Book of Enoch

ewq1938 said:

As much as they do now.

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That's not true.

mindlight said:

The book of Enoch is quite an edifying read. It is regarded as canonical in Ethiopia and Eritrean Christian traditions. But it was not accepted for inclusion in the main Christian churches as canonical scripture. However the book of Jude 1:14-15 quotes from it directly.

1) Why was it rejected?

2) How useful do you think it could be and how reliable should we regard what it says?

3) Was it a write up of an original work by Enoch from before the flood? Or was it a later fabrication?

4) Do its prophecies about Jesus lend it extra authority

http://www.hermetics.org/pdf/bookenoch.pdf

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Enoch

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It’s a fairy tale.

HTacianas said:

The problem with the book of Enoch is that it isn't a single book. It's a compilation of several books. No one knows where each of them begin or end, if they are complete, etc.

Jude may quote from Enoch, but no one knows which book he considered worth quoting from. But he also may be simply quoting something he had heard and was considered common knowledge of the time. If we read someone who quotes some proverb of Benjamin Franklin, it doesn't necessarily mean he has ever read Franklin, as Franklin's sayings are well known.

But Enoch, as it exists today, is a great read.

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Jude quoted a prophesy Enoch made. There is no mention of a “book of Enoch” in Jude.

Jude1:3Contendforthefaith said:

It IS for This Ancient Apostolic and Oriental Orthodox Church: The Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church

https://www.ethiopianorthodox.org/english/canonical/books.html

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Shall we also include yourself in that list?

HTacianas said:

That it is not scripture doesn't mean it isn't a good read. There are any number of books that aren't scripture, but serve to give some insights into the beliefs of some Jews of the time and especially the early church.

Depending on its dating, the Assumption of Mary can at least tell how early the belief in her assumption is. It does not serve to validate the belief, it only helps to attach a time frame to it .

Some others, the Shepherd of Hermes for example, also show some of the beliefs of early Christians, but it, like many others, contain some beliefs later denounced as heresy.

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I think the point of the OP is why isn’t included in the bible, he seems to imply that it should be. It’s not a particularly good read in my opinion. But so what.

jhwatts said:

Its content is in scripture.

For example. Romans 1: (18-32)

The ones at the creation of the world, "they", the ones who corrupted the image of God ( Genesis 1:26) into an image like beast.

The scripture in Romans 1 describes how it was done and it is in the way it is described in the Book of Enoch.

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Romans 1 is discussing the sins of mankind with a special feature on lesbianism and homosexuality. It has nothing to do with Genesis and or “The Nephalim”

The pre fall Adam was the only man created in the image of God. Not you and I.

McGlint said:

Romans 1 is discussing the sins of mankind with a special feature on lesbianism and homosexuality. It has nothing to do with Genesis and or “The Nephalim”

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It's pretty clear. It has a lot to do with the creation of the world (Romans 1:20) and Paul is talking about a specific event and it is always portrayed as past tense. For example, "when the knew God" is referring to the past.

McGlint said:

The pre fall Adam was the only man created in the image of God. Not you and I.

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There are two Adam's and two creations. One creation and then a re-creation. The apear out of order when reading the text line by line.

The Bible clearly states that when the Adam that fell was created he was made from the dust of the earth and have the breath of life in him (Genesis 2:7). The Adam that was made in the image of God (Genesis 1:27) was not made from the dust of the earth.

The Adam made from the dust of the earth had access to the tree of life until the fall. Looking at Genesis 4 we see this makes sense because the genealogy of those in Eden had no ages or times associated with them.

Those made in the image of God are after the fall and now age with time. See Genesis 5. That is why these are told to replenish the earth in Genesis 1:27, they have to replaced the first Adam and his offspring made from the dust of the earth.

This goes much further and much deeper. Lets take the flood for an example.

Genesis 7: (13-15)(KJV) 13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark; 14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort. 15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

Notice Noah and his family and those from the first creation "after his kind" went into the ark the same day, while those from the first creation, Genesis 1:27, ("wherein is the breath of life") went in after Noah who was already there.
Let's look at Genesis 6.

Genesis 6: (1-4)(KJV) 1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. 3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. 4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Look at verse 3. We see that God has limited mans life to 120 years. When did this occur? Man's life was shortened after the fall. So "in those days" corresponds to Eden and the Adam of Eden and "after that" corresponds to the Adam of the second creation or the creation that no longer has access to the tree of life. This is the time of the union between the sons of God and the daughters of men.

We can verify this further from Jude. When Jude is discussing the things in the book of Enoch he declares Enoch being 7th from Adam (Jude 1:4). This is why the Enoch Jude is talking about is the one from Genesis 5 and not Genesis 4. The things Enoch recorded had taken place during the second creation or simply the creation after the fall.

To understand how Genesis was written, it helps to go to Genesis 10.

Genesis 10: (8-10) 8 And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth. 9 He was a mighty hunter before the Lord: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the Lord. 10 And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar.

We see in Genesis 10 that a statement is made about the creation of Nimrods kingdom. The details about his kingdom occurs further over in the next chapter not directly after it.

Genesis 11: (1-9)
1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech. 2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there. * 3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter. 4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth. 5 And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. 6 And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. 7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. 8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city. 9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the Lord scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

The same thing is going on in Genesis 1 and 2.

We see the statement.
Genesis 1:1(KJV) 1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

then wee see the detail begin in the chapter over.

Genesis 2:4(KJV) 4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

this then continues to Genesis 4:26 and like Genesis 10 and 11 we have to jump back to Genesis 1:2 to get the rest of the story.

Oh, but this gets much deeper. Remember Genesis 6 the union of the sons of God and the daughters of men made "mighty men" and "had children to them" Look back at Genesis 10, Nimrod was called "mighty" on more than one occasion and look at Genesis 11:5. We see the tower was built by these "children" of men. Oh yes, these are the offspring but it goes much deeper.

But I'm going to stop now. I have some thing I have to go do.

dreadnought said:

People are always arguing that we should add this book or add that book to the Bible. It's pretty long already, though, don't you think? Does Enoch tell us anything that we need to know, that isn't already included in the Bible?

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Yes, if you want to know the foundational doctrines that the Law and the Prophets make reference to but do not relay, because they are already laid down by Enoch the prophet, the 7th from Adam.

McGlint said:

Romans 1 is discussing the sins of mankind with a special feature on lesbianism and homosexuality. It has nothing to do with Genesis and or “The Nephalim”

The pre fall Adam was the only man created in the image of God. Not you and I.

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"You err, not knowing the Scripture..."
We are all Adam, as to our kind, and made in the very image (hebrew "tselem"), of Him who was to come.
The Second creation human being man is God the Word, come in new creation flesh, which flesh He put on like a garment as it was created new, in the womb of the virgin.
Romans 5:14 states Adam was made in the "tupos", "exact image" of Him who was to come.
Adam is the name of the first creation which is dead in spirit to the presence of the Glory since the fall. We are all the race called "Adam", made male and female, and no longer sons of God since the defilement of the flesh in the Garden.

Israel is the name of the Redeemer/Kinsman as to His flesh garment. By putting on the the New Creation flesh created new in the womb of the virgin, He reverse adopted Himself into the Adam race, so as to be the Redeemer/Kinsman of His human being "brother".
Isaiah 49, Isaiah 59, Genesis 1:26-27.
He is come in the likeness of Adam, and Adam was made in that Likeness.
He is come in that same likeness, but without sin, to be brother to Adam; the Firstborn of earth as a human being, to ransom back what the former firstborn human being creation sold into the captivity of sin, corruption and death.

For GOD to have made two creations is to imply that GOD, made a mistake, and scrapped the supposed ¨first creation¨"and recreated a new species of man...

But, there is only one species of man...and Adam, the first man, (was of flesh, perishable) and Christ, the Last Adam ( became for the children (who are of perishable seed/flesh) a life giving spirit)