How do we make sustainable environments? Is "Evolution" always the most applicable?

Subduction Zone · May 16, 2020

OldWiseGuy said:
If one is afraid of distilled water a reverse osmosis system is a good alternative. Also most of your electrolytes come from food, so no worries. Our tap water is very hard and tastes terrible, as is common all over. I've been drinking only distilled water for nearly 50 years, no problems yet.

Yes, the odd belief that since water is a "universal solvent" that distilled water is dangerous. Water has very little flavor in most areas because even hard water has far less electrolytes and other solutes than does the food that we eat. Distilled water will not magically pull the calcium out of one's bones.

Gottservant · May 18, 2020

I think the thing is, if you have believed in Evolution and you don't make a sustainable environment (out of your faith), you have basically wasted your time? You have not done anything constructive, with your substitute for "faith"?

It's not as if it is hard: you just take something you can do well and you communicate how to do it with more wisdom - that's it.

It helps if you can see this communication through with a defence of those not able to do it as easily as you: but the point is, if you have made it easier, you have already done as much as you can, at least spiritually.

Shemjaza · May 18, 2020

Gottservant said:
I think the thing is, if you have believed in Evolution and you don't make a sustainable environment (out of your faith), you have basically wasted your time? You have not done anything constructive, with your substitute for "faith"?

Evolution has nothing to do with faith.

What do you mean by "sustainable environment" and what does it have to do with faith?

People can accept evolution and have faith in things or not, however their personal belief systems work.

Gottservant said:
It's not as if it is hard: you just take something you can do well and you communicate how to do it with more wisdom - that's it.

What does this have to do with evolution, faith or creating an environment for your self?

Gottservant said:
It helps if you can see this communication through with a defence of those not able to do it as easily as you: but the point is, if you have made it easier, you have already done as much as you can, at least spiritually.

I don't understand what this has to do with evolution, faith or creating an environment for your self?

Warden_of_the_Storm · May 18, 2020

Gottservant said:
I think the thing is, if you have believed in Evolution and you don't make a sustainable environment (out of your faith), you have basically wasted your time? You have not done anything constructive, with your substitute for "faith"?

It's not as if it is hard: you just take something you can do well and you communicate how to do it with more wisdom - that's it.

It helps if you can see this communication through with a defence of those not able to do it as easily as you: but the point is, if you have made it easier, you have already done as much as you can, at least spiritually.

I think the thing is is that you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about and you clearly have no idea about either the fact or the theory of evolution.
Seriously: Please try and actually learn about evolution before you create these half-brained ideas of yours.

Gottservant · May 18, 2020

I think Evolution may be the most applicable theory, as a question of urgency - but if that is to be more than a front, it will have to be thought out: what do we mean when we insist that Evolution is the most applicable response to this - a given example - of a sustainable environment.

If you close out competition, before weighing the load, you are not going to deliver the goods.

Warden_of_the_Storm · May 18, 2020

Gottservant said:
I think Evolution may be the most applicable theory, as a question of urgency - but if that is to be more than a front, it will have to be thought out: what do we mean when we insist that Evolution is the most applicable response to this - a given example - of a sustainable environment.

If you close out competition, before weighing the load, you are not going to deliver the goods.

You're not making any sense. How does evolution work 'as a question of urgency'?
And evolution works best in an environment of competition. Hence the phrase 'survival of the fittest'.

Gottservant · May 18, 2020

Shemjaza said:
Evolution has nothing to do with faith.

You are innocent of being called wilfully ignorant, I get that - but "faith" is something you have even when you have nothing else. It's not something that gets forgotten, if proof delivers you eggs instead of milk.

What do you mean by "sustainable environment" and what does it have to do with faith?

What I mean by "sustainable environment" is that when you first started to believe in Evolution, you did so in a particular environment. That environment was there, when you were busily populating your mind with ideas about how Evolution worked and what it worked for. Then you decided you "knew" what Evolution meant, and you stopped questioning it, and its relationship to that environment, which you felt had perhaps power, perhaps something else.

But there were other "environments" out there, to which Evolution could be introduced, with reference to the first understanding you had of Evolution, in a best case scenario. The point being, you were relying on Evolution being a sustainable concept, for the environment in which you found it and on the basis of that faith alone (the emphasis on faith) what you may not have realised, is that that same concept of Evolution, may be responsible to, or for or with, other environments - no selection pressure exists, without existing in a sustainable environment, for that "selection pressure".

That's what I mean when I say "sustainable environment".

People can accept evolution and have faith in things or not, however their personal belief systems work.

You cannot exist as yourself, if you are dependent on an environment and that environment does not exist.

If there were no environment in which Evolution was true, Evolution would cease to exist (as a concept, in principle).

What does this have to do with evolution, faith or creating an environment for your self?

If you can stipulate where Evolution does and does not exist, you are able to create a working model of Evolution - not just a theory.

I don't understand what this has to do with evolution, faith or creating an environment for your self?

Birds create nests. Snakes develop venom.

What you do with what I say, is up to you?

Gottservant · May 18, 2020

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
You're not making any sense. How does evolution work 'as a question of urgency'?
And evolution works best in an environment of competition. Hence the phrase 'survival of the fittest'.

Yes but only God can create survival of the fittest "environment".

That's the point: I am showing you how faith in God applies to your theory.

Your theory may be fine, I am not questioning that - I am saying if you want your theory to live, you will have to develop a working model.

A working model is more than a truth concept.

A working model has a foundation in that which substantiates the theory for greater use - Evolution claims to know something about the environment in which adaptation takes place, greater use of the theory therefore depends on how you relate to that adaptation, from the standpoint of the total number of environments able to sustain that same adaptation - in the process, how to best conceive of "sustainability", becomes a tangent for independent enquiry. With a tangent established, you can then apply the theory to itself - giving it a dimension of truth (not merely conjecture).

Warden_of_the_Storm · May 18, 2020

Gottservant said:
That's the point: I am showing you how faith in God applies to your theory.

But you're not showing anything of the sort. You're saying that people have to have faith for evolution to work, which is not how biology works and definitely not how evolution works.
All you are showing is your own inability to learn and your own desire not to learn about evolution. Because if you did, you'd find that a good 99% of the stuff you write about it is completely and utterly wrong.

FrumiousBandersnatch · May 18, 2020

Gottservant said:
You are innocent of being called wilfully ignorant, I get that - but "faith" is something you have even when you have nothing else. It's not something that gets forgotten, if proof delivers you eggs instead of milk.

What I mean by "sustainable environment" is that when you first started to believe in Evolution, you did so in a particular environment. That environment was there, when you were busily populating your mind with ideas about how Evolution worked and what it worked for. Then you decided you "knew" what Evolution meant, and you stopped questioning it, and its relationship to that environment, which you felt had perhaps power, perhaps something else.

But there were other "environments" out there, to which Evolution could be introduced, with reference to the first understanding you had of Evolution, in a best case scenario. The point being, you were relying on Evolution being a sustainable concept, for the environment in which you found it and on the basis of that faith alone (the emphasis on faith) what you may not have realised, is that that same concept of Evolution, may be responsible to, or for or with, other environments - no selection pressure exists, without existing in a sustainable environment, for that "selection pressure".

That's what I mean when I say "sustainable environment".

You cannot exist as yourself, if you are dependent on an environment and that environment does not exist.

If there were no environment in which Evolution was true, Evolution would cease to exist (as a concept, in principle).

If you can stipulate where Evolution does and does not exist, you are able to create a working model of Evolution - not just a theory.

Birds create nests. Snakes develop venom.

What you do with what I say, is up to you?

I don't know what you mean by 'Evolution', but it doesn't seem to be related to biological evolution or the theory of evolution. Biological evolution is a process that occurs in all populations of living organisms. It isn't something that can be 'introduced' to environments, it is characteristic of populations of living things.

Gottservant · May 18, 2020

FrumiousBandersnatch said:
I don't know what you mean by 'Evolution', but it doesn't seem to be related to biological evolution or the theory of evolution. Biological evolution is a process that occurs in all populations of living organisms. It isn't something that can be 'introduced' to environments, it is characteristic of populations of living things.

Don't just pull my chain, mate.

Creatures only exist because they exist in sustainable environments.

For every population that you say is evolved, there is another population in the same environment, that is able to just live in that environment - without invoking Evolution, or a theory, or what ever you want.

You may want to glorify the creation and not the Creator, but you can't have faith and not a foundation.

Gottservant · May 18, 2020

I know what this is.

It's a game.

You're trying to catch the walk, for the sake of the talk.

You're trying to say "I know how your feet work, so I'll do the talking with my mouth (not yours)".

You've forgot to make sure you know the reason, for your own faith!

FrumiousBandersnatch · May 18, 2020

Gottservant said:
For every population that you say is evolved, there is another population in the same environment, that is able to just live in that environment - without invoking Evolution, or a theory, or what ever you want.

All populations have evolved and are evolving. Like it or not, mutations are a fact of life.

Subduction Zone · May 18, 2020

Gottservant said:
I know what this is.

It's a game.

You're trying to catch the walk, for the sake of the talk.

You're trying to say "I know how your feet work, so I'll do the talking with my mouth (not yours)".

You've forgot to make sure you know the reason, for your own faith!

No, it is rather clear that you do not understand the English language since your posts make no sense. When a person makes up their own meanings for terminology they have no grounds for complaint when no one else understands them.

Warden_of_the_Storm · May 18, 2020

Gottservant said:
I know what this is.

It's a game.

You're trying to catch the walk, for the sake of the talk.

You're trying to say "I know how your feet work, so I'll do the talking with my mouth (not yours)".

You've forgot to make sure you know the reason, for your own faith!

No, all it is is that you don't understand squat about evolution and you have no desire to learn, so you can keep making these threads.

Gottservant · May 18, 2020

FrumiousBandersnatch said:
All populations have evolved and are evolving. Like it or not, mutations are a fact of life.

Yes, but even Darwin - Charles Darwin - said it mattered what environment they were in when they evolved.

Mutations in one environment, may be completely different in another.

You want me to bite? But I'm not biting - I'm just giving you straight up Evolution.

Shemjaza · May 18, 2020

Gottservant said:
You are innocent of being called wilfully ignorant, I get that - but "faith" is something you have even when you have nothing else. It's not something that gets forgotten, if proof delivers you eggs instead of milk.

If everyone has faith, then how can there be a substitute for faith?

My point is that evolution doesn't change depending what you have faith in.

If you have faith in Creationism, then you don't think the conclusions of evolution are true, but that doesn't change what those conclusions are.

If you have whatever you think my faith is, then I accept that evolution is true... but that in and of itself doesn't change the theory.

Gottservant said:
What I mean by "sustainable environment" is that when you first started to believe in Evolution, you did so in a particular environment. That environment was there, when you were busily populating your mind with ideas about how Evolution worked and what it worked for. Then you decided you "knew" what Evolution meant, and you stopped questioning it, and its relationship to that environment, which you felt had perhaps power, perhaps something else.

But there were other "environments" out there, to which Evolution could be introduced, with reference to the first understanding you had of Evolution, in a best case scenario. The point being, you were relying on Evolution being a sustainable concept, for the environment in which you found it and on the basis of that faith alone (the emphasis on faith) what you may not have realised, is that that same concept of Evolution, may be responsible to, or for or with, other environments - no selection pressure exists, without existing in a sustainable environment, for that "selection pressure".

That's what I mean when I say "sustainable environment".

I think you are using terms created to describe living things in the physical in to describe ideas and thoughts.

This seems both not useful and confusing.

The theory of evolution isn't an idea that just exists as something to define our world view. It is derived from evidence in the physical world. It's an explanation for evidence, not an ethical or metaphysical framwork.

Gottservant said:
You cannot exist as yourself, if you are dependent on an environment and that environment does not exist.

If there were no environment in which Evolution was true, Evolution would cease to exist (as a concept, in principle).

The mental structures that allow evolution to exist as a concept are the ability to understand the physical world, and the ability to infer past events from remaining evidence.

Also, an idea can exist even if it is impossible.

Gottservant said:
If you can stipulate where Evolution does and does not exist, you are able to create a working model of Evolution - not just a theory.

A scientific theory is a working model.

If evolution the idea didn't exist that wouldn't change if the physical process of evolution existed in the world.

Gottservant said:
Birds create nests. Snakes develop venom.

What you do with what I say, is up to you?

I don't understand the relevance.

Warden_of_the_Storm · May 18, 2020

Gottservant said:
Yes, but even Darwin - Charles Darwin - said it mattered what environment they were in when they evolved.

Mutations in one environment, may be completely different in another.

You want me to bite? But I'm not biting - I'm just giving you straight up Evolution.

Congrats! You actually got something about evolution right.
Does not make up for the fact that everything else you write about what you think evolution is is absolutely wrong.

Shemjaza · May 18, 2020

Gottservant said:
Yes, but even Darwin - Charles Darwin - said it mattered what environment they were in when they evolved.

Mutations in one environment, may be completely different in another.

You want me to bite? But I'm not biting - I'm just giving you straight up Evolution.

You are correct.

But earlier you were talking about internal environments of ideas and beliefs... which is a different thing to plants and animals living the world.

OldWiseGuy · May 18, 2020

Shemjaza said:
What do you mean by "sustainable environment" and what does it have to do with faith?

I think he means your 'faith' in evolution, which hasn't seemed to help the environment very much. It's hard to see the big picture through a microscope.

How do we make sustainable environments? Is "Evolution" always the most applicable?

Regular Member

God loves your words, may men love them also

Regular Member

Well-Known Member

God loves your words, may men love them also

Well-Known Member

God loves your words, may men love them also

God loves your words, may men love them also

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

God loves your words, may men love them also

God loves your words, may men love them also

Well-Known Member

Regular Member

Well-Known Member

God loves your words, may men love them also

Regular Member

Well-Known Member

Regular Member

Wake me when it's soup.

Similar threads