Check out these verses...
Matthew 17:21, 18:11, 23:14;
Mark 7:16, 9:44, 9:46;
Luke 17:36, 23:17;
John 5:4; Acts 8:37.
Matthew 17:21, 18:11, 23:14;
Mark 7:16, 9:44, 9:46;
Luke 17:36, 23:17;
John 5:4; Acts 8:37.
What does your translation say?
- Thread starter visionary
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Hmmm... let me make sure I understand this op correctly.
You want us to discuss the various and diverse translations of ten separate verses and you want us to do so even though there are some two dozen or more translations and every single one of these ten verses listed is removed from its inherent context. And we're supposed to answer this inquiry not knowing your intent, or purpose, and not knowing the direction or objective desired for the op.
Is that what you intend to communicate to the readers?
If not then please state your purpose and do so concisely and in a manner that facilitates cogent discourse.
Thanks
You want us to discuss the various and diverse translations of ten separate verses and you want us to do so even though there are some two dozen or more translations and every single one of these ten verses listed is removed from its inherent context. And we're supposed to answer this inquiry not knowing your intent, or purpose, and not knowing the direction or objective desired for the op.
Is that what you intend to communicate to the readers?
If not then please state your purpose and do so concisely and in a manner that facilitates cogent discourse.
Thanks
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GreekOrthodox
Psalti Chrysostom
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Mine says "ἄγγελος γὰρ κατὰ καιρὸν κατέβαινεν ἐν τῇ κολυμβήθρᾳ, καὶ ἐταράσσετο τὸ ὕδωρ· ὁ οὖν πρῶτος ἐμβὰς μετὰ τὴν ταραχὴν τοῦ ὕδατος ὑγιὴς ἐγίνετο ᾧ δήποτε κατείχετο νοσήματι."
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I was hoping that by checking it out, it would soon become obvious there are somethings that are similar in translators selection and maybe it can become and interesting discussion as to why.
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I read texts about the discovery of the Codex Sinaiticus at St. Catherine’s in the Sinai desert by Tischendorf. It is one of the three oldest Bibles known. It does not have John 5:4 about the stirring of the water at the Pool of Bethesda. The Pool(s) of Bethesda have been located in the NE quarter of Jerusalem. The French Catholics maintained the site when I was there.
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chunkofcoal
Messianic Christian
Are you interested in how each verse is translated or how a particular word in each verse is translated?
Like in "Mat 17:21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting" the word for "kind" is genos and translated in other parts of the NT as nation, kindred, offspring, stock, diversities, etc?
Like in "Mat 17:21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting" the word for "kind" is genos and translated in other parts of the NT as nation, kindred, offspring, stock, diversities, etc?
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Is that "...there are some things that are similar in translators' selection..."?
Why there are similarities among the different translations?
If so then my response is "Why would you NOT expect similarities?" All the translators are working from the same basic collection of manuscripts.
My next response is this: we live in an age and most of us live in conditions in which the Hebrew and Greek transliterations are literally (pun intended
) within seconds of a mouse click away so translations have become somewhat moot. They exist to facilitate a causal understanding of the text for those who consult the Bible in hard copies when away from their computers. When at the computer we can near-instantly verify any given translation and explore the differences for fuller meaning (or to reject bad translation). Third: Is there a specific similarity about which you're curious or about which there's a specific point for discussion?
Fourth: If there is something specific on your mind then do please relate it back to Messianic Judaism.
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Why did this thread not start a conversation? Why was this not a stimulus to see the difference and curiosity as to why? So far, it has been pushed back on my shoulders as to the why did I even start the thread. Since I have not stimulated conversation, nor study into the subject, I am sadly disappointed.Is that "...there are some things that are similar in translators' selection..."?
Why there are similarities among the different translations?
If so then my response is "Why would you NOT expect similarities?" All the translators are working from the same basic collection of manuscripts.
My next response is this: we live in an age and most of us live in conditions in which the Hebrew and Greek transliterations are literally (pun intended
Third: Is there a specific similarity about which you're curious or about which there's a specific point for discussion?
Fourth: If there is something specific on your mind then do please relate it back to Messianic Judaism.
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I believe all that is necessary is for you to clarify the intent or purpose of the discussion and to cite a specific comment or point of inquiry to be discussed.
For example: "Look at the various ways these ten verses are each translated. I believe there is some things in common with the manner in which they are rendered and among them is _______X_________. What do you think of ________X_________ relevant to the Messianic Judaisms position ____Y___?"
That gives the readers something to discuss.
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What is that purpose?
You've stated you were hoping hoping others would find obvious there are some things that are similar in translators selection and why that is could be discussed but we're a dozen posts into this op and no one knows what it is you find similar in the translator's selection(s). The verses don't appear related in any way topically, so it's hard to see how any single doctrinal influence can be at play.
I consulted sixteen different translations of the first verse and the only observable difference is the use of "comes" instead of "goes" in a minority of translations. I am unaware of any doctrinal position that would explain why some translators chose "comes" instead of "goes" for the Greek "ekporeuetai." They could have chosen "departs," or "cast out," or other words but again I am unaware of any doctrinal position that would assert one over the other.
I found the same thing to be true of Matthew 18:11, too. Of the 15 translations I consulted 11 of them render the text near identically and they translated the Geek directly. Three translations left out "...that which is..." and one included "...whatever has been..." instead of "...that which is..." I am again unaware of any doctrinal position that would explain that difference.
Perhaps you could enlighten me.
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chunkofcoal
Messianic Christian
Isn't that just how things are, though? Kind of like the Christian version of "Two Jews, three opinions"?
As for "blood of Yeshua" the word "blood" might be translated the same each time but sometimes it might be "blood", sometimes it might be a metaphor.
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chunkofcoal
Messianic Christian
That clarifies things! Not all of these verses are in parenthesis in every bible - for example in my old KJV the only one from your list in parenthesis is Luke 23:17.
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AbbaLove
Circumcism Of The Heart
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Shouldn't it also be "affect[ive]" After all as emotional beings the "blood of Yeshua" is very precious to the well-being of our emotional hearts. 
The "blood of Yeshua" is affective and effective
After all as emotional beings the "blood of Yeshua" is very precious to the well-being of our emotional hearts.
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While I agree with the emotional aspect, it is also prudent that we still think with our heads, and the "blood of Yeshua" goes into the ceremonial, the prophetic, and the temple services of the sacrifice He made. Emotions come and go, while principles lived by are the foundation. Our faith is a precept upon precept growth not of emotions but all the Truth, the Way, and the Life of Yeshua..Shouldn't it also be "affect[ive]"
The "blood of Yeshua" is affective and effective
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AbbaLove
Circumcism Of The Heart
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Au Contraire my dear sister. Thinking with our religious minds instead of our heart (His Spirit) leads only to more and more denominations, doctrines and theologies (man's religious traditions).
Emotions can be a good thing or the LORD GOD wouldn't have given us emotions. Certainly you wouldn't give Satan the credit for giving us our emotions such as laughter, sorrow, crying, joy and love.
FWIW, on your thread where another member said the KJV was wrong in that scripture verse capitalizing both LORD and GOD you agreed with him and I was just a fisherman. At the time you and others thought he had one of the best "heads/minds" posting in this MJ forum. He was also the member that thought a better translation of Thomas' words (John 20:28) should have been "My Lord and my god" (with a lower case g). Do you now see that he was wrong and that the KJV translation is correct.
Saul, before becoming the apostle Paul thought he had his head screwed on just as tight as the other Pharisees with their brilliant minds. Yet, Nicodemus as Israel's teacher didn't understand Yeshua when he said, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. "
Emotions can be a good thing or the LORD GOD wouldn't have given us emotions. Certainly you wouldn't give Satan the credit for giving us our emotions such as laughter, sorrow, crying, joy and love.
FWIW, on your thread where another member said the KJV was wrong in that scripture verse capitalizing both LORD and GOD you agreed with him and I was just a fisherman. At the time you and others thought he had one of the best "heads/minds" posting in this MJ forum. He was also the member that thought a better translation of Thomas' words (John 20:28) should have been "My Lord and my god" (with a lower case g). Do you now see that he was wrong and that the KJV translation is correct.
Saul, before becoming the apostle Paul thought he had his head screwed on just as tight as the other Pharisees with their brilliant minds. Yet, Nicodemus as Israel's teacher didn't understand Yeshua when he said, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. "
Proverbs 3:5-6
5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct thy paths.
5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct thy paths.
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Thank you AbbaLove, that made my day!Shouldn't it also be "affect[ive]"
The "blood of Yeshua" is affective and effective
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I probably should have clarified in my post, which part I agreed with. Sadly I do not remember that particular post nor thread it was in.
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