Was the Sabbath given to man at creation as a special day to worship God?

Bob S said:

God does not have to prove to anyone that He is just.

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This is so true. As Paul said :Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind".

BobRyan said:

Because as scholars on both sides of the Sabbath debate agree - the TEN are included in the moral law of God written on the heart under the NEW Covenant of Jer 31:31-34... so then it is "still sin" to "take God's name in vain". (an answer to that same question you have seen from me at least a dozen times)

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The point is, the law of Moses required the children of Israel to specifically observe the Sabbath a certain way.

As I have pointed out a dozen times or more.

Example;

Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.’ ” So they laid it up till morning, as Moses commanded; and it did not stink, nor were there any worms in it. Then Moses said, “Eat that today, for today is a Sabbath to the Lord; today you will not find it in the field. Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none.”
Now it happened that some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather, but they found none. And the Lord said to Moses, “How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws? See! For the Lord has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you on the sixth day bread for two days. Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.” So the people rested on the seventh day. Exodus 16:23-30





And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exodus 31:12-15




Then Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said to them, “These are the words which the Lord has commanded you to do: Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh day shall be a holy day for you, a Sabbath of rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death. You shall kindle no fire throughout your dwellings on the Sabbath day.”Exodus 35:1-3



Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.
Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died. Numbers 15:32-36



‘And on the Sabbath day two lambs in their first year, without blemish, and two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour as a grain offering, mixed with oil, with its drink offering— this is the burnt offering for every Sabbath, besides the regular burnt offering with its drink offering. Numbers 28:9-10



Do you believe the Church is to observe these Sabbath requirements today, under the New Covenant?





Is keeping feast days written on our heart?
Is eating kosher written on our heart?



The New Testament writers have included what is sin, in the writings of the New Testament.


Paul who taught unlearned Gentiles, who never studied the Old Testament taught them about sin, which he referred to as practicing the works of the flesh.


Please refer to the New Testament when pointing out what is sin.


Please show us from the New Testament where Jesus or Paul specifically commanded the Church to observe the Sabbath the way the law of Moses commanded, as the above examples I gave required?




JLB

Studyman said:

506

I said;

"I do not believe cutting some flesh off my penis will save me as the examples written for my admonition clearly show. The Israelite's were physically circumcised and yet this didn't keep them from falling in the wilderness."

You said;

"Why not. It was commanded by God."

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Yes I said why not it was commanded by God.


I didn’t say, what you claimed I said which was...

No, but you claimed God's Law commands that I must cut skin off my penis before He will forgive me of my Sins.

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It was commanded by God under the law of Moses.


It’s not commanded today.


The answer to my question should have been —


Because the law of Moses has been abolished in His flesh, having been nailed to the cross and taken out of the way, because it became obsolete.


I never said you must become physically circumcised for God to forgive your sins.






JLB

JLB777 said:

The point is, the law of Moses required the children of Israel to specifically observe the Sabbath a certain way.

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Indeed.

Lev 23:2-3 a day of "holy convocation"
Ex 20:8-11 a day of rest from secular labor
Isaiah 58:12 a day to avoid secular talk and activity
Isaiah 66:23 a day for all mankind to come before God and worship "from Sabbath to Sabbath" for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth

Bible details that Bible scholars on both sides of the Sabbath debate admit to --
Where --
1. The Moral laws of God include the TEN Commandments where the "first commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment
2. Laws regarding animal sacrifice end at the cross - Heb 10:4-12
3. Laws regarding civil laws end with the end of that theocracy.

BobRyan said:

Indeed.

Lev 23:2-3 a day of "holy convocation"
Ex 20:8-11 a day of rest from secular labor
Isaiah 58:12 a day to avoid secular talk and activity
Isaiah 66:23 a day for all mankind to come before God and worship "from Sabbath to Sabbath" for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth

Bible details that Bible scholars on both sides of the Sabbath debate admit to --
Where --
1. The Moral laws of God include the TEN Commandments where the "first commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment
2. Laws regarding animal sacrifice end at the cross - Heb 10:4-12
3. Laws regarding civil laws end with the end of that theocracy.

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Please provide scripture from Jesus or His apostles that says....


The Church is to observe the Sabbath the way the law of Moses required?




JLB

JLB777 said:

The point is, the law of Moses required the children of Israel to specifically observe the Sabbath a certain way.

Click to expand...

Indeed.

Lev 23:2-3 a day of "holy convocation"
Ex 20:8-11 a day of rest from secular labor
Isaiah 58:12 a day to avoid secular talk and activity
Isaiah 66:23 a day for all mankind to come before God and worship "from Sabbath to Sabbath" for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth

Bible details that Bible scholars on both sides of the Sabbath debate admit to --
Where --
1. The Moral laws of God include the TEN Commandments where the "first commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment
2. Laws regarding animal sacrifice end at the cross - Heb 10:4-12
3. Laws regarding civil laws end with the end of that theocracy.

JLB777 said:

Please provide scripture from Jesus or His apostles that says....

The Church is to observe the Sabbath the way the law of Moses required?

JLB

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It's right next to the text where Jesus and His apostles say "the church should not take God's name in vain"

There is no "delete whatever scripture is not repeated by Jesus or his apostles" in the actual Bible... hence it is "still a sin" to take God's name in vain.

JLB777 said:

So which is it, Bob?
Are you following the law of Moses or the law of Christ?

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Step 1. .. read this post if you want my answer.

BobRyan said:

Indeed.

Lev 23:2-3 a day of "holy convocation"
Ex 20:8-11 a day of rest from secular labor
Isaiah 58:12 a day to avoid secular talk and activity
Isaiah 66:23 a day for all mankind to come before God and worship "from Sabbath to Sabbath" for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth

Bible details that Bible scholars on both sides of the Sabbath debate admit to --
Where --
1. The Moral laws of God include the TEN Commandments where the "first commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment
2. Laws regarding animal sacrifice end at the cross - Heb 10:4-12
3. Laws regarding civil laws end with the end of that theocracy.




It's right next to the text where Jesus and His apostles say "the church should not take God's name in vain"

There is no "delete whatever scripture is not repeated by Jesus or his apostles" in the actual Bible... hence it is "still a sin" to take God's name in vain.

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So which is it, Bob?


Are you following the law of Moses or the law of Christ?


You have yet to provide any scriptures from Christ or His Apostles that command the Church to observe the Sabbath the way the law of Moses required.




JLB

see #546

If Jesus said it's okay to do certain things on the Sabbath, and the Pharisees disagreed with him, guess who was right?

"The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.” That's what the Lord said, so that is good enough for me.

pescador said:

If Jesus said it's okay to do certain things on the Sabbath, and the Pharisees disagreed with him, guess who was right?

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Jesus -- He gave the Law... It is "His commandments" according to Hebrews 8:6-12 .. He knew what it said and meant.

"The Sabbath was made for mankind, not mankind for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.” That's what the Lord said, so that is good enough for me. It speaks of the "making" of both as we see in Genesis 1-2

pescador said:

If Jesus said it's okay to do certain things on the Sabbath, and the Pharisees disagreed with him, guess who was right?

"The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.” That's what the Lord said, so that is good enough for me.

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There’s a difference between doing good on the sabbath, and not keeping the sabbath. Just saying.

Christ didn’t teach you to not keep the sabbath holy.

he said it is lawful to do good on the sabbath, not that is it is lawful to not keep the sabbath holy.

BobRyan said:

Jesus -- He gave the Law... It is "His commandments" according to Hebrews 8:6-12 .. He knew what it said and meant.

"The Sabbath was made for mankind, not mankind for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.” That's what the Lord said, so that is good enough for me. It speaks of the "making" of both as we see in Genesis 1-2

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The Lord’s day is the first day of the week; The day He was resurrected.


What commandment are you referring to?


One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
Romans 14:5


What sense does it make to cause people to work on the Sabbath.

Pastors and Teachers who work in the full time ministry, together with support staff, should rest on the Sabbath, not work.


The early Church would gather on the Lord’s day, the first day of the week.


Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given orders to the churches of Galatia, so you must do also: On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come.
1 Corinthians 16:1-2


Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight.
Acts 20:7





JLB

HARK! said:

This verse is about arguments over which days should be days of fasting. YHWH gave no such commandment.

How is this relevant?

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One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. Romans 14:5


“Esteems” one day above another.



Is the Sabbath a day you esteem above another day?



JLB

JLB777 said:

One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. Romans 14:5


“Esteems” one day above another.



Is the Sabbath a day you esteem above another day?



JLB

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Wasn’t it God that set the 7th day apart, and made it holy from all the other days, and not man?

JLB777 said:

The early Church would gather on the Lord’s day, the first day of the week.


Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given orders to the churches of Galatia, so you must do also: On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come.
1 Corinthians 16:1-2


Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight.
Acts 20:7

JLB

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That is true, but the 1st day is not the Sabbath, the 7th day is. Also, you can't do business (money collection) on Shabbat so of course it was done AFTER Shabbat. In the Acts quote, it was AFTER the Sabbath, AFTER sunset.

JLB777 said:

One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. Romans 14:5

“Esteems” one day above another.

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In Ex 20:8-11 we see that God does not "esteem every day alike".

In Gal 4 God condemns even one observance of a pagan holy day - as follows
8 However at that time, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are no gods. 9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.

The days fo Rom 14 are the annual God-approved holy days of Lev 23 where "one man observes one day above another while another man observes them all"

JLB777 said:

The Lord’s day is the first day of the week;

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So is that one of your traditions or do you have a Bible text for it??

Dkh587 said:

Wasn’t it God that set the 7th day apart, and made it holy from all the other days, and not man?

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Let’s look.


Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. Genesis 2:1-3

• God blessed the seventh day.
• God sanctified the seventh day.

And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.


Has the seventh day come in which God is no longer working?

• My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.”

But Jesus answered them, “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.”
Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God. John 5:17-18



JLB