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No we don't. We know that we are saved by grace after all that we can do.They believe in a works based salvation.
Yes you do and there is nothing you can do.No we don't. We know that we are saved by grace after all that we can do.
How can a person call them selves a Christian if they are unwilling to keep the commandments?:FLDS stress obedience as much as LDS do. Life inside their compounds is harsh. Rachel's sister another of Warren Jeffs' daughters was living in South Dakota. Many have escaped which caused the leaders to heighten security. These places are like prisons.
Here's the less strict LDS version:
View attachment 277194
LDS Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, Entichment G,p. 395 (copyright 1981)
"A prophet needs to be more than a priest or a minister or an elder. His voice becomes the voice of God," said President Spencer W. Kimball (in Conference Report, Apr. 1970, p. 120).
LDS Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, Enrichment F, p. 389 (copyright 1981)
D&C 21:1-
1 Behold, there shall be a record kept among you; and in it thou shalt be called a seer, a translator, a prophet, an apostle of Jesus Christ, an elder of the church through the will of God the Father, and the grace of your Lord Jesus Christ,
2 Being inspired of the Holy Ghost to lay the foundation thereof, and to build it up unto the most holy faith.
3 Which church was organized and established in the year of your Lord eighteen hundred and thirty, in the fourth month, and on the sixth day of the month which is called April.
4 Wherefore, meaning the church, thou shalt give heed unto all his words and commandments which he shall give unto you as he receiveth them, walking in all holiness before me;
5 For his word ye shall receive, as if from mine own mouth, in all patience and faith.
Doctrine and Covenants 21
No we don't. We know that we are saved by grace after all that we can do.
The united order was also practiced in the Bible:Calling yourself something doesn't mean you have to obey a human who claims to speak for God. Calling yourself a Mormon doesn't mean you keep the commandments of Mormonism.
Quoting every single Bible verse about obedience, doesn't prove that you are holier than true Christians. Pretending that Christians don't love Christ doesn't prove that Mormons do. Teaching that you must pay tithe and give additional offerings, not drink wine, not smoke, "follow the prophet," attend multiple meetings, teach a class or be a ward clerk, home teach your few designated families, have family home evening on Mondays, sacrifice you time, money, and talents, etc.
FLDS have many similarities to CoJCoLDS. A HUGE emphasis on obedience is paramount. Temple marriage, Word of Wisdom, etc. are requirements.
Some members are deemed more worthy than others as in CoJCoLDS.
"He told followers that God ordered him to create a United Order of members most worthy of heaven. And, before the month was up, his brother Lyle was lining up members at the old elementary school and quizzing them about their lives and faith to determine who was, indeed, worthy. They were instructed to hand over everything they owned and told the church would provide for their earthly needs.
"The prophet -- and there is little doubt Warren Jeffs is still the FLDS prophet -- chooses who will be included in the United Order. His brothers, Lyle and Seth, serve as "bishops" and carry out the prophet's wishes at FLDS compounds along the Utah-Arizona border and in the Black Hills of South Dakota..."
"The cook, Allene Jeffs Steed, told the FBI last year that while she prepared feasts of lobster and shrimp for the bishop, her own children "lived off toast." She used duct tape to hold her kids' shoes together. And hers wasn't the only FLDS family to go without."
Banished FLDS followers expose their prophet's secrets - CNN
Joseph Smith even tried to implement the United Order (of Enoch).
Membership in the United Order was voluntary, although during a period in the 1830s, it was a requirement of continued church membership. Participants
would deed (consecrate) all their property to the United Order, which would in turn deed back an "inheritance" (or "stewardship") which allowed members to control the property; private property was not eradicated but was rather a fundamental principle of this system.[2] At the end of each year, any excess that the family produced from their stewardship was voluntarily given back to the Order. The Order in each community was operated by the local bishop.
United Order - Wikipedia
United Order
An organization through which the Saints in the early days of the restored Church sought to live the law of consecration. Individuals shared property, goods, and profits, receiving these things according to their wants and needs (D&C 51:3; 78:1–15; 104).
See also Consecrate, Law of Consecration
- In your temporal things you shall be equal, D&C 70:14.
- The Saints were to be organized to be equal in all things, D&C 78:3–11 (D&C 82:17–20).
- The Lord gave unto the united order a revelation and a commandment, D&C 92:1.
- John Johnson should become a member of the united order, D&C 96:6–9.
- The Lord gave general instructions for operating the united order, D&C 104.
- My people are not united according to the union required by the celestial kingdom, D&C 105:1–13.
That's a pretty reckless assertion and not based on fact. It shows either you lack understanding or you're lying for your religion. Which is it?The united order was also practiced in the Bible:
I posted the proof. Your unbelief goes against the Bible.That's a pretty reckless assertion and not based on fact. It shows either you lack understanding or you're lying for your religion. Which is it?
He is the way, said:
"...In the Bible there is a HUGE emphasis on obedience. I don't know if you noticed that even though it is so prevalent."
The Bible does not teach that a person's worth is based on obedience. Obedience comes from being transformed by Christ.
You said: "The Bible does not teach that a person's worth is based on obedience. Obedience comes from being transformed by Christ."
The Bible certainly does teach that God is pleased in a person who obeys Him:
(Old Testament | Job 1:1)
1 THERE was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
(Old Testament | Genesis 26:4 - 5)
4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
(New Testament | Matthew 3:17)
17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
You said: "Obedience comes from being transformed by Christ."Mormons always ignore the truths that Paul taught:
Our righteousness is imputed by Christ; Christ paid the price; He purchased us. He transforms us. He began the work and will complete it.
The Triune God does no wrong ever! The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit never disagee.
"Obedience comes from being transformed by Christ."
It is not about His LOVE for us, it is about our LOVE for Him and how we LOVE Him. We LOVE Him by keeping His commandments which He gave us:We love Him BECAUSE He FIRST loved us. We did not CAUSE Him to love us!