



‘And on the Sabbath day two lambs in their first year, without blemish, and two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour as a grain offering, mixed with oil, with its drink offering— this is the burnt offering for every Sabbath, besides the regular burnt offering with its drink offering. Numbers 28:9-10




JLB

BobRyan said:

The ones in the Ten Commandments are included in the Jer 31:31-33

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“Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. Jeremiah 31:31-33


I don’t see any of the Ten Commandments listed in these verses.


Here is an example:


“You have heard that it was said to those of old, You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire. Matthew 5:21-22



Is the commandment to not be angry with your brother without a cause listed in the 10 Commandments?


Is the commandment to not call your brother a fool listed in the 10 Commandments?


How about forgiveness, is that listed in the 10 Commandments?


How about hating your brother?



Why do you believe their are only 10 Commandments?



Do you follow the law of Moses or the law of Christ?



JLB

BobRyan said:

You see the "Law of God" known to Jeremiah and his readers... and all Bible scholars admit they knew about the TEN - the Words spoken directly to Israel at Sinai.

exegesis matters.

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Did the Chinese, Japanese, Aborigenes, American Indians and all of Africa know the ten commandments?

Even if all the Bible scholars knew about the ten the ten certainly didn't keep them from worshipping on Sunday. Also, there is absolutely nothing to tell us that weekly cycle is the same as Jesus kept. If keeping Sabbath is so important that it will keep those who do not keep it from eternal life certainly God would have made the day different in some way to distinguish it from the other six days. Would our gracious God want to see his creation go to Hell for not keeping a ritual day given only to one nation? Your so called prophet wrote that it would.
"It means eternal salvation to keep the Sabbath holy unto the Lord. God says: "Them that honor Me I will honor." (6T 356.4)