LDS Actually FLDS ---- the Polygamists in Texas

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FLDS stress obedience as much as LDS do. Life inside their compounds is harsh. Rachel's sister another of Warren Jeffs' daughters was living in South Dakota. Many have escaped which caused the leaders to heighten security. These places are like prisons.

Here's the less strict LDS version:

LDS Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual Enrichment G, p. 395.gif

LDS Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, Entichment G,p. 395 (copyright 1981)

"A prophet needs to be more than a priest or a minister or an elder. His voice becomes the voice of God," said President Spencer W. Kimball (in Conference Report, Apr. 1970, p. 120).
LDS Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, Enrichment F, p. 389 (copyright 1981)

D&C 21:1-
1 Behold, there shall be a record kept among you; and in it thou shalt be called a seer, a translator, a prophet, an apostle of Jesus Christ, an elder of the church through the will of God the Father, and the grace of your Lord Jesus Christ,

2 Being inspired of the Holy Ghost to lay the foundation thereof, and to build it up unto the most holy faith.

3 Which church was organized and established in the year of your Lord eighteen hundred and thirty, in the fourth month, and on the sixth day of the month which is called April.

4 Wherefore, meaning the church, thou shalt give heed unto all his words and commandments which he shall give unto you as he receiveth them, walking in all holiness before me;

5 For his word ye shall receive, as if from mine own mouth, in all patience and faith.
Doctrine and Covenants 21
 
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He is the way

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FLDS stress obedience as much as LDS do. Life inside their compounds is harsh. Rachel's sister another of Warren Jeffs' daughters was living in South Dakota. Many have escaped which caused the leaders to heighten security. These places are like prisons.

Here's the less strict LDS version:

View attachment 277194
LDS Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, Entichment G,p. 395 (copyright 1981)

"A prophet needs to be more than a priest or a minister or an elder. His voice becomes the voice of God," said President Spencer W. Kimball (in Conference Report, Apr. 1970, p. 120).
LDS Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, Enrichment F, p. 389 (copyright 1981)

D&C 21:1-
1 Behold, there shall be a record kept among you; and in it thou shalt be called a seer, a translator, a prophet, an apostle of Jesus Christ, an elder of the church through the will of God the Father, and the grace of your Lord Jesus Christ,

2 Being inspired of the Holy Ghost to lay the foundation thereof, and to build it up unto the most holy faith.

3 Which church was organized and established in the year of your Lord eighteen hundred and thirty, in the fourth month, and on the sixth day of the month which is called April.

4 Wherefore, meaning the church, thou shalt give heed unto all his words and commandments which he shall give unto you as he receiveth them, walking in all holiness before me;

5 For his word ye shall receive, as if from mine own mouth, in all patience and faith.
Doctrine and Covenants 21
How can a person call them selves a Christian if they are unwilling to keep the commandments?:

(New Testament | Hebrews 5:8 - 14)

8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.


Why are you bringing FLDS into a LDS discussion?
 
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Rescued One

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Calling yourself something doesn't mean you have to obey a human who claims to speak for God. Calling yourself a Mormon doesn't mean you keep the commandments of Mormonism.

Quoting every single Bible verse about obedience, doesn't prove that you are holier than true Christians. Pretending that Christians don't love Christ doesn't prove that Mormons do. Teaching that you must pay tithe and give additional offerings, not drink wine, not smoke, "follow the prophet," attend multiple meetings, teach a class or be a ward clerk, home teach your few designated families, have family home evening on Mondays, sacrifice your time, money, and talents, etc. is what Mormonism is.

FLDS have many similarities to CoJCoLDS. A HUGE emphasis on obedience is paramount. Temple marriage, Word of Wisdom, etc. are requirements.


Some members are deemed more worthy than others as in CoJCoLDS.


"He told followers that God ordered him to create a United Order of members most worthy of heaven. And, before the month was up, his brother Lyle was lining up members at the old elementary school and quizzing them about their lives and faith to determine who was, indeed, worthy. They were instructed to hand over everything they owned and told the church would provide for their earthly needs.

"The prophet -- and there is little doubt Warren Jeffs is still the FLDS prophet -- chooses who will be included in the United Order. His brothers, Lyle and Seth, serve as "bishops" and carry out the prophet's wishes at FLDS compounds along the Utah-Arizona border and in the Black Hills of South Dakota..."

"The cook, Allene Jeffs Steed, told the FBI last year that while she prepared feasts of lobster and shrimp for the bishop, her own children "lived off toast." She used duct tape to hold her kids' shoes together. And hers wasn't the only FLDS family to go without."
Banished FLDS followers expose their prophet's secrets - CNN

Joseph Smith even tried to implement the United Order (of Enoch).

Membership in the United Order was voluntary, although during a period in the 1830s, it was a requirement of continued church membership. Participants
would deed (consecrate) all their property to the United Order, which would in turn deed back an "inheritance" (or "stewardship") which allowed members to control the property; private property was not eradicated but was rather a fundamental principle of this system.[2] At the end of each year, any excess that the family produced from their stewardship was voluntarily given back to the Order. The Order in each community was operated by the local bishop.
United Order - Wikipedia

United Order


An organization through which the Saints in the early days of the restored Church sought to live the law of consecration. Individuals shared property, goods, and profits, receiving these things according to their wants and needs (D&C 51:3; 78:1–15; 104).




    • In your temporal things you shall be equal, D&C 70:14.
    • The Lord gave unto the united order a revelation and a commandment, D&C 92:1.
    • John Johnson should become a member of the united order, D&C 96:6–9.
    • The Lord gave general instructions for operating the united order, D&C 104.
    • My people are not united according to the union required by the celestial kingdom, D&C 105:1–13.
 
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Rescued One

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No we don't. We know that we are saved by grace after all that we can do.

It is no more grace.

Romans 11
1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, 3Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
 
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He is the way

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Calling yourself something doesn't mean you have to obey a human who claims to speak for God. Calling yourself a Mormon doesn't mean you keep the commandments of Mormonism.

Quoting every single Bible verse about obedience, doesn't prove that you are holier than true Christians. Pretending that Christians don't love Christ doesn't prove that Mormons do. Teaching that you must pay tithe and give additional offerings, not drink wine, not smoke, "follow the prophet," attend multiple meetings, teach a class or be a ward clerk, home teach your few designated families, have family home evening on Mondays, sacrifice you time, money, and talents, etc.

FLDS have many similarities to CoJCoLDS. A HUGE emphasis on obedience is paramount. Temple marriage, Word of Wisdom, etc. are requirements.

Some members are deemed more worthy than others as in CoJCoLDS.


"He told followers that God ordered him to create a United Order of members most worthy of heaven. And, before the month was up, his brother Lyle was lining up members at the old elementary school and quizzing them about their lives and faith to determine who was, indeed, worthy. They were instructed to hand over everything they owned and told the church would provide for their earthly needs.

"The prophet -- and there is little doubt Warren Jeffs is still the FLDS prophet -- chooses who will be included in the United Order. His brothers, Lyle and Seth, serve as "bishops" and carry out the prophet's wishes at FLDS compounds along the Utah-Arizona border and in the Black Hills of South Dakota..."

"The cook, Allene Jeffs Steed, told the FBI last year that while she prepared feasts of lobster and shrimp for the bishop, her own children "lived off toast." She used duct tape to hold her kids' shoes together. And hers wasn't the only FLDS family to go without."
Banished FLDS followers expose their prophet's secrets - CNN

Joseph Smith even tried to implement the United Order (of Enoch).

Membership in the United Order was voluntary, although during a period in the 1830s, it was a requirement of continued church membership. Participants
would deed (consecrate) all their property to the United Order, which would in turn deed back an "inheritance" (or "stewardship") which allowed members to control the property; private property was not eradicated but was rather a fundamental principle of this system.[2] At the end of each year, any excess that the family produced from their stewardship was voluntarily given back to the Order. The Order in each community was operated by the local bishop.
United Order - Wikipedia

United Order


An organization through which the Saints in the early days of the restored Church sought to live the law of consecration. Individuals shared property, goods, and profits, receiving these things according to their wants and needs (D&C 51:3; 78:1–15; 104).




    • In your temporal things you shall be equal, D&C 70:14.
    • The Lord gave unto the united order a revelation and a commandment, D&C 92:1.
    • John Johnson should become a member of the united order, D&C 96:6–9.
    • The Lord gave general instructions for operating the united order, D&C 104.
    • My people are not united according to the union required by the celestial kingdom, D&C 105:1–13.
The united order was also practiced in the Bible:

(New Testament | Acts 2:44 - 47)

44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

(New Testament | Acts 4:32 - 35)

32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

I am not defending the way the united order was used by the FLDS in an unequal manner. I don't know how well the united order worked in New Testament times, but it did not work well in the early days of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. There were those who took advantage of the system. I believe it will work much better in the world to come.

In the Bible there is a HUGE emphasis on obedience. I don't know if you noticed that even though it is so prevalent.
 
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BigDaddy4

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The united order was also practiced in the Bible:
That's a pretty reckless assertion and not based on fact. It shows either you lack understanding or you're lying for your religion. Which is it?
 
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Rescued One

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He is the way, said:
"...In the Bible there is a HUGE emphasis on obedience. I don't know if you noticed that even though it is so prevalent."

The Bible does not teach that a person's worth is based on obedience. Obedience comes from being transformed by Christ.


Philippians 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:


We are equal in Christ. Mormonism is judgmental. That's why my bishop yelled at me when I told him I was leaving. He was very rude.

[Church history] if not properly written or properly taught,... may be a faith destroyer... The writer or teacher who has an exaggerated loyalty to the theory that everything must be told is laying a foundation for his own judgment.... The Lord made it very clear that some things are to be taught selectively and some things are to be given only to those who are worthy.
Boyd K. Packer, "The Mantle is Far, Far Greater Than the Intellect," reprinted in BYU Studies, v. 21, no. 3, 1981, pp. 259‑277

Those who are denied endless increase cannot be what God is because that, in connection with other things, makes him God. The eternity of the marriage convenant ought to be understood by Latter-day Saints clearly to be the sealing of at least one woman to one man for time and for all eternity. Then do not get confused on that point and imagine that it necessarily means more than one woman. It may be, certainly, but it does mean at least that one man and one woman are sealed together by the power of the Holy Priesthood and by the sealing approval of the Holy Ghost for time and for all eternity, and then that they keep their convenants, before they will be candidates for the highest degree of celestial glory, and unto them only of all these groups of our Father's children is the promise made of endless or eternal increase.

What do we mean by endless or eternal increase? We mean that through the righteousness and faithfulness of men and women who keep the commandments of God they will come forth with celestial bodies, fitted and prepared to enter into their great, high and eternal glory in the celestial kingdom of God; and unto them, through their preparation, there will come children, who will be spirit children. I don't think that is very difficult to comprehend and understand. The nature of the offspring is determined by the nature of the substance that flows in the veins of the being. When blood flows in the veins of the being, the offspring will be what blood produces, which is tangible flesh and bone, but when that which flows in the veins is spirit matter, a substance which is more refined and pure and glorious than blood, the offspring of such beings will be spirit children. By that I mean they will be in the image of the parents. They will have a spirit body and have a spark of the eternal or divine that always did exist in them.

Unto such parentage will this glorious privilege come, for it is written in our scriptures that "the glory of God is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." So, it will be the glory of men and women that will make their glory like unto his. When the power of endless increase shall come to them, and their offspring, growing and multiplying through ages that shall come, they will be in due time, as we have been, provided with an earth like this, wherein they too may obtain earthly bodies and pass through all the experiences through which we have passed, and then we shall hold our relationship to them, the fulness and completeness of which has not been revealed to us, but we shall stand in our relationship to them as God, our Eternal Father, does to us, and thereby is this the most glorious and wonderful privilege that ever will come to any of the sons and daughters of God...

There are Latter-day Saints, many of them, who are not valiant in the testimony of Jesus, though they have entered into these covenants have not kept them. They have broken their pledges and may come forth in the resurrection and find themselves wholly unworthy to be candidates for the celestial glory. They will come up in the terrestrial world. It is for us to make our calling and election sure. We can do it in this life.
Melvin J. Ballard, The Three Degrees of Glory

The Three Degrees of Glory | Melvin J. Ballard

It's pathetic nonsense.
 
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He is the way

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That's a pretty reckless assertion and not based on fact. It shows either you lack understanding or you're lying for your religion. Which is it?
I posted the proof. Your unbelief goes against the Bible.
 
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He is the way

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He is the way, said:
"...In the Bible there is a HUGE emphasis on obedience. I don't know if you noticed that even though it is so prevalent."

The Bible does not teach that a person's worth is based on obedience. Obedience comes from being transformed by Christ.

You said: "The Bible does not teach that a person's worth is based on obedience. Obedience comes from being transformed by Christ."

The Bible certainly does teach that God is pleased in a person who obeys Him:

(Old Testament | Job 1:1)

1 THERE was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

(Old Testament | Genesis 26:4 - 5)

4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

(New Testament | Matthew 3:17)

17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
 
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You said: "The Bible does not teach that a person's worth is based on obedience. Obedience comes from being transformed by Christ."

The Bible certainly does teach that God is pleased in a person who obeys Him:

(Old Testament | Job 1:1)

1 THERE was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

(Old Testament | Genesis 26:4 - 5)

4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

(New Testament | Matthew 3:17)

17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Mormons always ignore the truths that Paul taught:

Our righteousness is imputed by Christ; Christ paid the price; He purchased us. He transforms us. He began the work and will complete it.

The Triune God does no wrong ever! The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit never disagee.

"Obedience comes from being transformed by Christ."
 
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He is the way

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Mormons always ignore the truths that Paul taught:

Our righteousness is imputed by Christ; Christ paid the price; He purchased us. He transforms us. He began the work and will complete it.

The Triune God does no wrong ever! The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit never disagee.

"Obedience comes from being transformed by Christ."
You said: "Obedience comes from being transformed by Christ."

Obedience comes through LOVING Jesus Christ. We do NOT ignore what Jesus Christ said:

(New Testament | John 14:15)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Peter understood the meaning of obedience:

(New Testament | 2 Peter 1:2 - 10)

2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
 
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We love Him BECAUSE He FIRST loved us. We did not CAUSE Him to love us!
It is not about His LOVE for us, it is about our LOVE for Him and how we LOVE Him. We LOVE Him by keeping His commandments which He gave us:

(Old Testament | Nehemiah 1:5)

5 And said, I beseech thee, O LORD God of heaven, the great and terrible God, that keepeth covenant and mercy for them that love him and observe his commandments:

(New Testament | 1 John 5:1 - 4)

1 WHOSOEVER believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
 
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