Law of Moses: Ministry of Condemnation?

Mr. M

Well-Known Member
Mar 9, 2020
8,136
3,213
Prescott, Az
✟38,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
2 Corinthians 3:7-11. But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.


John 6:63. It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
 

Mr. M

Well-Known Member
Mar 9, 2020
8,136
3,213
Prescott, Az
✟38,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
Romans 2:
14 For whenever they of the nations that have no law, by nature may be doing that which the law demands, these, having no law, are a law to themselves, [functioning conscience].
15 who are displaying the action of the law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying together and their reckonings between one another, accusing or defending them,
16 in the day when God will be judging the hidden things of humanity, according to my evangel, through Jesus Christ." [Hours spent studying letters will not be a covering at The Judgment].
17 Lo! you are being denominated a Jew, and are resting on law,
and are boasting in God
, [not Israel].
18 and know the will, and are testing what things are of consequence, being instructed out of the law. [as opposed to the Spirit]
19 Besides, you have confidence in yourself to be a guide of the blind, a light of those in darkness,
[Those who have become experts show a marked self-confidence, not a boldness].
20 a discipliner of the imprudent, a teacher of minors, having the form of knowledge and the truth in the law.
[a knowledge about Truth is not the Spirit of Truth, it is the spirit of wanting to be right. Reliant on the Counselor is not reliant on knowledge of Torah].
21 You, then, who are teaching another, you are not teaching yourself! who are heralding not to be stealing, you are stealing! [teaching Law instead of liberty of conscience is stealing].
22 who are saying not to be committing adultery, you are committing adultery! who are abominating idols, you are despoiling the sanctuary!"
Romans 7:4. Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. [Commitment to Torah study instead of Faithfulness to the Spirit is adultery].
23 who are boasting in a law, through the transgression of the law you are dishonoring God!
24 For because of you the name of God is being blasphemed among the nations, according as it is written.
25 For circumcision, indeed, is benefiting if you should be putting law into practice, yet if you should be a transgressor of law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision."
[How is arguing about the Law for hours a day on a forum putting law into practice? Free your slaves!]
26 If the Uncircumcision, then, should be maintaining the just requirements of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be reckoned for circumcision? [work of conscience by the Holy Spirit= True circumcision].
27 And the Uncircumcision who, by nature, are discharging the law's demands, shall be judging you, who through letter and circumcision, are a transgressor of law." Seriously?
28 For not that which is apparent is the Jew, nor yet that which is apparent in flesh is circumcision;"
29 but that which is hidden is the Jew, and circumcision is of the heart, in spirit, not in letter, whose applause is not of men, but of God."
Psalm 83:3. They have taken crafty counsel against thy people,
and consulted against thy hidden ones.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Saint Steven
Upvote 0

Mr. M

Well-Known Member
Mar 9, 2020
8,136
3,213
Prescott, Az
✟38,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
2 Corinthians 3:6. Who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
We cannot fulfill the righteous requirements of the Law simply by studying Law and teaching others the requirements of the Law. We must be led by the Spirit. The Law Condemns, The Spirit convicts. You must know the difference...or have you been following the Spirit?
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Saint Steven
Upvote 0

Mr. M

Well-Known Member
Mar 9, 2020
8,136
3,213
Prescott, Az
✟38,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
John 20: (CLV).
21 Jesus, then, said to them again, "Peace to you! According as the Father has commissioned Me, I also am sending you."
22 And saying this, He exhales and is saying to them, "Get holy spirit!"
23 If you should be forgiving anyone's sins, they have been forgiven them. If anyone's you should be holding, they are held."
 
Upvote 0

Mr. M

Well-Known Member
Mar 9, 2020
8,136
3,213
Prescott, Az
✟38,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
)Read Aloud, that they may hear, and they may learn.
Deuteronomy 30:

10. If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

It is this book, and this book alone which is the basis for the covenant between Yahweh and the children of Israel who survive the wilderness trek. These devarim were read every seven years during the feast of booths. (see Nehemiah 8). The king was required to keep a copy with him at all times per chapter 17.

Deuteronomy 31:
9 And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and unto all the elders of Israel.
10 And Moses commanded them, saying, At the end of every seven years, in the solemnity of the year of release, in the feast of tabernacles,
11 When all Israel is come to appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose, thou shalt read this law before all Israel in their hearing.
12 Gather the people together, men, and women, and children, and thy stranger that is within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the LORD your God, and observe to do all the words of this law:
13 And that their children, which have not known may hear, and learn to fear the LORD your God, as long as ye live in the land whither ye go over Jordan to possess it.

It is this book alone that was placed inside the Ark of the Covenant.
26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

It is this book alone that Yahweh references in confirming Joshua.
Joshua 1:8. This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.

And now Paul uses the above verses to teach on faith.
Romans 10:
5 For Moses describes the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above)
7Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9T hat if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Saint Steven

You can call me Steve
Site Supporter
Jul 2, 2018
18,580
11,385
Minneapolis, MN
✟930,116.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Yes, the transitory ministry that brought condemnation and death.

Assuming that the Ten Commandments were "engraved in letters on stone"...
... then they were the transitory ministry that brought condemnation and death which has no glory now. Other than that, totally awesome. - lol
The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

2 Corinthians 3:6-11
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr. M
Upvote 0

Mr. M

Well-Known Member
Mar 9, 2020
8,136
3,213
Prescott, Az
✟38,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
Did Paul demand that the churches learn the law of Moses, or was his focus establishing the new traditions for the body of Christ to walk in by faith, under the direction of the Holy Spirit?
1 Corinthians 11:1, 2. Imitate me, just as I also Christ. Now I praise you, brethren,
that you remember me in all things and keep the traditions just as I delivered to you.

Paul instructed the churches on how to rightly function as a church; not a nation united under a Law
that governed everything from land management and animal husbandry, to the relationship with neighboring nations. This Law of Moses was never the focus of the birthing of the body of Christ among the nations. All scripture, when available was valuable for instruction (towrah), but were not statutes and commands for the believer's fellowship.
Keep the traditions just as I delivered to you.

2 Thessalonians 2:15. Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions
which you have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
2 Thessalonians 3:6.
Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

The apostles were tasked with establishing new traditions based on better promises. Replacing the traditions that were derived through the Talmudic interpretations of Mosaic Code.
Galatians 1:11-14. But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ. For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it. And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers.

Many large Christian organizations have established themselves on traditions of men that vary significantly from the apostolic doctrine. This resulted from the influence of "rudiments of the world."
Colossians 2:8. Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit,
after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Philippians 3:
3
For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh,
4 though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so:
5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee;
6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness in the law, blameless.
7
But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ.
8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ
9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;
10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death,
11 if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
 
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,433
4,605
Hudson
✟284,322.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
2 Corinthians 3:7-11. But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.


John 6:63. It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

The fact that it is a ministry of death for those who refuse to submit to it is not a very good reason to do that.

Romans 2:
14 For whenever they of the nations that have no law, by nature may be doing that which the law demands, these, having no law, are a law to themselves, [functioning conscience].
15 who are displaying the action of the law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying together and their reckonings between one another, accusing or defending them,
16 in the day when God will be judging the hidden things of humanity, according to my evangel, through Jesus Christ." [Hours spent studying letters will not be a covering at The Judgment].
17 Lo! you are being denominated a Jew, and are resting on law,
and are boasting in God
, [not Israel].
18 and know the will, and are testing what things are of consequence, being instructed out of the law. [as opposed to the Spirit]
19 Besides, you have confidence in yourself to be a guide of the blind, a light of those in darkness,
[Those who have become experts show a marked self-confidence, not a boldness].
20 a discipliner of the imprudent, a teacher of minors, having the form of knowledge and the truth in the law.
[a knowledge about Truth is not the Spirit of Truth, it is the spirit of wanting to be right. Reliant on the Counselor is not reliant on knowledge of Torah].
21 You, then, who are teaching another, you are not teaching yourself! who are heralding not to be stealing, you are stealing! [teaching Law instead of liberty of conscience is stealing].
22 who are saying not to be committing adultery, you are committing adultery! who are abominating idols, you are despoiling the sanctuary!"
Romans 7:4. Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. [Commitment to Torah study instead of Faithfulness to the Spirit is adultery].
23 who are boasting in a law, through the transgression of the law you are dishonoring God!
24 For because of you the name of God is being blasphemed among the nations, according as it is written.
25 For circumcision, indeed, is benefiting if you should be putting law into practice, yet if you should be a transgressor of law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision."
[How is arguing about the Law for hours a day on a forum putting law into practice? Free your slaves!]
26 If the Uncircumcision, then, should be maintaining the just requirements of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be reckoned for circumcision? [work of conscience by the Holy Spirit= True circumcision].
27 And the Uncircumcision who, by nature, are discharging the law's demands, shall be judging you, who through letter and circumcision, are a transgressor of law." Seriously?
28 For not that which is apparent is the Jew, nor yet that which is apparent in flesh is circumcision;"
29 but that which is hidden is the Jew, and circumcision is of the heart, in spirit, not in letter, whose applause is not of men, but of God."
Psalm 83:3. They have taken crafty counsel against thy people,
and consulted against thy hidden ones.

In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Mosaic Law, so only those who have faith in God to guide us in how to rightly live will obey His law and will be justified by that same faith, which is why Paul said in Romans 2:13 that only doers of the law will be justified, but did not say that we earn our justification by obeying the law. Furthermore, that is why you shouldn't try to make the rest of the chapter be against doing the law. In Romans 2:14, believing Gentiles will by nature do the things that the Mosaic Law requires.

Romans 2:26, the way to recognize that a Gentile has a curcumcised heart is by observing their obedience to the Mosaic Law, which is the same way to tell for a Jew. In Jeremiah 9:1-26, Deuteronomy 6:4-7, 10:12-22, 30:1-16, Acts 7:51-53, and Romans 2:26-29, obedience to the Mosaic Law is associated with having a circumcised heart, with knowing God, with walking in God's ways, and with loving God with all of our heart and soul, while forsaking the Mosaic Law is associated with having an uncircumcised heart and refusing to know God.

The Spirit has the role of leading us in truth (John 16:3), the Spirit had the role of leading us to obey God's law (Ezekiel 36:26-27), and God's law is truth (Psalms 119:142). Jesus set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, so he is the personification of that way, truth, and life (John 14:6). In 2 Timothy 3:8, those who oppose Moses also oppose the truth, being of corrupted minds and disqualified in regard to the faith. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who refuse to submit to God's law. In Galatians 5:19-22, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic Law, while all of the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it.
 
Upvote 0