Ahmaud Arbery Thread #2
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Ana the Ist
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Here anyone can speculate....be my guest.
In court, it's not considered evidence. I don't see how anyone would be able to argue that Arbery felt threatened.
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Subduction Zone
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I am going to quote the most relevant section of this link:
" Assault is also any intentional act or threat of action that reasonably causes a person to feel afraid of impending violence."
When one obviously armed person (carrying a shotgun) and one likely armed person chases down another, not just following them once with a car but cutting them off after the person ran the other way, then the person running from those that have weapons has a reasonable fear of impending violence. The Georgia state law only allows a citizen's arrest if someone was directly observed performing a crime. That was not the case here. Arbery was a suspect at best. That does no qualify for citizen's arrest. Good faith or not the action of the Michael's was illegal. Bringing guns into the situation elevated it to assault with a deadly weapon. The only person with a right to claim "self defense" was Arbery.
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Subduction Zone
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Just because someone claims that something is speculation does not make it so. A lawyer could and would argue how it was a more than reasonable response. At that time it is no longer speculation. It is an explanation supported by evidence.
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Ana the Ist
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Sure.
Possibly.
The problem here is that legally, you aren't allowed to make guesses about someone's state of mind.
Is it a fact that you don't know Arbery's thoughts before the shooting?
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Ana the Ist
Aggressively serene!
A lawyer could also argue that he was just trying to avoid arrest....not afraid for his life.
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This will never be answered because we all know the default is the black person is in the wrong, no matter what. Living while black is a reality and in this reality, you are born a suspect. Your job is to put white people at ease; if you are being chased by people with guns, then you surely it is for a reason, so you should get down and do whatever they say if they are white. In this scenario with black people, clearly the black people are wrong, they have guns! At the end of the day, the double standard for black lives is welcomed because there is an underlying belief that black people are criminals unless a white authority says otherwise. This authority applies to any white person; else you wouldn't have a prosecutor recusing himself while attempting to exonerate the men in this case; it's also the reason why you see press conference where the police defended the murder of Markeis McGlockton; it's the same reason Jacqueline Craig was arrested when she called the police for a man that assaulted her children.
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Subduction Zone
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What "arrest"? To arrest someone one must have a legal right to do so. The sources that I have linked point out that the Michael's did not observe a crime being committed by Arbery.
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Subduction Zone
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Any reasonable person would be afraid when being chased down by armed people. We he afraid? It is not unreasonable to assume that Arbery was reasonable.
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Ana the Ist
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You're wayyyyyy behind the news if you're asking this. Read some articles. Links have been posted in the thread.
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Yttrium
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A lawyer could attempt to make that argument. However, there seems to be no reason that he would be afraid of being arrested. Arrested by a couple guys who aren't police officers for what? Trespassing?
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Subduction Zone
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Wrong again. You are missing the point that the Michael's could not legally arrest Arbery. I recently linked an article on the Georgia citizen arrest laws that clearly state that the person's making an arrest had to personally observe a crime being committed. That was not the case. There was no exigent need for an arrest by the Michael's.
Also the use of deadly force is severely limited in a citizen's arrest. One cannot use it proactively, one can only use it reactively. Chasing someone with a shotgun is using deadly force.
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Ana the Ist
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I don't know if you're just misreading your own quote or you just don't understand it. Let's try again....
"Assault is also any intentional act or threat of action that reasonably causes a person to feel afraid of impending violence."
So in a case of assault we have a victim and the accused. The victim testifies that they were afraid because of xyz reasons....
They jury then decides if those fears were reasonable given the circumstances. That's why you really want an explicit threat here.
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Ana the Ist
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Yeah. I know it sounds stupid....but certainly no more stupid than rushing a pair of armed men.
And to be honest, I don't think they'd be able to make that argument either. It's still speculation. Lawyers are supposed to stick to the evidence.
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That's really the key issue in a nutshell. If Arbery was known to the McMichaels, it makes sense to report him to the police for further investigation if he was thought to have committed a robbery. It makes no sense at all however to decide to act as judge, jury and and if necessary, executioner, and take the law into their own hands by loading up with guns and ammo and going after him. This isn't the wild west.
Had the shooting victim been white, this case would have been handled very differently, and it's unlikely that the McMichael's would have even pursued the victim to start with.
I've worked around construction for a long time, and it's not at all unusual for various people to enter and exit a building that's under construction just out of pure curiosity. I've done it myself many times. Watching someone entering and exiting a construction site in no way justifies the assumption that they've stolen anything, and it certainly doesn't justify the assumption that I can go after them with guns and shoot them if *I* feel threatened by them.
This is pretty obviously a case where the black community, and the *whole* community is well justified in demanding justice.
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