Who Goes To Hell?

Der Alte

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They sent Germany to hell in the years after WWII. Read Hellstorm:
Eisenhower was POTUS, my first duty station in Germany 5 months before my 18th birthday was Dachau the first of the concentration/extermination camps. All of the buildings were still standing. The prisoner barracks were a refugee camp. I lived in the former SS guard barracks. My room was above the right wing of the eagle on the left. The eagles were still there but the swastikas had been removed.
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My first duty station in Germany 5 months before my 18th birthday was Dachau the first of the concentration/extermination camps. All of the buildings were still standing. The prisoner barracks were a refugee camp. I lived in the former SS guard barracks. My room was above the right wing of the eagle on the left. Thew eagles were still there but the swastikas had been removed.
View attachment 276848

Interesting, quite a large labour camp, as I understand it.
 
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BlessedCreator

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Don't you believe that every knee will bow and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord? And that will happen in heaven and on earth and under the earth? (in the realm of the dead) Don't you know that means salvation for all? And this is the very reason Christ died and returned to life? How did you not know this? (no one told you until now)

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says,
“Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

If everyone was going to be saved then such scriptures as Matthew 7:13-14 or Matthew 25:30 would make no sense at all.

Matthew 7:13-14 KJB
"13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

Matthew 25:30 KJB
"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Matthew 25:41 KJB
" “Then shall He say also unto them on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels."
 
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BlessedCreator

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Yes, unfortunately I know the scope of your blind understanding of the Holy.

I also know the scope of ta pavnte.

He is the Source, Guide & Goal of the all.

I don't need to study Hebrew or Greek to understand things plainly revealed by God's word in the KJB and by the Spirit.

1 John 2:27 KJB
"But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."
 
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FineLinen

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I don't need to study Hebrew or Greek to understand things plainly revealed by God's word in the KJB and by the Spirit.

The study of koine is but a tool. The grasp of the koine more complex!

The grasp of the Holy is not simple and most certainly not "plainly revealed".

Then opened He their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures.
 
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Der Alte

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<FineLinen>The study & grasp of koine is but a tool.
The grasp of the Holy is not simple and most certainly not "plainly revealed".
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures.,\<FineLinen>
The scriptures Jesus opened the disciples understanding of was the O.T. and it was not some secret meaning for certain elite people. He explained to them that the O.T. scriptures they already knew pointed to Him.
John 5:39-40
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
Jesus did not say "You will not come to me that you might have life.but after you die your minds will somehow change and you will come to me."
 
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If everyone was going to be saved then such scriptures as Matthew 7:13-14 or Matthew 25:30 would make no sense at all.

Matthew 7:13-14 KJB
"13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

Matthew 25:30 KJB
"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Matthew 25:41 KJB
" “Then shall He say also unto them on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

So do those scriptures lead you to conclude that God sends most ppl to burn in hell forever with nary a hope of reprieve - whether by His active or passive will?
 
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BlessedCreator

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So do those scriptures lead you to conclude that God sends most ppl to burn in hell forever with nary a hope of reprieve - whether by His active or passive will?

That is what God's words tell us. If people do not want to give heed to His warnings, continuing on in their lusts living contrary to His will, He allows them to do that.
 
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BlessedCreator

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The study of koine is but a tool. The grasp of the koine more complex!

The grasp of the Holy is not simple and most certainly not "plainly revealed".

Then opened He their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures.

You speak of understanding the Holy, which is God. Yet you are teaching contrary to God's own words.

1 Timothy 6:3-4 KJB
"3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,"
 
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Der Alte

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So do those scriptures lead you to conclude that God sends most ppl to burn in hell forever with nary a hope of reprieve - whether by His active or passive will?
Not necessarily but these do.
Jesus taught e.g.,

• “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” Matthew 25:41
• "these shall go away into eternal punishment, Matthew 25:46"
• "the fire of hell where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die, 3X Mark 9:43-48"
• "cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,” Matthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50
• “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” Matthew 18:6
• “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Matthew 7:23
• “woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. ” Matthew 26:24
• “But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.” Luke 10:12
…..These teachings tacitly reaffirmed and sanctioned a then existing significant Jewish view of eternal hell. In Matt. 18:6, 26:24 and Luk 10:12, see above, Jesus teaches that there is a punishment worse than death or nonexistence.
…..A punishment worse than death without mercy is also mentioned in Hebrews 10:28-31.

Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
And especially Matt 25:46
Greek is now, and has always been, the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church. Who, better than the native Greek speaking scholars who translated the Eastern Orthodox Bible [EOB], know the correct meaning of Greek words, e.g. “Gehenna,””aionios” and “kolasis?”
…..Note, in the EOB, footnote pg.

Hades is the realm of the dead. The upper part of hades was considered to be luminous and it was called “paradise” or "Abraham's bosom.” Hades is not to be confused with hell (Gehenna) which is the final place of state or place of the damned (“the lake of’ fire”).
= = = = = = = = = =
The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96
Matthew 25:46 Then he will answer them saying ‘Amen. I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' “These [[ones on the left]] will go away into eternal punishment.[κολασιν αιονιον/kolasin aiōnion] but the righteous into eternal life.

= = = = = = =
Also in the EOB Paul uses “αιονιον/aionon,” in 1 Tim 1:17 synonymous with “αιδιος/aidios” in Rom 1:20, below.
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world, his invisible things are clearly seen. They perceived through created things, even his everlasting [τε αιδιος/te aidios] power and divinity.
= = = = = = = =
1 Timothy 1:17 Now, to the eternal [των αιωνων/tōn aiōnōn] King. immortal. invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory unto ages of ages. Amen.
In 1 Tim 1:17 Paul not only uses "aionon" synonymous with "aidios," in Rom 1:20, but also defines it by pairing it with "immortal" in the same verse.
https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/books/or...tament-(The-Eastern-Greek-Orthodox-Bible).pdf
The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96 can be D/L at the link above. If anyone has doubts about the EOB version I suggest they read the preface which summarizes the extensive Greek scholarship supporting this translation.


 
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That is what God's words tell us. If people do not want to give heed to His warnings, continuing on in their lusts living contrary to His will, He allows them to do that.

So eternal torment is a creature of Grace?
 
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• “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

The everlasting fire is God's presence that destroys the enemies, which are spiritual not physical, and the last to be destroyed is death, which is the wages of sin, including unbelief, love of the lie, cowardice and so on.

Yet a bruised reed He will not break nor a smouldering wick will He extinguish.

• "these shall go away into eternal punishment,

*Ages of correction.

• "the fire of hell where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die,

AlleluYah, the worm liveth!

• "cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,

Usual procedure is to gurgle and scream when being roasted, as I understand it. Caution: metaphor.

Everyone will be salted with fire, and salt is good.

But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

So please refrain from offending the young with threats of hideous medieval punishments.

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

He's talking to those who spread false gospels and think God is a tormenter of His creatures.

woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.

Sure would. Judas' name is mud and a by-word for treachery everywhere.

But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.”

Good to hear Sodom gets a second chance though isn't it?
 
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Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old.
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Well, you could have gone for Rev 14:11a: 'And the smoke of their torment goes up for ever and ever'.
Basanismos:

Strong's Greek: 929. βασανισμός (basanismos) -- torture
Testing, testing, 1 2 3?
My Strong's reads
G929 βασανισμός basanismos bas-an-is-mos'
From G928; torture: - torment.
Total KJV occurrences: 6
= = = = = = = = = =
Thayer's G929 βασανισμός basanismos
Thayer Definition:
1) to torture, a testing by the touchstone, which is a black siliceous stone used to test the purity of gold or silver by the colour of the streak produced on it by rubbing it with either metal
2) torment, torture
2a) the act of tormenting
2b) the state or condition of those tormented
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G928
Citing in TDNT: 1:561, 96
 
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Der Alte

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The everlasting fire is God's presence that destroys the enemies, which are spiritual not physical, and the last to be destroyed is death, which is the wages of sin, including unbelief, love of the lie, cowardice and so on.
Yet a bruised reed He will not break nor a smouldering wick will He extinguish.
Fanciful suppositions.
*Ages of correction.
Kolasis in Matt 25:46 is not plural and it is not a genitive, which it would have to be to be "ages of." Got any more speculation.

Greek is now, and has always been, the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church. Who, better than the native Greek speaking scholars who translated the Eastern Orthodox Bible [EOB], know the correct meaning of Greek words, e.g. “Gehenna,””aionios” and “kolasis?”
…..Note, in the EOB, footnote pg.108

Hades is the realm of the dead. The upper part of hades was considered to be luminous and it was called “paradise” or "Abraham's bosom.” Hades is not to be confused with hell (Gehenna) which is the final place of state or place of the damned (“the lake of’ fire”).
The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96
Matthew 25:46 Then he will answer them saying ‘Amen. I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' “These [[ones on the left]] will go away into eternal punishment.[κολασιν αιονιον/kolasin aiōnion] but the righteous into eternal life.
[QUOTED]Everyone will be salted with fire, and salt is good.[/QUOTE]
UR-ites quote Mar 9:49, out-of-context, as if it is concrete proof that UR is true.

Mark 9:42-50
42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.
50 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.
First vs. 42 begins with a warning of a fate worse than death so it hardly follows that in vs. 49 Jesus is saying all mankind will be saved, righteous and unrighteous alike, even after death.
Then Jesus describes a place where the fire is not quenched and the worm of each person in that place never dies.
Then Jesus states "every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt." What does that mean?

Ezekiel 43:25
25 Seven days shalt thou prepare every day a goat for a sin offering: they shall also prepare a young bullock, and a ram out of the flock, without blemish.
Leviticus 2:13
13 And every oblation of thy meat offering shalt thou season with salt; neither shalt thou suffer the salt of the covenant of thy God to be lacking from thy meat offering: with all thine offerings thou shalt offer salt.
Every offering must be without blemish before they are salted, they are not made "without blemish" by the fire/salt. So vs. 49 refers only to followers of Jesus not all mankind.
 
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JulieB67

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Christ says that there is a gulf and I believe that. And I believe there is great anguish on the one side. But great white throne of judgement has not happened yet so no one is actually burning in a lake of fire right now.

But after the books are opened after judgement, those not in the book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire. Then hell and death are thrown into the lake of fire. God is a consuming fire and those will be blotted out. This is the second death, the death of the soul. No one will be burning forever. A loving God would not do that. But if you do not want to spend an eternity with him, he will simply let that be the case.

Even Satan will be turned from ashes from within.

And yes, that is eternal, there is not coming back from that. And the smoke rises forever, that is eternal.

Christ puts it very simply in Matthew 10:28

Matthew 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

The word destroy (apollumi in the Greek) means to destroy "fully".

To say that the soul lives forever in hell would be a straight up contradiction of Christ's teaching here.

 
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FineLinen

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I'm using my hardcover Strong's Exhaustive Condordance by James Strong at home and for 622 apollumi the first words listed are -"to destroy fully". Although I'm sure utterly would be the same.

Assuming you grasp all the scope of apollumi, and that scope is correct, I have a wee question for you.

Is the God who is the God of limited, with UN before it, able to destroy fully & to raise from the dust of that encounter a new vessel ? ?
 
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