God as much of a woman as a man

PloverWing · May 15, 2020

Sam81 said:
For the last time, only the man is made in God's image. The woman is made in the image of man.

If you truly believe this -- that the qualities that separate humans from the other animals belong only to men and not to women -- then it makes sense that you would think that God is male.

You must understand how deeply offensive it is to classify women with the non-human animals in this way. And, as others have observed, you are setting aside the Genesis stories in order to focus on a difficult-to-interpret passage from St. Paul.

You still have not successfully argued that God has gender, so that is a gap in the argument. But if you assert that God has gender, and if you assert that maleness is superior to femaleness, then I can see how you would conclude that God is male.

GaveMeJoy · May 15, 2020

Sam81 said:
God is not referred to as a male simply because of the type of society in which the Bible was written. The Bible is the inspired inerrant word of God. It will say the truth regardless of anything
...it is not dependent upon any exterior factors. God is masculine and Father. Period.

The Holy Spirit and in some cases God is described with feminine descriptors

Ethalee · May 15, 2020

GaveMeJoy said:
Disclaimer to male readers: I am a straight and manly 6 foot 200 pound man, who is red blooded and I am not a progressive or “feminist” or liberal. It’s ok to keep reading and not just dismiss it because you think I’m a woman.

God is a spirit being. God had no gender or physical representation. While Jesus manifested as a male human, he existed as a member of the triune God for eternity before creation.
While it can be argued Jesus is entirely male, there is no scriptural defense for the position that God is male in any way.

The scriptures use the male pronoun to refer to God by default, through translation, and because the scriptures were written in patriarchal societies where the male pronoun would be used for a deity.

As Goddess is a spirit and gender free, she does not have a gender.

The previous sentence sounds weird and is inaccurate. It also doesn’t use common scriptural male terms for God so it feels uncomfortable. However, it is equally as inaccurate as the following sentence:

As God is a spirit and gender free he does not have a gender.

God is not male. It’s OK to admit it, it won’t make you turn blue.

but seriously, where am I wrong, any scripture to demonstrate God is male? Do you have a problem with my perspective here shared (other than my Lame jokes) or is it acceptable theologically.

thanks! I’m mostly trying this out because I want to talk to my pastor about it but I don’t want to miss anything important. Thanks!

Absolutely not. The bible is pretty clear that God is male. Just because he is with us through the holy spirit doesn't make him any less male.

Mark Quayle · May 15, 2020

GaveMeJoy said:
He’s also equally feminine.

God comforts his people like a mother comforts her child (Isaiah 66:13)

Like a woman would never forget her nursing child, God will not forget his children (Isaiah 49:15)

God is like a mother eagle hovering over her young (Deuteronomy 32:11)

God seeks the lost like a housekeeper, trying to find her lost coin (Luke 15:8-10)

God cares for his people like a midwife that cares for the child she just delivered (Ps 22:9-10, Ps 71:6, Isa 66:9)

God experiences the fury of a mother bear robbed of her cubs (Hosea 13:8)

Jesus longed for the people of Jerusalem, like a mother hen longs to gather her chicks under her wings (Luke 13:34)

You just finished saying masculine and feminine are culturally applied, and now you say he is equally feminine? How can you know?

GaveMeJoy · May 15, 2020

Mark Quayle said:
You just finished saying masculine and feminine are culturally applied, and now you say he is equally feminine? How can you know?

Because our current culture definitely masculine and feminine qualities of which God has both according to scripture

chevyontheriver · May 15, 2020

GaveMeJoy said:
I agree.

Not so sure we actually agree.

I tried to make a distinction that the goddess thing is also false characterization.

God and Pachamama have nothing in common

I believe God and the father are the same member of the Godhead and therefore one.

No. God or the Godhead is one God. But that one God has three persons. One of those three persons is the Eternal Father.

However, father is a role it’s not a gender in this case IMO

The Father is not a 'role' of God but a person within the Godhead. What you claimed appears very much to be the heresy of modalism, and I doubt you actually wanted to go there.

GaveMeJoy · May 15, 2020

chevyontheriver said:
Not so sure we actually agree.

God and Pachamama have nothing in common

No. God or the Godhead is one God. But that one God has three persons. One of those three persons is the Eternal Father.

The Father is not a 'role' of God but a person within the Godhead. What you claimed appears very much to be the heresy of modalism, and I doubt you actually wanted to go there.

God the father, god the son, and god the Holy Spirit are the only three members of the trinity. Father in reference to God is not a gender assignment it’s a role description in plain human language

GaveMeJoy · May 15, 2020

Silly Uncle Wayne said:
Years ago I read quotes from a feminist Bible where they had changed the gender of God, e.g. Our Mother, who is in Heaven... and so on.

I wasn't in favour and particularly as it seemed to render the whole thing a bit nonsensical. Arguing that God has gender is one thing, but actually changing 'his' gender doesn't solve the problem it only makes it worse.

The fact is we have no real way of referring to generderless beings because we don't actually know any apart from God and in the original text male references can also refer to female if the context is right (e.g. brothers sometimes really means brothers and sisters).

It might be more helpful if churches occasionally reminded their congregation that God is, rather than God is male.

Yea that’s one reason why I’m engaging the people who are posting nonsense replies in this thread about women not being created in the imagine of God

GaveMeJoy · May 15, 2020

Mountainmanbob said:
Is God male or female? | GotQuestions.org

Question: "Is God male or female?"

Answer: In examining Scripture, two facts become clear. First, God is a Spirit and does not possess human characteristics or limitations. Second, all the evidence contained in Scripture agrees that God revealed Himself to mankind in a male form. To begin, God’s true nature needs to be understood. God is a Person, obviously, because God exhibits all the characteristics of personhood: God has a mind, a will, an intellect, and emotions. God communicates and He has relationships, and God’s personal actions are evidenced throughout Scripture.

Scripture contains approximately 170 references to God as the “Father.” By necessity, one cannot be a father unless one is male. If God had chosen to be revealed to man in a female form, then the word “mother” would have occurred in these places, not “father.” In the Old and New Testaments, masculine pronouns are used over and over again in reference to God.

Jesus Christ referred to God as the Father several times and in other cases used masculine pronouns in reference to God. In the Gospels alone, Christ uses the term “Father” in direct reference to God nearly 160 times. Of particular interest is Christ’s statement in John 10:30: “I and the Father are one.”

Male pronouns used to reference God are not an assignment of gender or sex. God is a spirit being and does not possess genetalia or XY chromosomes. God possesses traits that our culture have determined are feminine and other traits our culture has determined are masculine. Those gender roles are irrelevant to God and subjective. God is the way he is, various cultures can assign those traits as masculine or feminine all they want, it doesn’t make God any more male than female.

GaveMeJoy · May 15, 2020

Ethalee said:
Absolutely not. The bible is pretty clear that God is male. Just because he is with us through the holy spirit doesn't make him any less male.

False. It is absolutely clear that God is a spirit and therefore does not have a sex. It is impossible for him to be male. Period

chevyontheriver · May 15, 2020

GaveMeJoy said:
God the father, god the son, and god the Holy Spirit are the only three members of the trinity.

Yes.

Father in reference to God is not a gender assignment it’s a role description in plain human language

Not a 'role' at all. The Son is not a 'role'. The Spirit is not a 'role'. They are distinct persons within the Godhead. Otherwise the Son could not have a relationship with the Father or send the Spirit.

Mark Quayle · May 15, 2020

GaveMeJoy said:
Because our current culture definitely masculine and feminine qualities of which God has both according to scripture

So are there any absolutes? According to Scripture, I find males only one of many masculine things, of which God most definitely is one. I really don't care what culture thinks. God seems to have his own purposes (as opposed to opinions) in which the Church is the Bride of Christ, God is the "decider" and everything else responds.

There are just too many references in the Bible to the masculinity of God for me to say he is equally feminine.

Mountainmanbob · May 15, 2020

Mark Quayle said:
for me to say he is

You hit right on it there with the word He used.

prodromos · May 15, 2020

GaveMeJoy said:
Yea that’s one reason why I’m engaging the people who are posting nonsense replies in this thread about women not being created in the imagine of God

It actually has a lot in common with how Islam regards women. With Christianity, not so much.

Mountainmanbob · May 15, 2020

GaveMeJoy said:
it doesn’t make God any more male than female.

www.biblegateway.com › passage
After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in.

This just doesn't sound near the same
our mother who art in heaven.

More like a Mary prayer.

M

Sparagmos · May 15, 2020

prodromos said:
It's a denial of Scripture for one thing.

All this took place to fulfil what the Lord had spoken by the prophet:
“Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son,
and his name shall be called Emman′u-el” (which means, God with us)

Well, yes. Christians generally pick and choose parts of scripture to take literally, parts to ignore, parts to say don’t apply to us, and parts to obsess over.

Sparagmos · May 15, 2020

Sam81 said:
It's a sad commentary on the state of society when one is suspected of being bitter for refusing to accept a postmodern conception of God.

In any case, this isn't about me. It's about the blasphemous idea that God has a feminine side. God is clearly masculine. And if I'm upset over anything, it's the feminization of western society which is very destructive.

What's next? Are you going to argue that women don't have to submit to their husbands and can become pastors? Because that's really a thing in the church. It's demonic.

Ok you’ve gotta be a Poe...

Sparagmos · May 15, 2020

Sam81 said:
Then why is Eve used as an example of why women should not have spiritual authority over a man? Why did Satan target Eve and not Adam? Limiting it to the physical is presumption on your part and doesn't jive with the truth.

Wow, so I’m weaker physically and spiritually! How about mentally? Am I mentally weaker as well?

Philip_B · May 15, 2020

chevyontheriver said:
Yes.

Not a 'role' at all. The Son is not a 'role'. The Spirit is not a 'role'. They are distinct persons within the Godhead. Otherwise the Son could not have a relationship with the Father or send the Spirit.

and yet

Philip_B said:
I also felt this was helpful:

239 By calling God "Father", the language of faith indicates two main things: that God is the first origin of everything and transcendent authority; and that he is at the same time goodness and loving care for all his children. God's parental tenderness can also be expressed by the image of motherhood, which emphasizes God's immanence, the intimacy between Creator and creature. The language of faith thus draws on the human experience of parents, who are in a way the first representatives of God for man. But this experience also tells us that human parents are fallible and can disfigure the face of fatherhood and motherhood. We ought therefore to recall that God transcends the human distinction between the sexes. He is neither man nor woman: he is God. He also transcends human fatherhood and motherhood, although he is their origin and standard: no one is father as God is Father.
Catechism of the Catholic Church - The Father
Catechism of the Catholic Church at 239 - my emphasis on the relevant point.

Not a source I normally quote, and this does represent the official teaching of the RCC on this point.

I have heard Orthodox Christians speak of the monarchical integrity of the Father, which I presume to understand but a little of the issue, but it does point to a concept of which Pierre Teilhard de Chardin was speaking when he spoke of the Apha Point of all that is. Essentially we affirm this in the Creed of the 1st Council of Constantinople, and it is this sense origin that is key, rather than a sense of maleness or masculinity or the Father.

Men and women on the face of earth share a mutual responsibility and interdependence. We need both men and women for our species to survive. And God made us that way. That is a given. The question is whether the Patriarchal Structure is part of that creation, or a symptom of the fall.

I don't think it is at all christian to see women as lesser beings, or that their purpose in life is to make men look good. The use of texts to justify this sort of behavior is not dissimilar to the way various texts were used to support slavery.

So with our Latin Christian friends I think we should affirm that God is neither man nor woman, for he is God.

shineyourlight · May 16, 2020

I think all of you are wonderful <3

Let's take a moment and eat some cookies.

An extreme oreo stuffed peanut butter cookie. (An Oreo inside of a peanut butter cookie that I also filled with Reese’s Peanut Butter Cups).

Now, carry on.

God as much of a woman as a man

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