The Olivet Discourse

pescador · May 18, 2020

keras said:
I have been away for a few days.
I see that this thread has been well hi-jacked by the confused and deceived posters here.

It really isn't too hard to discern what Jesus said in His Olivet Discourse applied soon or for a distant future time. The Temple was totally destroyed in 70 AD; there is no sign of it there today.
I can confidently assert that all of what Jesus said has application to us today. Some as examples of what the Lord will allow to happen to those who reject Him and most for our information about future events.

For example; in Luke 21:25-26 He describes dramatic cosmic events, something that has not occurred yet, but are quite feasible to happen and are reiterated in many other prophesies. We should be aware and prepared for their fulfilment, as we see the preceding signs taking place; like the volatile situation in the Middle East and the softening up of the world population to dictatorial control.

One point... You said that "The Temple was totally destroyed in 70 AD; there is no sign of it there today." What about the Western wall?

Davy · May 18, 2020

pescador said:
And no more capitalism, thank God.

You mean no more super-rich?

Well I don't know, God didn't give the Levite priests a land inheritance because He said He was their inheritance. And ya know, God does own everything!

Davy · May 18, 2020

mkgal1 said:
The western wall of Fort Antonia which was to the north of the Temple mount.

You need to do more research...

pescador · May 18, 2020

Davy said:
You mean no more super-rich?

Well I don't know, God didn't give the Levite priests a land inheritance because He said He was their inheritance. And ya know, God does own everything!

You mentioned communism and socialism in your post, so why did you omit capitalism? Both socialism and communism are designed to (theoretically) eliminate the super-rich, while capitalism isn't.

sovereigngrace · May 18, 2020

mkgal1 said:
I think you misunderstood the point of my request.

You and SG are trying to apply your understanding to the text. The idea that "coming" = coming BACK. It's not there in the text. Instead, what I'm trying to point out is that "coming" refers to God's judgment and omnipotence being revealed.

Not so. That is Full Preterist heresy.

sovereigngrace · May 18, 2020

Davy said:
You just don't understand, your fleshy thinking is in your way.

The reason the Kingdom of God doesn't come with flesh seeing, which is what our Lord Jesus was pointing to by their question, is because the Kingdom of God is 'within' (KJV). The Greek for "within" is entos, meaning 'inside'.

Luke 17:21
21 Neither shall they say, 'Lo here! or, lo there!' for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
KJV

I wish you could understand that, but the god of this world has blinded many away from understanding about the world to come. That's right, God's Kingdom is not of... this present world (John 18:36; Luke 4). How could Christ's Kingdom come in the spiritual today then? It's because the "new creature" change happens WITHIN us, to our spirit inside, not to our flesh!. It happens by Faith on The Father through His Son Jesus Christ, and not by any other way.

Yet God said He didn't create this earth in vain, but to be inhabited, i.e., lived upon. And in God's Kingdom, in the world to come, His children will live upon it, but not in flesh bodies, but in the "spiritual body" that Apostle Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15. That world won't come with fleshy seeing, it will come at the twinkling of an eye on the last day of this world when Jesus returns. God is going to remove the veil covering the heavenly dimension off on the last day of this world. In our spiritual body we will be in it. That was our Lord Jesus' meaning, He just didn't explain it to the blind Pharisees, because really they had His Word; they should have been following it instead of making up their false traditions.

That is not accurate. Your new earth is a bipolar age full of righteousness and unrighteousness. It is saturated with the wicked, sin, death and corruption. It is largely a re-run of our age. Amillennialism and Postmillennialism anticipates a new perfect earth that is populated with glorified saints.

parousia70 · May 18, 2020

sovereigngrace said:
Hour can refer to an exact or a period of time. In the above case, it refers to the intra-Advent period. The event/phrase "last day" refers to the future coming of the Lord, the general physical future resurrection and literal future general judgment, realities that only heretics would deny.

I couldn't help but notice the complete and utter absence of any scriptural support provided for this opinion.

parousia70 · May 18, 2020

sovereigngrace said:
Exactly! He has been working for thousands of years. He is still working, until he is destroyed with the brightness of Christ's coming.

Sigh... you believe a 2000 year old human being, a human MAN, alive in the first century, is still walking the earth waiting to be "revealed".... Seriously?

As for how God's brightness destroys his enemies in 2 Thess 2:8, I would refer you to how the brightness of God's presence always destroyed his enemies in the past: Ps 9:3-5; Ps 44:2-3; Ps 68:2&8; Ps 18:12; Nahum 1:5; Ps 97:5.
This is consistent jewish apocalyptic language.

You have no scriptural instruction to completely throw away and disregard the OT usage and apply a polar opposite interpretation to its use in the NT.

Not even one Scintilla.
You appear to have made it up to support your bias, for scripture teaches no such interpretation.

parousia70 · May 18, 2020

Davy said:
Dream on... stay spiritually drunken if that's what you want.

You can do better.
Why not address the question?
If you can't answer it just say so... but no need to attack my character... our readers are smart... they know that someone has lost an argument when they refuse to answer a question and instead resort to attaching the character of the questioner.

But ever the optimist I'll continue to give you a shot at explaining WHY the HS inspired Paul to plant the expectation into the Thessalonians minds and hearts... the expectation that THEY, back THEN NEEDED to "WATCH AND BE READY" for an event that would not take place for another 2000 years...

Tell us why you believe The HS Inspired Paul to Tell THE FIRST CENTURY THESSALONIANS, that THEY NEEDED TO WATCH AND BE READY for the DAY OF THE LORD so it would NOT overtake THEM unawares?

I think you have no answer, otherwise you would have furnished one by now....

parousia70 · May 18, 2020

sovereigngrace said:
Did every eye see Him in AD70? No!

In fact, furnish us with any witness accounts of His appearing in AD70? There are none!

I wish you could live up to your own expectation on this.

Did every eye of everyone in every nation See Gods actual arm as "scripture specifically says" here:

Jehovah hath made bare His holy arm before the eyes of all nations (Isa 52:10)

Please furnish us with any witness accounts.

Did EVERY EYE of Every person of every nation SEE God execute Judgment upon Israel at the time of the Babylonian Exile as "scripture specifically says" here:

Behold, I, even I, am against you; and I will execute judgments in the midst of you before the eyes of the nations. (Ez 5:7-9)

Please furnish us with any witness accounts.

Did ALL FLESH SEE God Kindle the fire In Israel that devoured every green tree there at that same time as "scripture specifically says" here?

Hear the word of Yahweh: Thus says the Lord Yahweh, Behold, I will kindle a fire in you, and it shall devour every green tree in you, and every dry tree: the flaming flame shall not be quenched, and all faces from the south to the north shall be burnt thereby. All flesh shall see that I, Yahweh, have kindled it...
(Ez 20:33-35,47-48; 21:3-5)

Please furnish us with any witness accounts.

mkgal1 · May 18, 2020

Davy said:
Christ's genealogy was thru Mary's lineage from Nathan given in Luke 3. Jeremiah 22:28-29 is pointing to Joseph's lineage through Solomon.

This may be a whole other thread, but Luke doesn't list any of the kings of the line of Judah in his genealogy of Christ (but Matthew 1:1-17 does - although six are omitted, including Jehoiachin).

From what I've read,, Matthew was originally written in Hebrew....and I think v.16 may be mistranslated.
Search <-------Hebrew manuscript

In order for the Messianic prophecies to be true - Jesus has to be in the line of Judah's kings....right?

ISTM that Luke is Joseph's genealogy and Matthew is Mary's.

mkgal1 · May 18, 2020

sovereigngrace said:
Not so. That is Full Preterist heresy.

Please refer to Parousia70's excellent post (#94) that gives us the Scriptural precedent set for the language usage of "coming". God is omnipresent....omnipotent...always has been. It's a matter of those characteristics being revealed throughout history.

mkgal1 · May 18, 2020

sovereigngrace said:
Not so. That is Full Preterist heresy.

No, it isn't. Check the SOP for this subforum about *partial* Preterism and the coming in judgement in 70 AD.

****disclosure: that doesn't mean I don't believe in a future coming of Christ. I do....I fully believe what we state in the Creeds..."He will come again".

mkgal1 · May 18, 2020

Davy said:
You need to do more research...

View attachment 277179

I see no discrepancy in that image. The western wall of the Temple was destroyed. The wailing wall is from the western wall of Fort Antonia....which is not the Temple.

mkgal1 · May 18, 2020

pescador said:
One point... You said that "The Temple was totally destroyed in 70 AD; there is no sign of it there today." What about the Western wall?

That remaining wall is from Fort Antonia....not the Temple.

sovereigngrace · May 18, 2020

parousia70 said:
I couldn't help but notice the complete and utter absence of any scriptural support provided for this opinion.

Check the Book. Hour can be 60 mins, moment or period.

parousia70 · May 18, 2020

sovereigngrace said:
Check the Book. Hour can be 60 mins, moment or period.

Why should I do YOUR research?

The onus is not on me.
The onus is on the CLAIMANT, which it YOU.

Show where scripture teaches and supports this claim YOU MADE:

"In the above case, it [Last Hour] refers to the intra-Advent period."

Where does scripture teach that in the case of 1 John 2:18, Last Hour MUST be interpreted as "The Intra-Advent Period"

Show us the Chapter and verse that teaches this.

(and FYI, "It's Obvious" is not the correct answer to "where does scripture teach this".)

sovereigngrace · May 18, 2020

parousia70 said:
Why should I do YOUR research?

The onus is not on me.
The onus is on the CLAIMANT, which it YOU.

Show where scripture teaches and supports this claim YOU MADE:

"In the above case, it [Last Hour] refers to the intra-Advent period."

Where does scripture teach that in the case of 1 John 2:18, Last Hour MUST be interpreted as "The Intra-Advent Period"

Show us the Chapter and verse that teaches this.

I have no desire for you to research anything on my behalf. I am well able to do that myself.

The last days were ushered in before Titus and lasted longer than Him. It began at the first advent and will continue till the second advent. We are still in the last times. This was the messianic era the OT prophets longed for where Christ would reign upon the throne of David and over his enemies.

parousia70 · May 18, 2020

sovereigngrace said:
The last days were ushered in before Titus and lasted longer than Him. It began at the first advent and will continue till the second advent. We are still in the last times.

I understand this is your belief, but I still see you have provided grand total of ZERO scriptures to support it.

Lets start with nailing down the BEGINNING. Can you do that for us?

You said they began BEFORE TITUS...(I believe that as well) so maybe we can build on that agreement?
How Long Before Titus do you believe they began?
What event do you believe scripture teaches marked the BEGINNING of the Biblical "Last Days"?

sovereigngrace · May 18, 2020

parousia70 said:
I understand this is your belief, but I still see you have provided grand total of ZERO scriptures to support it.

I have furnished you with numerous examples over the months but you dismiss them because of your obsession with the coming of Titus and AD70. The rest of us are focused on Christ, His First and Second Advents.

The Olivet Discourse

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