The Olivet Discourse

Davy · May 17, 2020

mkgal1 said:
Lost for Words is right (and that's not a belief that's exclusive to Full Preterism). The belief that Jesus (God) is reigning is also not a belief that's exclusive to FP - it's a belief the church has held from the very beginning:

....

That's an 'affirmation', and not Scripture interpretation allowing God's Word to interpret itself. Christ will have a literal Kingdom manifested here on earth with His reign with His elect at Jerusalem, on earth. That REQUIRES His literal return back to this earth, which is written.

Do you know what an affirmation is? It's a statement assuming something is so when it has not really been proven. It's what old 1970's books on the power of positive thinking was based on. We can make all sorts of assumptions about things, but that doesn't necessarily make them true.

Here's one of the many Bible Scriptures you are fighting against...

Zech 14:1-5
14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee.
KJV

Zech 14:8-9
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and His name one.
KJV

Zech 14:16-17
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
KJV

That has NEVER happened yet, not even to this day.

Davy · May 17, 2020

mkgal1 said:
No, I wasn't kidding.

Yeah, you were kidding, because you can't apply the terms like "Son of man" and "coming back" as requirements for your challenge, even though it's an easy challenge...

Luke 21:26-28
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
KJV

Luke 18:8
8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
KJV

Luke 17:26-30
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
KJV

Luke 12:40
40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
KJV

Davy · May 17, 2020

claninja said:
incorrect, its about the 1st century destruction of the temple in Jerusalem

That's Biblical ignorance, simply because they were asking Jesus about the time of His 2nd coming! To hold to your theory from men it would have to mean Jesus' 2nd coming happened back in the Apostle's days, which is really a stupid idea, since His time with them was His 1st coming. It's not difficult to see the children of darkness at work with such false doctrines against God's written Word.

claninja · May 17, 2020

Davy said:
That's Biblical ignorance, simply because they were asking Jesus about the time of His 2nd coming! To hold to your theory from men it would have to mean Jesus' 2nd coming happened back in the Apostle's days, which is really a stupid idea, since His time with them was His 1st coming. It's not difficult to see the children of darkness at work with such false doctrines against God's written Word.

Ok Davy. You are entitled to your opinion.

Davy · May 17, 2020

claninja said:
Ok Davy. You are entitled to your opinion.

Not opinion, it's simple common sense. The Old Testament prophets were given to prophesy of Christ's 2 advents (comings). The 1st one was to come meek as a Lamb to die on the cross. The 2nd one is about His return wielding a sword to subdue all nations, and that has not yet happened even today, much less back in the Apostle's days. So you're saying that is my opinion, when it is actually God's Word as written, makes you appear all the more foolish.

claninja · May 17, 2020

Davy said:
Not opinion, it's simple common sense. The Old Testament prophets were given to prophesy of Christ's 2 advents (comings). The 1st one was to come meek as a Lamb to die on the cross. The 2nd one is about His return wielding a sword to subdue all nations, and that has not yet happened even today, much less back in the Apostle's days. So you're saying that is my opinion, when it is actually God's Word as written, makes you appear all the more foolish.

Sure Davy

mkgal1 · May 17, 2020

Davy said:
Yeah, you were kidding, because you can't apply the terms like "Son of man" and "coming back" as requirements for your challenge, even though it's an easy challenge...

Luke 21:26-28
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
KJV

Luke 18:8
8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
KJV

Luke 17:26-30
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
KJV

Luke 12:40
40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
KJV

I think you misunderstood the point of my request.

You and SG are trying to apply your understanding to the text. The idea that "coming" = coming BACK. It's not there in the text. Instead, what I'm trying to point out is that "coming" refers to God's judgment and omnipotence being revealed.

mkgal1 · May 17, 2020

The Bible Project did a video on the Son of Man. I, personally, think it's well-done (and theologically correct):

mkgal1 · May 17, 2020

When the Pharisees asked Jesus about when the Kingdom of God was coming, He answered them this way (which supports what Lost for Words posted):

Luke 17:20-21 “…He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”

....and another passage that describes His Kingdom:

Colossians 1:13 “For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,”

sovereigngrace · May 17, 2020

claninja said:
The end of the age. What is it?

Matthew 24:3 While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?”

You and I agree it began at the cross:

Acts 2:16-17 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:‘ In the last days, God says, I will pour out My Spirit on all people.

Hebrews 9:26 Otherwise, Christ would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But now He has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

You and I agree that the apostles were living at the end of the ages

1 corinthians 10:11 Now these things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come

1 John 2:18 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. This is how we know it is the last hour.

I believe it to be the end of the old covenant age, as obsolete old covenant was ready to vanish away, and Jesus ties the end to the destruction of the temple. This in fact was "at hand" and was to occur in the generation of Jesus' audience.

Matthew 24:2-3 But he answered them, “You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.” As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

Hebrews 8:13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Your argument is that the end of the ages has been going on for 2,000 years and will end at the at the destruction of the physical world. This is based on a literal reading of Peter's epistle

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the elements will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will not be found.

However, this poses several issues:

1. Peter states the end of all things was at hand. 2,000+ years later is not at hand. Therefore a literal rendering of 2 Peter 3:10, would contradict 1 Peter 4:7, as the destruction of the physical world was not, in fact, at hand.

1 Peter 4:7 The end of all things is at hand; therefore be self-controlled and sober-minded for the sake of your prayers.

2. James states the coming of the Lord was at hand. 2,000+ years later is not at hand.

James 5:8 You also, be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand.

3. Jesus stated the law would not pass away until the heaven and earth passed away. Are there parts of the Law that have not yet been accomplished?

Matthew 5:18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

The end of the physical world was not at hand in the 1st century. So what "end" was at hand in the first century?

Where you are getting confused is equating the last days (plural) with the last day (singular), the end times with the end of time. We have obviously not experienced the last day yet, as we still have time and days and are still anticipating the coming of Christ and the future general resurrection/judgment.

This age is identified with sin, corruption and death, the age to come is marked by perfection, glorification and eternality.

mkgal1 · May 17, 2020

Davy said:
There's still huge stones standing today in Jerusalem at the temple mount.

What you're referring to was Fort Antonia....not the Temple mount. Just as Jesus promised...."every stone was thrown down" from the Temple (in the lifetime of those He spoke to...also just as Jesus said).

mkgal1 · May 17, 2020

Double post

mkgal1 · May 17, 2020

Davy said:
His LITERAL physical Kingdom will manifest when He physically returns per His 2nd coming as written in Zechariah 14 and Acts 1

Jeremiah 22:28-30 ~"No man of his descendants will prosper sitting on the throne of David or ruling again in Judah"

Christ is a descendant of Jehoiachin and - according to this passage - no descendant of Jehoiachin can prosper on David's throne in Jerusalem. His kingdom/priesthood is not of this world. A physical kingdom would be against biblical prophecy.

Davy · May 17, 2020

mkgal1 said:
I think you misunderstood the point of my request.

You and SG are trying to apply your understanding to the text. The idea that "coming" = coming BACK. It's not there in the text. Instead, what I'm trying to point out is that "coming" refers to God's judgment and omnipotence being revealed.

Too bad you're all bogged down with textual arguments when Jesus made it very simple to understand (like in Zechariah 14 that I showed). Here's another example...

Acts 1:9-12
9 And when He had spoken these things, while they beheld, He was taken up; and a cloud received Him out of their sight.

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11 Which also said, "Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, Which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."

12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
KJV

Zechariah 14 shows Jesus coming in like manner as He ascended into Heaven, even to the very mount in Jerusalem where He ascended to Heaven from.

He declares this return in the clouds also in Revelation 1, and said every eye will see it, including those who pierced Him.

How is it that you have not read those Scriptures???

Davy · May 17, 2020

mkgal1 said:
When the Pharisees asked Jesus about when the Kingdom of God was coming, He answered them this way (which supports what Lost for Words posted):

Luke 17:20-21 “…He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”

....and another passage that describes His Kingdom:

Colossians 1:13 “For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,”

You just don't understand, your fleshy thinking is in your way.

The reason the Kingdom of God doesn't come with flesh seeing, which is what our Lord Jesus was pointing to by their question, is because the Kingdom of God is 'within' (KJV). The Greek for "within" is entos, meaning 'inside'.

Luke 17:21
21 Neither shall they say, 'Lo here! or, lo there!' for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
KJV

I wish you could understand that, but the god of this world has blinded many away from understanding about the world to come. That's right, God's Kingdom is not of... this present world (John 18:36; Luke 4). How could Christ's Kingdom come in the spiritual today then? It's because the "new creature" change happens WITHIN us, to our spirit inside, not to our flesh!. It happens by Faith on The Father through His Son Jesus Christ, and not by any other way.

Yet God said He didn't create this earth in vain, but to be inhabited, i.e., lived upon. And in God's Kingdom, in the world to come, His children will live upon it, but not in flesh bodies, but in the "spiritual body" that Apostle Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15. That world won't come with fleshy seeing, it will come at the twinkling of an eye on the last day of this world when Jesus returns. God is going to remove the veil covering the heavenly dimension off on the last day of this world. In our spiritual body we will be in it. That was our Lord Jesus' meaning, He just didn't explain it to the blind Pharisees, because really they had His Word; they should have been following it instead of making up their false traditions.

Davy · May 17, 2020

mkgal1 said:
What you're referring to was Fort Antonia....not the Temple mount. Just as Jesus promised...."every stone was thrown down" from the Temple (in the lifetime of those He spoke to...also just as Jesus said).

View attachment 277142

I think you have a problem with your cardinal points. That fort was on the NORTH.

The WESTERN Wall is called that because it's location is on the ....... side??? Duh!

Davy · May 17, 2020

mkgal1 said:
Jeremiah 22:28-30 ~"No man of his descendants will prosper sitting on the throne of David or ruling again in Judah"

Christ is a descendant of Jehoiachin and - according to this passage - no descendant of Jehoiachin can prosper on David's throne in Jerusalem. His kingdom/priesthood is not of this world. A physical kingdom would be against biblical prophecy.

What, specifically, are you referring to in Acts 1?

Christ's genealogy was thru Mary's lineage from Nathan given in Luke 3. Jeremiah 22:28-29 is pointing to Joseph's lineage through Solomon.

mkgal1 · May 18, 2020

Davy said:
I think you have a problem with your cardinal points. That fort was on the NORTH.

The WESTERN Wall is called that because it's location is on the ....... side??? Duh!

The western wall of Fort Antonia which was to the north of the Temple mount.

keras · May 18, 2020

I have been away for a few days.
I see that this thread has been well hi-jacked by the confused and deceived posters here.

It really isn't too hard to discern what Jesus said in His Olivet Discourse applied soon or for a distant future time. The Temple was totally destroyed in 70 AD; there is no sign of it there today.
I can confidently assert that all of what Jesus said has application to us today. Some as examples of what the Lord will allow to happen to those who reject Him and most for our information about future events.

For example; in Luke 21:25-26 He describes dramatic cosmic events, something that has not occurred yet, but are quite feasible to happen and are reiterated in many other prophesies. We should be aware and prepared for their fulfilment, as we see the preceding signs taking place; like the volatile situation in the Middle East and the softening up of the world population to dictatorial control.

pescador · May 18, 2020

Davy said:
Christ's Kingdom is both spiritual AND physical.

Only its spiritual manifestation is manifest today through His Church on earth. His LITERAL physical Kingdom will manifest when He physically returns per His 2nd coming as written in Zechariah 14 and Acts 1. Then He with His faithful elect will reign over ALL nations with "a rod of iron" per Psalms 2:9 and Revelation 2:27; Revelation 12:5; and Revelation 19:15.

Need a sample of that future reign with "a rod of iron"? It means...

1. no more communism
2. no more world socialism attempts by man
3. it means a world MONARCHY KINGDOM under Christ Jesus as KING.
4. no more military, no more war
5. no more hunger, no more thirst
6. no more false religion nor false gods, nor idol worship
7. ONLY worship of one GOD under Christ Jesus.
8. Christ reigns literally with His elect from... Jerusalem on earth.
9. ALL knees will bow to Christ Jesus.
10. those of the "synagogue of Satan" will be made to come worship Christ at the feet of His elect.
11. flesh death will be no more.
12. the dead in Christ will have been resurrected to their spiritual bodies.
13. the wicked dead will also have been resurrected to their spiritual bodies, but still subject to the "second death" later.
14. all alive on earth will have been 'changed' at the 'twinkling of an eye' to their spiritual bodies.

So in reality, the truly 'spiritual' kingdom has yet to come too, since on the day of Jesus' 2nd coming, man's time in a flesh body will be over.

And no more capitalism, thank God.

The Olivet Discourse

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His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Wise old man

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