no one has seen God

lambofgod43985889

of christian forum
Supporter
Jun 28, 2018
1,132
385
temuco
✟155,137.00
Country
Chile
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Private
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

when jacob saw the back of God it was father's back or Jesus' back?

don't reply father and son are the same
 

Tigger45

Romans 12:2…be transformed…
Supporter
Aug 24, 2012
20,713
13,149
E. Eden
✟1,264,386.00
Country
United States
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Constitution
I’ve always had the inclination it was the Holy Trinity and that the phrasing was metaphorical suggesting that the encounter wasn’t God’s full Glory (face to face) but mitigated somehow.
 
Upvote 0

ewq1938

I love you three.
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Supporter
Nov 5, 2011
44,413
6,797
✟915,691.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.


That isn't a very well translated verse:

No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. John 1:18


This phrase is a figure of speech that simply means no one has fully understood or known God except Jesus and that's because Jesus is God's son.


Clarke:


It is likely that the word seen, here, is put for known, as in Joh_3:32; 1Jo_3:2, 1Jo_3:6, and 3Jo_1:11; and this sense the latter clause of the verse seems to require: - No man, how highly soever favored, hath fully known God, at any time, in any nation or age; the only begotten Son
 
  • Like
Reactions: The Liturgist
Upvote 0

St_Worm2

Simul Justus et Peccator
Supporter
Jan 28, 2002
27,247
45,335
67
✟2,916,149.00
Country
United States
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
No one has ever seen God ... when jacob saw the back of God it was father's back or Jesus' back? ... don't reply father and son are the same
The Apostle John, in John 12:41, appears to indicate that it was God the Son who was sitting on the throne in Isaiah's vision (Isaiah 6:1-4). It also seems possible (likely?) that all of God's physical appearances in the OT may have been made by the 2nd Member of the Godhead (based on John 1:18, your premise from the OP).

However, since arriving at a conclusion about this would necessarily be based on conjecture (principally), I think it is best to leave it as the Biblical 'mystery' that it is, a wonderment that God did not choose to fully reveal to us .. cf Deuteronomy 29:29.

--David
p.s. - as an aside, how do we reconcile John 1:18 with Stephen's proclamation in Acts 7:55-56?

Thanks :)

Deuteronomy 29
29 The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever, that we may observe all the words of this law.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Daniel Marsh

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2015
9,748
2,615
Livingston County, MI, US
✟199,349.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

when jacob saw the back of God it was father's back or Jesus' back?

don't reply father and son are the same


I John 4
God Is Love

7 Beloved, let us love one another; for love is of God, and he who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God; for God is love. 9 In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No man has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.

13 By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his own Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son as the Savior of the world. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16 So we know and believe the love God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. 17 In this is love perfected with us, that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and he who fears is not perfected in love. 19 We love, because he first loved us. 20 If any one says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. 21 And this commandment we have from him, that he who loves God should love his brother also.
 
  • Like
Reactions: friend of
Upvote 0

Daniel Marsh

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2015
9,748
2,615
Livingston County, MI, US
✟199,349.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
1 Timothy 6:11-16 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

11 But you belong to God. So you should stay away from all those things. Always try to do what is right, to be devoted to God, and to have faith, love, patience, and gentleness. 12 We have to fight to keep our faith. Try as hard as you can to win that fight. Take hold of eternal life. It is the life you were chosen to have when you confessed your faith in Jesus—that wonderful truth that you spoke so openly and that so many people heard. 13 Before God and Christ Jesus I give you a command. Jesus is the one who confessed that same wonderful truth when he stood before Pontius Pilate. And God is the one who gives life to everything. Now I tell you this: 14 Do what you were commanded to do without fault or blame until the time when our Lord Jesus Christ comes again. 15 God will make that happen at the right time. God is the blessed and only Ruler. He is the King of all kings and the Lord of all lords. 16 God is the only one who never dies. He lives in light so bright that people cannot go near it. No one has ever seen him; no one is able to see him. All honor and power belong to him forever. Amen.

The reason no one has ever seen the Father is because of the Light he lives in.
 
Upvote 0

Daniel Marsh

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2015
9,748
2,615
Livingston County, MI, US
✟199,349.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Upvote 0

lambofgod43985889

of christian forum
Supporter
Jun 28, 2018
1,132
385
temuco
✟155,137.00
Country
Chile
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Private
1 Timothy 6:11-16 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

11 But you belong to God. So you should stay away from all those things. Always try to do what is right, to be devoted to God, and to have faith, love, patience, and gentleness. 12 We have to fight to keep our faith. Try as hard as you can to win that fight. Take hold of eternal life. It is the life you were chosen to have when you confessed your faith in Jesus—that wonderful truth that you spoke so openly and that so many people heard. 13 Before God and Christ Jesus I give you a command. Jesus is the one who confessed that same wonderful truth when he stood before Pontius Pilate. And God is the one who gives life to everything. Now I tell you this: 14 Do what you were commanded to do without fault or blame until the time when our Lord Jesus Christ comes again. 15 God will make that happen at the right time. God is the blessed and only Ruler. He is the King of all kings and the Lord of all lords. 16 God is the only one who never dies. He lives in light so bright that people cannot go near it. No one has ever seen him; no one is able to see him. All honor and power belong to him forever. Amen.

The reason no one has ever seen the Father is because of the Light he lives in.
what about what jacob saw when fight with god
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Radagast

comes and goes
Supporter
Dec 10, 2003
23,821
9,817
✟312,047.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
That isn't a very well translated verse:

No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. John 1:18

Two issues there: (1) some ancient Greek manuscripts include explicit statements that Jesus is God (e.g. the Codex Sinaiticus has μονογενηϲ θϲ = only begotten God), and (2) how should one translate "in the bosom of the Father"?

So we have:

CSB: No one has ever seen God. The one and only Son, who is himself God and is at the Father’s side—he has revealed him.

ESV: No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known.

NASB: No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

NIV: No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
 
Upvote 0

ewq1938

I love you three.
Christian Forums Staff
Administrator
Supporter
Nov 5, 2011
44,413
6,797
✟915,691.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
Two issues there: (1) some ancient Greek manuscripts include explicit statements that Jesus is God, and (2) how should one translate "in the bosom of the Father"?

So we have:

CSB: No one has ever seen God. The one and only Son, who is himself God and is at the Father’s side—he has revealed him.

ESV: No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known.

NASB: No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

NIV: No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.


That isn't really the translation issue. It's that Christ wasn't talking about no one visibly seeing God but understanding God. Many people have seen God so that's extra evidence the verse isn't discussing seeing things with eyesight.
 
Upvote 0

Radagast

comes and goes
Supporter
Dec 10, 2003
23,821
9,817
✟312,047.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
That isn't really the translation issue. It's that Christ wasn't talking about no one visibly seeing God but understanding God.

I'm not too sure about that. It says what it says.

Many people have seen God

Not really. Like Moses, they may have been given a tiny glimpse of who God is.

I'll take your word for the translation of the verb ἐξηγήσατο.
 
Upvote 0

1watchman

Overseer
Supporter
Oct 9, 2010
6,039
1,226
Washington State
✟358,358.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I have come to see in over-all view of Scripture, that NO one will ever see the Creator-God, for even in the Old Testament the teachers and prophets could not see God; and Scripture shows that when the true "born again" saints get to Heaven they will see Jesus and dwell with Him in the Father's house. They will clearly hear the Father speaking (much as the OT saints did). That is because God exists in many forms throughout the Bible to serve various purposes. Jesus said in John 14: "...when ye see Me ye have seen the Father...". The saints in Heaven will see manifestations of the Creator-God, but cannot look upon Him, for as He said: he is "...a consuming fire"; and to look upon Him would cause us to be consumed. We must not think we have to always look at the Creator in our form, though we are "made in His image" (somewhat likeness) as told. Let us look to Jesus and be glad and satisfied ---which pleases the Father.
 
Last edited:
  • Winner
Reactions: Andrewn
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

lambofgod43985889

of christian forum
Supporter
Jun 28, 2018
1,132
385
temuco
✟155,137.00
Country
Chile
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Private
I have come to see in over-all view of Scripture, that NO one will ever see the Creator-God, for even in the Old Testament the teachers and prophets could not see God; and Scripture shows that when the true "born again" saints get to Heaven they will see Jesus and dwell with Him in the Father's house. They will clearly hear the Father speaking (much as the OT saints did). That is because God exists in many forms throughout the Bible to serve various purposes. Jesus said in John 14: "...when ye see Me ye have seen the Father...". The saints in Heaven will see manifestations of the Creator-God, but cannot look upon Him, for as He said: he is "...a consuming fire"; and to look upon Him would cause us to be consumed. We must not think we have to always look at the Creator in our form, though we are "made in His image" (somewhat likeness) as told. Let us look to Jesus and be glad and satisfied ---which pleases the Father.
god lives in a light no creature's eyes can see
 
  • Like
Reactions: Andrewn
Upvote 0

Daniel Marsh

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2015
9,748
2,615
Livingston County, MI, US
✟199,349.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I think Jacob was wrestling with an angel of the Lord. Not God himself, but His representative. I think idk

That may fall under Theophanies, likely Son of God making an appearance in the passage.
Theophany - Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology Online
This theological dictionary tells us it was only an angel that Jacob beat.

Hosea 12 King James Version (KJV)
12 Ephraim feedeth on wind, and followeth after the east wind: he daily increaseth lies and desolation; and they do make a covenant with the Assyrians, and oil is carried into Egypt.

2 The Lord hath also a controversy with Judah, and will punish Jacob according to his ways; according to his doings will he recompense him.

3 He took his brother by the heel in the womb, and by his strength he had power with God:

4 Yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed: he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him in Bethel, and there he spake with us;

5 Even the Lord God of hosts; the Lord is his memorial.

6 Therefore turn thou to thy God: keep mercy and judgment and wait on thy God continually.

7 He is a merchant, the balances of deceit are in his hand: he loveth to oppress.
 
Upvote 0

Daniel Marsh

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2015
9,748
2,615
Livingston County, MI, US
✟199,349.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I have come to see in over-all view of Scripture, that NO one will ever see the Creator-God, for even in the Old Testament the teachers and prophets could not see God; and Scripture shows that when the true "born again" saints get to Heaven they will see Jesus and dwell with Him in the Father's house. They will clearly hear the Father speaking (much as the OT saints did). That is because God exists in many forms throughout the Bible to serve various purposes. Jesus said in John 14: "...when ye see Me ye have seen the Father...". The saints in Heaven will see manifestations of the Creator-God, but cannot look upon Him, for as He said: he is "...a consuming fire"; and to look upon Him would cause us to be consumed. We must not think we have to always look at the Creator in our form, though we are "made in His image" (somewhat likeness) as told. Let us look to Jesus and be glad and satisfied ---which pleases the Father.

Jesus likely means we see the Father's character and works in Jesus.
 
Upvote 0

Radagast

comes and goes
Supporter
Dec 10, 2003
23,821
9,817
✟312,047.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
  • Winner
Reactions: Daniel Marsh
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums