God as much of a woman as a man

GaveMeJoy said:

False. It is absolutely clear that God is a spirit and therefore does not have a sex. It is impossible for him to be male. Period

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2 Corinthians 6:18: "And I will be a father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to me, says the Lord Almighty."

1 John 3:1 "See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him."

Proverbs 3:11-12 "My son, do not despise the Lord’s discipline, and do not resent his rebuke"

Just because God doesn't have sex doesn't mean he isn't male. Does that mean all celibates are genderless in your eyes? All through the bible God is referred to with male pronouns, Adam is made to be exactly in God's likeness, and he is recognized as our FATHER. His spirituality does not erase that

shineyourlight said:

I think all of you are wonderful <3

Let's take a moment and eat some cookies.

An extreme oreo stuffed peanut butter cookie. (An Oreo inside of a peanut butter cookie that I also filled with Reese’s Peanut Butter Cups).

Now, carry on.

View attachment 276999

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aw very wholesome amidst all this debate, much love

Ethalee said:

aw very wholesome amidst all this debate, much love

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No one can be angry when there are cookies here.

GaveMeJoy said:

Do you have a problem with my perspective here shared (other than my Lame jokes) or is it acceptable theologically.

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It's blaspheme

Friendly reminder before I part ways on this thread

Remember to always be compassionate, view each other higher than yourselves, and continue to build each other up.

Remember what your Father has taught you.



I appreciate you all!

Paidiske said:

Sex (the male/female binary) is a function of biology. Since God is not biological, I agree that it is correct to say that God in Godself does not have sex or gender. (Of course the incarnate Christ was male, but the important thing is not Christ's maleness, but Christ's humanity).

That said, I wouldn't use the term "goddess," not least because of its Pagan connotations.

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The fact that male and female is an innate biological difference between us is irrelevant. God made Adam to be in his image (a male one). Also God holds authority over us, which the bible recognises to be an exclusively male role. He encourages the men of this Earth to behave like him in that they lead the home and guide women, whilst he leads all of us in spirit (the well known family umbrella structure)

"Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands." - Ephesians 5:22-24

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet" 1 Timothy 2:12

There is clear parallels with the man's role and God's role. The man leads his woman, God leads the man etc. To dismiss God's male pronouns as OP has done solely because the society is patriarchal is absurd because the bible encourages healthy patriarchal structures and it is pretty clear that God created men to be like him. It's also claiming the bible to be inaccurate and therefore cherrypicking what parts of the bible we should accept, which I shouldn't have to explain why the bible in it's original form is infallible or should be in eyes of Christians.

God's human form that walked among us, Jesus Christ, was also male for a reason.

God is a man.

ewq1938 said:

Why? Isn't that just a limitation of our own perceptions of what it is to be male? God was male before anything else existed.

Also, the bible mentions spirits (ghosts) and my Grandmother saw a male ghost once. Maleness is not limited to a physical body.

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^ This 100%. Spirituality does not disprove maleness. Not to mention God has had human forms all of which are male.

Sparagmos said:

Well, yes. Christians generally pick and choose parts of scripture to take literally, parts to ignore, parts to say don’t apply to us, and parts to obsess over.

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I don't know of a single Christian denomination which denies the virgin birth. That puts you way outside on the fringe.

shineyourlight said:

An extreme oreo stuffed peanut butter cookie. (An Oreo inside of a peanut butter cookie that I also filled with Reese’s Peanut Butter Cups).

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Is that even legal?

prodromos said:

I don't know of a single Christian denomination which denies the virgin birth.

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Well, many liberal Protestants do. The original "fundamentalist" movement, over a century ago, was intended to defend that doctrine, among others.

prodromos said:

Peter doesn't say women are weaker, he tells men to be understanding towards their wives, as towards someone weaker. So in like manner as you would treat someone weaker, so treat your wives. It is an instruction on how to behave, it isn't declaring women as weaker.

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Good, though subtle, point.

Radagast said:

Well, many liberal Protestants do. The original "fundamentalist" movement, over a century ago, was intended to defend that doctrine, among others.

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My view is that it is extremely difficult to make sense of the atonement if you don't have the incarnation sorted out.

Philip_B said:

My view is that it is extremely difficult to make sense of the atonement if you don't have the incarnation sorted out.

Adam - Man made out of dust
Eve - Woman made from Man
Jesus - Man made from Woman

And we all return to the dust from whence Adam come to be raised with Jesus in the life that reaches beyond the grave.​

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Exactly.

This cartoon, from 1922, indicates what the original "fundamentalists" were against.

It was prescient; several "mainline" clergypeople, like John Shuck in the PC(USA) and Gretta Vosper in the United Church of Canada, have traversed all the steps and have declared themselves to be fully atheist.

Ethalee said:

The fact that male and female is an innate biological difference between us is irrelevant. God made Adam to be in his image (a male one). Also God holds authority over us, which the bible recognises to be an exclusively male role. He encourages the men of this Earth to behave like him in that they lead the home and guide women, whilst he leads all of us in spirit (the well known family umbrella structure)

"Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands." - Ephesians 5:22-24

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet" 1 Timothy 2:12

There is clear parallels with the man's role and God's role. The man leads his woman, God leads the man etc. To dismiss God's male pronouns as OP has done solely because the society is patriarchal is absurd because the bible encourages healthy patriarchal structures and it is pretty clear that God created men to be like him. It's also claiming the bible to be inaccurate and therefore cherrypicking what parts of the bible we should accept, which I shouldn't have to explain why the bible in it's original form is infallible or should be in eyes of Christians.

God's human form that walked among us, Jesus Christ, was also male for a reason.

God is a man.

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I have been away for a couple of days, it's late here, and I don't have time to respond to this in full.

In short, though, I basically completely disagree with you on every point. God is not a man. Authority does not belong exclusively to men. And patriarchy is a dangerous and damaging way to structure society, a result of the fall and not at all what God intended for his good creation.

Scripture specifically says that God is not a man (Numbers 23:19) most likely because a man is a created being and God is not.

GaveMeJoy said:

Disclaimer to male readers: I am a straight and manly 6 foot 200 pound man, who is red blooded and I am not a progressive or “feminist” or liberal. It’s ok to keep reading and not just dismiss it because you think I’m a woman.

God is a spirit being. God had no gender or physical representation. While Jesus manifested as a male human, he existed as a member of the triune God for eternity before creation.
While it can be argued Jesus is entirely male, there is no scriptural defense for the position that God is male in any way.


The scriptures use the male pronoun to refer to God by default, through translation, and because the scriptures were written in patriarchal societies where the male pronoun would be used for a deity.

As Goddess is a spirit and gender free, she does not have a gender.

The previous sentence sounds weird and is inaccurate. It also doesn’t use common scriptural male terms for God so it feels uncomfortable. However, it is equally as inaccurate as the following sentence:

As God is a spirit and gender free he does not have a gender.

God is not male. It’s OK to admit it, it won’t make you turn blue.

but seriously, where am I wrong, any scripture to demonstrate God is male? Do you have a problem with my perspective here shared (other than my Lame jokes) or is it acceptable theologically.

thanks! I’m mostly trying this out because I want to talk to my pastor about it but I don’t want to miss anything important. Thanks!

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God the Father is Spirit. But even setting that aside, think like a Hebrew.

Elohim (the common title for God the Father) is plural - and can be males, females, or a mixed group.

Jesus was and is, of course, male.

The noun, Ruach HaKedosh, the Holy Spirit, is a feminine noun.

God is neither a "god" or a "Goddess." We say "He" out of tradition. It's a silly thing to argue about. God is neither, and both.

Sparagmos said:

Wow, so I’m weaker physically and spiritually! How about mentally? Am I mentally weaker as well?

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Welcome to the dark ages.

Paidiske said:

In short, though, I basically completely disagree with you on every point. God is not a man. Authority does not belong exclusively to men. And patriarchy is a dangerous and damaging way to structure society, a result of the fall and not at all what God intended for his good creation.

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Then what you believe is in full counter to Christianity and even the fundamentals of a stable society itself. Not only is it counter to the following verses and Christianity itself.
Ephesians 5:22-24
1 Timothy 2:11-15
1 Corinthians 11:3-16
Colossians 3:18
1 Peter 3:1-6
Titus 2:4-5
By saying patriarchy is dangerous and damaging to society, is an ACTUALLY dangerous Marxist Teaching which was designed to break down the family and is also anti-science, which contrary to some Christians beliefs, science is on our side if we know how to use it and understand data.

The reason why our current society is broken down so much is because of a lack of patriarchy and a breakdown of the family, and the massive amounts of Anti-Christian messages, clearly, even in the Churches and Religious institutions themselves.

OrdineeeBe said:

Then what you believe is in full counter to Christianity and even the fundamentals of a stable society itself. Not only is it counter to the following verses and Christianity itself.
Ephesians 5:22-24
1 Timothy 2:11-15
1 Corinthians 11:3-16
Colossians 3:18
1 Peter 3:1-6
Titus 2:4-5
By saying patriarchy is dangerous and damaging to society, is an ACTUALLY dangerous Marxist Teaching which was designed to break down the family and is also anti-science, which contrary to some Christians beliefs, science is on our side if we know how to use it and understand data.

The reason why our current society is broken down so much is because of a lack of patriarchy and a breakdown of the family, and the massive amounts of Anti-Christian messages, clearly, even in the Churches and Religious institutions themselves.

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My understanding is that the reason why our current society is broken down is because in Adam all die (1 Corinthians 15:22) and this world is destined to be burned (2 Peter 3:7) and that this world will pass away (Revelation 21:1) and that while it isn’t incorrect to say that society has significant problems, there wasn’t a specific year in human history when the world was any less fallen, so it’s not wise to look back (Ecclesiastes 7:10) because the Kingdom that I actually truly long for in my heart is not part of this world (John 18:36).

I feel the need to clarify really I don’t think you’re wrong for criticising things that are bad, and that everyone does have a valid role to play and that neglecting the feminine role in favour of everyone trying to have the masculine isn’t good.

I was focusing more on reframing the “signs of the times” away from “how terrible for society” and toward the comfort of knowing it’s almost over.

Your role as a man is valid and good. My role as a woman is valid and good. And yet it’s also good to number our days and realise these tents are temporary.

If anything, the challenging thing for me is whether it’s better to remain silent if I perceive something is wrong. That it’s better to silently pray for someone to see that what they’re doing is wrong than to say it. Then I have to reconcile that in my heart, how to watch people without judging or correcting them, but take that vow of silence to leave it entirely in God’s hands, that God can work in the hearts of people even without another human verbally telling them a thing.

Obviously since I’m still communicating here I’m not there yet but that’s probably the next step in letting go. James 3:8 is a good start to at least understanding but being in the middle of this world and maintaining silence is so valid and I do pray for the strength to take those next steps when it’s time.

Peace to you.

Philip_B said:

My view is that it is extremely difficult to make sense of the atonement if you don't have the incarnation sorted out.

Adam - Man made out of dust
Eve - Woman made from Man
Jesus - Man made from Woman

And we all return to the dust from whence Adam come to be raised with Jesus in the life that reaches beyond the grave.​

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I would rephrase this

Jesus - Man assumed from Woman. Son assumed flesh and bones through St.Mary, Bearer of God.