Trump's popularity among older Americans is falling

His popularity SHOULD BE dropping with older Americans, given he's basically said they may as well drop dead for the sake of the economy.

Meanwhile, depending on the year, America has ALREADY had double the deaths from Covid compared to the annual flu toll - and that's with lockdowns.
Burden of Influenza

Hazelelponi said:

Aren't those who needed protection to begin with, and those for whom ALL these nation-destroying measures are being done for (ostensibly), albeit in this manner aren't getting any actual protection at all?????

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Instead, we protected no one who actually needed protection plus destroyed the economy, ALL at the behest of the left!

Instead, you took freedom from 350 plus million people and saved likely not one life.

Good job!

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So austensibly if you are sick with COVID19, You believe you have the LEGAL and inalienable RIGHT to go out shopping,begetting hair cuts, etc.

Do I understand that right or ..?

Evan Jellicoe said:

As an aside, a justification frequently used by conservatives is "I don't need government taking care of me. I am capable of taking care of myself." (The "Nanny State" argument.)

There is some apparent justification to this. I often feel that way myself. However, after a few years of growing up, it one day dawned on me that not everybody is as capable as I am.

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For example, those upset at the thought of wearing a mask in public to help prevent the spread of a dangerous disease. Or those more concerned about getting a haircut than trying to relieve some of the pressure on medical professionals.

Just to pick a few examples of irresponsible behavior during this crisis.

rambot said:

So austensibly if you are sick with COVID19, You believe you have the LEGAL and inalienable RIGHT to go out shopping,begetting hair cuts, etc.

Do I understand that right or ..?

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Exactly where did I say that? I have never once said that quarantine of the sick or those at highest risk was wrong...

However, I do think that quarantine of the healthy low risk population is just irresponsible from an economic standpoint.

When a doctor looks at you and says you shouldn't lift anything heavier than a gallon of milk, which means you can't go to work to support your family. There comes a point in time where bills are coming due and your drowning in debt, unable to make your house and car payments, insurance premiums and more...

At some point your going to look at your doctor and say all this is all well and good; I've done it as long as humanly possible but if I continue following doctors orders my kids are going to end up in foster care and I will be homeless on the street. So, you must stop following doctors orders because there are greater considerations that have to take precedence..

Doctors never look at the economics of their recommendations, so you have to weigh everything and find the balance between all the necessary considerations and what the doctor says.

Bed rest is great when the doctor orders it but eventually you need to stop bedrest and just bathe, because your hair is greasy and you smell just a little too earthy... you know?

We have more considerations than just one thing where the doing of is based on an unrealistic ideal that just doesn't exist in practice.

Hazelelponi said:

Exactly where did I say that? I have never once said that quarantine of the sick or those at highest risk was wrong...

However, I do think that quarantine of the healthy low risk population is just irresponsible from an economic standpoint.

When a doctor looks at you and says you shouldn't lift anything heavier than a gallon of milk, which means you can't go to work to support your family. There comes a point in time where bills are coming due and your drowning in debt, unable to make your house and car payments, insurance premiums and more...

At some point your going to look at your doctor and say all this is all well and good, and I've done it as long as humanly possible but if I continue following doctors orders my kids are going to end up in foster care and I will be homeless on the street, so you stop following doctors orders because there are greater cconsiderations that need precedence..

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Completely true, which is why a logical rational society provides support for people to ensure you don't have to make those kinds of decisions. Because its obvious that you'll take risks if the alternative is homelessness/starvation. Not only is that totally inhumane to put those decisions onto people, but in the current crisis those people also then end up contributing to spreading the virus even more and putting even more people at risk.

Hazelelponi said:

Exactly where did I say that? I have never once said that quarantine of the sick or those at highest risk was wrong...

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Well given people can be asymptomatic
And given it takes 10 days to show symptoms, it seems your "healthy people should be allowed out and sick people should be quarantined" line of logic becomes altogether moot.

I agree we should quaratine the sick.

But I've just explained the reason why we quarantine the healthy. Do you understand that?

As per your example;
1. Does lifting a box make your grandmother's back hurt?
2. Get a different job
3. I'm not sure you know what bed rest means

Kentonio said:

Completely true, which is why a logical rational society provides support for people to ensure you don't have to make those kinds of decisions. Because its obvious that you'll take risks if the alternative is homelessness/starvation. Not only is that totally inhumane to put those decisions onto people, but in the current crisis those people also then end up contributing to spreading the virus even more and putting even more people at risk.

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I think your not understanding my point here. My point is that we are there nationally.

While we are a fairly wealthy nation, we can only take on so much debt and we were drowning in debt prior to this pandemic. There is only so much more debt we can take on.

40% of all businesses in this country are small businesses. If everything opened up today just like normal, say a vaccine had been distributed today, so today all businesses could re-open and all can get back to normal... there are many small businesses that simply can't reopen ever, at this point. Their doors are now permanently closed.

Money has to come from somewhere, and this fantasy of a magic money printing press is just that, a fantasy.

And the longer this keeps on the more businesses will be past the point of no return. This is a gift to giant corporations.. for real.

If we had zero debt when this started I would agree we could handle it nationally, but it's like fighting a war on so many fronts you just can't fight another one and we had over 20 trillion in debt prior to this... we can't just start adding up more trillions (which we are already doing) or we will never recover.

The way this is trying to be done right now will destroy us. It's time to go with some rational thought. Ideals, while lovely, are usually not reflective of reality.

Hazelelponi said:

I think your not understanding my point here. My point is that we are there nationally.

While we are a fairly wealthy nation, we can only take on so much debt and we were drowning in debt prior to this pandemic. There is only so much more debt we can take on.

40% of all businesses in this country are small businesses. If everything opened up today just like normal, say a vaccine had been distributed today, so today all businesses could re-open and all can get back to normal... there are many small businesses that simply can't reopen ever, at this point. Their doors are now permanently closed.

Money has to come from somewhere, and this fantasy of a magic money printing press is just that, a fantasy.

And the longer this keeps on the more businesses will be past the point of no return. This is a gift to giant corporations.. for real.

If we had zero debt when this started I would agree we could handle it nationally, but it's like fighting a war on so many fronts you just can't fight another one and we had over 20 trillion in debt prior to this... we can't just start adding up more trillions (which we are already doing) or we will never recover.

The way this is trying to be done right now will destroy us. It's time to go with some rational thought. Ideals, while lovely, are usually not reflective of reality.

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This view of American wealth is just mistaken. You are not a 'fairly wealthy nation', you're the richest nation in the history of the world. In 2020 with this crisis raging you will still be spending $721.5 billion just on your military alone (your nearest rival China will be spending $261 billion for comparison). Trump's tax cut is going to cost in the region of $2 TRILLION.

Countries are not people with credit cards, there isn't some borrowing limit you can't breach, and even if there was US is more than capable of dealing with this crisis by rebalancing its short term priorities.

As for businesses, yes many will close. Then after the virus many new ones will open. That really sucks for the people who lose their businesses in the meantime, but life really isn't fair, and those businesses will be lost anyway if the current lockdown pandemic becomes a full raging pandemic. People don't wander around shopping when there's bodies being transported through the streets in convoys to mass graves.

Hazelelponi said:

I think your not understanding my point here. My point is that we are there nationally.

While we are a fairly wealthy nation, we can only take on so much debt and we were drowning in debt prior to this pandemic. There is only so much more debt we can take on.

...

The way this is trying to be done right now will destroy us. It's time to go with some rational thought. Ideals, while lovely, are usually not reflective of reality.

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Kentonio said:

This view of American wealth is just mistaken. You are not a 'fairly wealthy nation', you're the richest nation in the history of the world. In 2020 with this crisis raging you will still be spending $721.5 billion just on your military alone (your nearest rival China will be spending $261 billion for comparison). Trump's tax cut is going to cost in the region of $2 TRILLION.

Countries are not people with credit cards, there isn't some borrowing limit you can't breach, and even if there was US is more than capable of dealing with this crisis by rebalancing its short term priorities.

As for businesses, yes many will close. Then after the virus many new ones will open. That really sucks for the people who lose their businesses in the meantime, but life really isn't fair, and those businesses will be lost anyway if the current lockdown pandemic becomes a full raging pandemic. People don't wander around shopping when there's bodies being transported through the streets in convoys to mass graves.

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I could have "liked" Kentonio's post, but I prefer to quote it for the emphasis. The USA is not a fairly wealthy nation, it's the richest country in the world. Now, other countries can take the hit of weeks lasting lockdowns. Why can't the USA? Why do you 'as a nation) have no stamina, no endurance? After this crisis a nation wont even need to rebuild itself, like after a devastating war: you infrastructure is still working, your human labour force is still alive, no knowledge has gone lost. You have just put your priority wrong. Really. Risking thousands of lifes for just a haircut.

...

Paulos23 said:

It is not surprising. How a President is handling a crisis goes past ideology and party loyalty.

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Hazelelponi said:

So what, Trump created this virus in a lab now and released it on the American people?

Lol...

TRUMP caused nothing, but he did sit back while every freedom was removed from us... kowtowing to the left's idiotic demands, thereby allowing it.

We keep this up much longer we'll be a third world nation. Go leftwingers.

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Republicans are attempting to limit voting by mail. For example on Friday the Texas Supreme Court decided that a person would not be allowed to vote by mail in elections because they were afraid of contracting the corona virus. Thus elderly persons or persons with underlying conditions will have to risk catching and dying from the corona virus if they want to vote in Texas which has a large number of electoral votes. Similar efforts are underway elsewhere.

Evan Jellicoe said:

So by arguing that "I don't need a Nanny State" I am implicitly also saying that for those who do need assistance. . .well, they're just morons who deserve to suffer for their stupidity. And that is a terribly unmerciful, unkind, unchristian way of looking at people.

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A-MEN.

Evan Jellicoe said:

This thread is about seniors' voting preferences, but here is a look at the big picture that is likely being affected in part by what seniors are saying:
State 2020 polls suggest Joe Biden has a clear national lead - CNNPolitics

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I'm not holding my breath anymore.

Hazelelponi said:

Bed rest is great when the doctor orders it but eventually you need to stop bedrest and just bathe, because your hair is greasy and you smell just a little too earthy... you know?

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Bedrest does not preclude bathing and general hygiene.

Hazelelponi said:

I think the lockdown was absurd, and did nothing but play into the hands of the left, doing their bidding instead of what's right, so I also am discouraged.

Trump kowtow'd to the left throughout this crisis without regard for this nation, and did it in the name of the elderly... allowing religious freedom and just plain freedom in general be stripped away from people, in our names and it doesn't make me happy.

I'll still vote for Trump (it'll be over my dead body - figure of speech - another dem gets in office again) but I'm not happy atm. I find what just happened in this country exceedingly disturbing. If this is a portent of things to come then left or right we are just screwed as a nation.

However, since this is a 1 off I'll give Trump a chance to fix what he allowed here.

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Well the one world government is inevitable according to the Bible; it's a part of God's eternal plan to bring this world to an end. So if you're counting on Donald Trump or any other politician to prevent that from happening, your hope is vain.

This crisis response may have been, in part, a global test of how willing people are to sacrifice their freedoms and obey the government in the face of a threat, and of how open they are to accepting a new world order.

Time will tell.

The Bible says not to put your trust in princes.

TLSITD said:

Well the one world government is inevitable according to the Bible; it's a part of God's eternal plan to bring this world to an end. So if you're counting on Donald Trump or any other politician to prevent that from happening, your hope is vain.

This crisis response may have been, in part, a global test of how willing people are to sacrifice their freedoms and obey the government in the face of a threat, and of how open they are to accepting a new world order.

Time will tell.

The Bible says not to put your trust in princes.

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Lol! I'd you think try o is even trying to do any such thing you are hilarious!