Can a Christian have a premature death is he keeps living in lawlessness

Junia

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2020
2,795
1,387
42
Bristol
✟31,159.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Enemy cant do anything outside Gods will. We need to trust in Jesus for our justification. Our salvation is his, he bought us. If it was for me I would lose it the same day. I cant even keep my house keys save.

me too
 
Upvote 0

Junia

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2020
2,795
1,387
42
Bristol
✟31,159.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Some in the Bible had their years on earth extended.
Probably wrong but,
12 years added comes to mind?

Can God knock a few or more off?

He can do anything He wishes.

M

He could.

i think it was Hezekiah who asked for more years and was granted them

so maybe He could take years off. am tryign to think of an example though. only thng comes to mind is the 5th commandment. children honour their parents and they are promised a long life?
 
Upvote 0

com7fy8

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2013
13,649
6,108
Massachusetts
✟583,329.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
When I get my new spiritual body I will, for now I fight along side the holy ghost my own wickedness.
Hebrews 12:4-14 guarantees how God corrects every child of God.

"But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons." (Hebrews 12:8)

So, I would offer this goes for every child of God, not only ones with Jewish background. So, in case we are having problems with sin, and struggling, we need to actively seek God our Heavenly Father for how He is able to succeed in correcting us.

No hay nada problema demasiado grande por Dios.

Nevertheless, I dont feel people who think they need works plus faith will be cast out to hell. Most of them are fearful that they will be cast out of bad behaviour, but they already know without Jesus their works are meaningless.
But in case they are wrong, they can be having problems; and God is able to deeply correct us, so we don't spend our lives feeling as though we could fail and go to hell. Our Father's correction changes our character so we do better . . . in how His love has us living >

"Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17)

«En esto se ha perfeccionado el amor en nosotros, para que tengamos confianza en el día del juicio; pues como él es, así somos nosotros en este mundo.»

So, I would warn someone not to accept that they could fail for the rest of their lives or at the end of their lives. But, instead, trust how God is able to truly correct us. And this can not fail, if He does real correction in us so we become like Jesus.
God doesnt lose any believer.
I do believe this is a guarantee of salvation, but also we have the guarantee how God will correct us so we become like Jesus > Romans 8:29. So, I do not accept that Jesus saves a person, then does not finish what He has started.

"But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him." (1 Corinthians 6:17)

If we have given ourselves to Jesus, now each of us is "joined" to Jesus in an almighty union. And God wins in this union!!! He changes our character so we become obedient and loving like Jesus. He does not leave us the way we were in sin with Satan. But we have been changed "from the power of Satan to God" (in Acts 26:18).

So, I do not think it is wise to consider other possibilities will happen if we have trusted in Christ (Ephesians 1:12).

Because we could be helping someone to accept and excuse failure and not spend eternity with Jesus. God is able to succeed; our success depends on God; so we do not have to accept less than all He is able to do with us.

Nevertheless fellowship was never promise with faith only.
"faith working through love" (in Galatians 5:6)

And "Love never fails," we have in 1 Corinthians 13:8.

So, I would not accept the possibility that a person who trusts in Jesus will then fail. In "faith working through love," by the way, you will have fellowship with God . . . in His own love >

"Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us." (Romans 5:5)

God's love "in our hearts" changes our hearts to be like Jesus.

So, I do not think it is wise to accept any other possibility. But if a person is failing . . . pray with hope for the person, not being ready to accept failure, because God does not fail in us who have trusted in Jesus.
 
Upvote 0

Mountainmanbob

Goat Whisperer
Supporter
Sep 6, 2016
15,961
10,817
73
92040
✟1,096,353.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
He could.

i think it was Hezekiah who asked for more years and was granted them

so maybe He could take years off. am tryign to think of an example though. only thng comes to mind is the 5th commandment. children honour their parents and they are promised a long life?

How about the two that lied about and hid their money. Greatly shortened.
M
 
Upvote 0

Oldmantook

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2017
3,633
1,526
64
USA
✟99,173.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Easy.
The tribulation is the first 5 seals. Not the vials and trumpets. Those are the wrath of God.
God promised us tribulation, He also promised to spare us from His wrath. The tribulations, great tribulation, and wrath of God are separate things. The tribulations and great tribulation are caused by the antichrist. The wrath of God is caused by God.
The Great Tribulation is signified by the 5th seal, that's when you suddenly have the souls of saints who were killed appearing in Heaven crying out for vengeance

from Revelation 6

Note that before this, was the 5th seal, or the Great Tribulation

from Matthew 24


So, Revelation is referring to this event in Matthew 24
Luke 21 gives a different perspective


Now compare Matthew 24 to 1 Thessalonians 4, and you'll see that all 3 (well 4 really with Luke) are talking about the same event. Jesus coming in the clouds and the dead in Christ rising up and those who are still alive being caught up to meet Him in the clouds, where we get the term "rapture" from.

from Matthew 24


from 1 Thessalonians 4


Just to tie it all up too note in that Matthew 24:30, the mourning of the tribes of the earth..
Revelation 6


All the same event, the 2nd Coming of Christ, happening with the rapture, but before the 7 trumpets and 7 vials of God's wrath.
You have to understand the difference between tribulation and God's wrath, or it'll never make sense and you'll have to Tarrantino the order of events to have any consistency.
Your choice to ignore Jesus' own words. Nuff said.
 
Upvote 0

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
7,369
2,301
43
Helena
✟203,882.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Your choice to ignore Jesus' own words. Nuff said.
No, your choice listens to one turn of phrase from Jesus and ignoring virtually everything else, 2 phrases actually. "The hour" and "like a thief in the night" while completely ignoring everything else where Jesus tells His disciples there are signs to look for.
If it was truly going to be "like a thief in the night" for believers who are watching and waiting, there'd be no signs to watch and wait for.

You have literally taken just about every use of the word "hour" in the bible and thrown it all into 1 singular 60 minute event in your mind, even when "the hour" and "the day" are used as turns of phrase rather than specific times. Even when they're describing different events.
 
Upvote 0

Oldmantook

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2017
3,633
1,526
64
USA
✟99,173.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
No, your choice listens to one turn of phrase from Jesus and ignoring virtually everything else, 2 phrases actually. "The hour" and "like a thief in the night" while completely ignoring everything else where Jesus tells His disciples there are signs to look for.
If it was truly going to be "like a thief in the night" for believers who are watching and waiting, there'd be no signs to watch and wait for.

You have literally taken just about every use of the word "hour" in the bible and thrown it all into 1 singular 60 minute event in your mind, even when "the hour" and "the day" are used as turns of phrase rather than specific times. Even when they're describing different events.
One phrase of Jesus beats all of your suppositions. Your choice to ignore him. Not all of the 10 Virgins were prepared were they? Back to drawing board for you.
 
Upvote 0

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
7,369
2,301
43
Helena
✟203,882.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
One phrase of Jesus beats all of your suppositions. Your choice to ignore him. Not all of the 10 Virgins were prepared were they? Back to drawing board for you.

One turn of phrase that is accompanied by other words of Jesus giving signs to look for. Why do you ignore that part?
 
Upvote 0

Oldmantook

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2017
3,633
1,526
64
USA
✟99,173.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
One turn of phrase that is accompanied by other words of Jesus giving signs to look for. Why do you ignore that part?
Were all the virgins prepared by watching and waiting for the signs? Please answer yes or no? That answers your claim that believers are vigilant - despite the signs that Jesus gave. Some believers, like the rest of the world will be unprepared like the 5 virgins. Some like the 5 virgins will become tired of watching and waiting for signs and not persevere and not overcome like we are instructed to do and lose their faith.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
7,369
2,301
43
Helena
✟203,882.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Were all the virgins prepared by watching and waiting for the signs? Please answer yes or no? That answers your claim that believers are vigilant - despite the signs that Jesus gave. Some believers, like the rest of the world will be unprepared like the 5 virgins. Some like the 5 virgins will become tired of watching and waiting for signs and not persevere and not overcome like we are instructed to do and lose their faith.
No, the foolish virgins weren't prepared. So yes, Jesus' return comes on them like a thief in the night.
But the wise virgins were prepared and were waiting, and so it wasn't on them like a thief.
For most of the world, the second coming will seem like it's out of nowhere, but for people who are watching and waiting and prepared, they'll anticipate it, that's what I keep trying to tell you. Jesus gave us what to look for so that it WOULDN'T overtake us like a thief in the night. Paul told is too.
So why are you expecting to be overtaken like a thief? Aren't you watching and waiting?
 
Upvote 0

Oldmantook

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2017
3,633
1,526
64
USA
✟99,173.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
No, the foolish virgins weren't prepared. So yes, Jesus' return comes on them like a thief in the night.
But the wise virgins were prepared and were waiting, and so it wasn't on them like a thief.
For most of the world, the second coming will seem like it's out of nowhere, but for people who are watching and waiting and prepared, they'll anticipate it, that's what I keep trying to tell you. Jesus gave us what to look for so that it WOULDN'T overtake us like a thief in the night. Paul told is too.
So why are you expecting to be overtaken like a thief? Aren't you watching and waiting?
Of course all believers are supposed to be watching/waiting but all will not as evidenced by those 5 virgins who didn't. They will be overtaken because they did not watch/wait when Jesus comes as a thief - which He stated will take place right before the battle of Armageddon - not prior to the trumpets and bowls as you claim.
 
Upvote 0

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
7,369
2,301
43
Helena
✟203,882.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Of course all believers are supposed to be watching/waiting but all will not as evidenced by those 5 virgins who didn't. They will be overtaken because they did not watch/wait when Jesus comes as a thief - which He stated will take place right before the battle of Armageddon - not prior to the trumpets and bowls as you claim.

That's not what Revelation states. Revelation states seals, events that correspond to the return of Jesus in the clouds/rapture, trumpets and vials, destruction of Babylon, Jesus coming on a white Horse for Armageddon, Millennium, Gog and Magog, then the Great White Throne of Judgement then eternity.
That's the order I see.
 
Upvote 0

Oldmantook

Well-Known Member
Jan 10, 2017
3,633
1,526
64
USA
✟99,173.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
That's not what Revelation states. Revelation states seals, events that correspond to the return of Jesus in the clouds/rapture, trumpets and vials, destruction of Babylon, Jesus coming on a white Horse for Armageddon, Millennium, Gog and Magog, then the Great White Throne of Judgement then eternity.
That's the order I see.
JESUS STATES he returns just before Armageddon per Rev 16:15-16. All Scripture must conform to what Jesus said. You like to conform what Jesus said to your timeline. I prefer Jesus' timeline.
 
Upvote 0

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
7,369
2,301
43
Helena
✟203,882.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
JESUS STATES he returns just before Armageddon per Rev 16:15-16. All Scripture must conform to what Jesus said. You like to conform what Jesus said to your timeline. I prefer Jesus' timeline.

If Jesus comes in the clouds, takes up His elect, they're in heaven while the 3 woes are going on, and then Jesus returns on a white horse before Armageddon... that's still Jesus returning, it's just Jesus returning in 2 events rather than one.

Jesus gave the timeline in Matthew 24
the events of Matthew 24 take place after the 6th seal in Revelation 6.
That is Jesus' timeline.
If you have a different one you need to come up with an explanation of why the events described in Matthew 24 are described in Revelation 6 after the 6th seal, and not in Revelation 19 when the battle of Armageddon takes place.
You'll have to explain why the 7th Seal immediately precedes the 7 trumpets (there is a space of half an hour of silence before it starts going down but the 7th seal is opened, and the angels are waiting)
Heck you'll have to explain why between the 6th and 7th seal, in Revelation 7, there's suddenly multitudes of people praising God and one of the ELDERS that was there in Heaven asks JOHN "who are these people?" and John told them that they were the people redeemed after enduring through the great tribulation.
Revelation 7 outright shows the Rapture takes place between the 6th and 7th seal, or God is doing a Quentin Tarantino on us, which would be utterly confusing for a book called "Revelation"
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Johan_1988

Active Member
Jun 17, 2019
321
176
36
Durban
✟30,451.00
Country
South Africa
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
No, my point is that you can learn from the epistles of James Peter and John, without thinking the instructions there are directed to you, just as how you respond towards Noah building the ark.

Ok by what standard do you judge that? The OT is obvious,eg. God commanded Moses or the children of Israel to do this and that. The difference is God did not command any word or law to the Jews to follow differently from the Gentiles. There might be specific prophecies concerning the Jews, but nothing concering doctrine.
 
Upvote 0

Guojing

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2019
11,773
1,309
sg
✟214,746.00
Country
Singapore
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Ok by what standard do you judge that? The OT is obvious,eg. God commanded Moses or the children of Israel to do this and that. The difference is God did not command any word or law to the Jews to follow differently from the Gentiles. There might be specific prophecies concerning the Jews, but nothing concering doctrine.

Take your salvation doctrine from Paul's epistles. God saved him and send him as our apostle.

The OT is for us to understand the history of God's relationship with Israel and is written for our learning. It does not mean everything that happens to them, under the gospel of the kingdom, is meant for us.

The most obvious application is signs and wonders.
 
Upvote 0

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
7,369
2,301
43
Helena
✟203,882.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Take your salvation doctrine from Paul's epistles. God saved him and send him as our apostle.

The OT is for us to understand the history of God's relationship with Israel and is written for our learning. It does not mean everything that happens to them, under the gospel of the kingdom, is meant for us.

The most obvious application is signs and wonders.

Here's why I don't follow dispensationalism
First off, salvation has always been through faith/grace, Romans 4 talked about that applying to Abraham, it's not like there was this dispensation where it was grace then it was the law now it's grace again and in the future it's gonna be faith + the law etc etc.
It's just always grace. Part of the point of the law is to show us we need God because we can't be righteous trying to obey the law. David was saved by faith, he certainly committed sins, if it was the law that was his salvation he'd be toast.
Secondly Paul, and many Israelites since, have become born again Christians. They're not under some different dispensation because of genetics.. any jew can hear the gospel and believe on Jesus Christ and be saved. I know at least one myself.
You are right that most of the old testament is for our admonishment to learn from other people's mistakes.
But that is still important, you can see the symbolism of Christ everywhere through the old testament, and sometimes you can just be inspired by things like the psalms of David, and you can connect with it, one moment praising the Lord and just thanking Him and saying He's his fortress and salvation.. next moment wallowing in despair just begging the Lord not to leave him and feeling forsaken and afflicted.

anyway, our salvation comes from as much from John and Peter and James as it does Paul, and it all really comes from Jesus.
 
Upvote 0

Guojing

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2019
11,773
1,309
sg
✟214,746.00
Country
Singapore
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Here's why I don't follow dispensationalism
First off, salvation has always been through faith/grace, Romans 4 talked about that applying to Abraham, it's not like there was this dispensation where it was grace then it was the law now it's grace again and in the future it's gonna be faith + the law etc etc.
It's just always grace. Part of the point of the law is to show us we need God because we can't be righteous trying to obey the law. David was saved by faith, he certainly committed sins, if it was the law that was his salvation he'd be toast.
Secondly Paul, and many Israelites since, have become born again Christians. They're not under some different dispensation because of genetics.. any jew can hear the gospel and believe on Jesus Christ and be saved. I know at least one myself.
You are right that most of the old testament is for our admonishment to learn from other people's mistakes.
But that is still important, you can see the symbolism of Christ everywhere through the old testament, and sometimes you can just be inspired by things like the psalms of David, and you can connect with it, one moment praising the Lord and just thanking Him and saying He's his fortress and salvation.. next moment wallowing in despair just begging the Lord not to leave him and feeling forsaken and afflicted.

anyway, our salvation comes from as much from John and Peter and James as it does Paul, and it all really comes from Jesus.

Well if you insist on still being under the gospel of the kingdom, that is your choice.

I prefer to be under the gospel that Paul preached. (Galatians 1:6)
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
7,369
2,301
43
Helena
✟203,882.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Well if you insist on still being under the gospel of the kingdom, that is your choice.

I prefer to be under the gospel that Paul preached. (Galatians 1:6)

Galatians 3:28-29
You want to segregate when Paul himself was desegregating.
 
Upvote 0