God as much of a woman as a man

OrdineeeBe · May 13, 2020

prodromos said:
You make this claim yet you offer no alternative context and meaning. What do you claim is the context and meaning of "God is spirit"?

"God is spirit" simply means "God is spirit" it doesn't mean anything else. There is no, "God is spirit, therefore God The Father is not a physical being" God indeed is spirit, and has spiritual forms and manifestations through the holy spirit, however this does not discount or disprove his physicality whatsoever. The Father, The Holy Spirit, and Jesus are all of the same soul in a sense even if they are separate entities, they are the same God because of their shared soul. The Father and Jesus are physical manifestations, nothing indicates otherwise.

prodromos said:
God's interaction with Moses and Elijah say otherwise.

Just because he interacted with someone outside of his physical form does not mean he is a non physical being.

Olmhinlu · May 13, 2020

Sam81 said:
God is not biologically male. But God is most certainly masculine.

People might struggle to believe that if they think that sex is biological, personality is entirely mental, and that any correlation between the two is a social construction called "gender".

archer75 · May 13, 2020

Sam81 said:
God is not biologically male. But God is most certainly masculine.

Well, now this makes a distinction that makes sense to me.

Radagast · May 13, 2020

OrdineeeBe said:
"God is spirit" simply means "God is spirit" it doesn't mean anything else. There is no, "God is spirit, therefore God The Father is not a physical being"

That's exactly what it means.

We are spirit and body; God the Father is only spirit. God the Son was only spirit until He became incarnate.

prodromos · May 14, 2020

OrdineeeBe said:
"God is spirit" simply means "God is spirit" it doesn't mean anything else. There is no, "God is spirit, therefore God The Father is not a physical being" God indeed is spirit, and has spiritual forms and manifestations through the holy spirit, however this does not discount or disprove his physicality whatsoever. The Father, The Holy Spirit, and Jesus are all of the same soul in a sense even if they are separate entities, they are the same God because of their shared soul. The Father and Jesus are physical manifestations, nothing indicates otherwise.

I find it ironic that you would invoke Occams Razor earlier yet you want to go for the more complicated explanation here. This is the only passage in Scripture which attributes any kind of 'substance' or 'essence' to God and you haven't given any explanation as to how the context invalidates the plain meaning of the text. Jesus says God is Spirit. That's it.

Olmhinlu · May 14, 2020

Maybe like how saying "God is love" != "God is only love"

prodromos · May 14, 2020

Olmhinlu said:
Maybe like how saying "God is love" != "God is only love"

Does Scripture say God is any other 'substance'? John's Gospel says "the Word became flesh" so clearly Jesus wasn't flesh before His incarnation.

chevyontheriver · May 14, 2020

PloverWing said:
Those of you who have said that God is male (or that God the Father is male): What do you mean when you say that God is male? What does "male" mean to you, when you are speaking of a being who does not have a body?

Simply that God the Son spoke of God the Father as Father. Prayed to God the Father as Father.

There is a difference between considering God to be male on the one hand (not true) and considering the Father to be male (still true for many of us Christians).

Similarly: What do you mean when you say that an angel is male?

I never said or intimated that. Angels are neither male or female, but a different sort of creation.

Akita Suggagaki · May 14, 2020

Some of my favorite images of God are female.
Isaiah 66:13 God as a comforting mother
“As a mother comforts her child, so I will comfort you; you shall be comforted in Jerusalem.”

Isaiah 49:15 God compared to a nursing mother
“Can a woman forget her nursing child, or show no compassion for the child of her womb? Even these may forget, yet I will not forget you.”

Isaiah 42:14 God as a woman in labor
“For a long time I have held my peace, I have kept myself still and restrained myself; now I will cry out like a woman in labor, I will gasp and pant.”

Psalm 131:2 God as a Mother
“But I have calmed and quieted my soul, like a weaned child with its mother; my soul is like the weaned child that is with me.”

Psalm 123:2-3 God compared to a woman
“As the eyes of a servant looks to the hand of their master, as the eyes of a maid to the hand of her mistress, so our eyes look to you, YHWH, until you show us your mercy!”

Matthew 23:37 and Luke 13:34 God as a Mother Hen
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often have I desired to gather your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing!”

Citizen of the Kingdom · May 14, 2020

There is only one definition of ‘mother’ in the New Testament and that is the New Jerusalem. It occurs in context with the explanation of grace, defined as a metaphor, and is substantial to define freedom. It is also combined with faith, but not according to law, as a second witness of the old in comparison to the new, and aligned with the promise yet to come, yet already among and contained by the few that align themselves with it.

PloverWing · May 14, 2020

Sam81 said:
God is not biologically male. But God is most certainly masculine.

What do you mean when you say that God is masculine?

Thera · May 14, 2020

GaveMeJoy said:
Disclaimer to male readers: I am a straight and manly 6 foot 200 pound man, who is red blooded and I am not a progressive or “feminist” or liberal. It’s ok to keep reading and not just dismiss it because you think I’m a woman.

God is a spirit being. God had no gender or physical representation. While Jesus manifested as a male human, he existed as a member of the triune God for eternity before creation.
While it can be argued Jesus is entirely male, there is no scriptural defense for the position that God is male in any way.

The bible makes it clear to us that God the Father is a He. I'd caution against fashioning a god according to your own desires. The bible refers to this as idolatry. Remember the words of the song "Naught be all else to me save that thou art". If the god we worship is something to us that God is not (e.g. she instead of He), we are worshipping a false god.

Sam81 · May 14, 2020

PloverWing said:
What do you mean when you say that God is masculine?

Every time He has appeared, Old Testament and New, He has appeared in the form of a man.

He is called Father.

He created man first In His Image, then the woman.

He is referred to in the Word of God by masculine pronouns.

He possesses masculine characteristics.

Monna · May 14, 2020

GaveMeJoy said:
The scriptures use the male pronoun to refer to God by default, through translation, and because the scriptures were written in patriarchal societies where the male pronoun would be used for a deity.

I wonder if this is such a big issue among those believers whose language has only one form for the third person singular (he, she, it in English).

And I guess that John 1:12 means that all believers automatically become male (even if as humans in the flesh they are female).

"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

Although Paul might disagree. He says in Galations 3:28

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

Jesus told the Sadducees that in the resurrection "they shall be like the angels." (If you're married here, you will not be married in heaven - Mark 12:25; Luke 20:34-37) :angel:

Even if Jesus was biologically male, he had no problem taking on the behaviour of a hen. (Matt. 23:37)

GaveMeJoy said:
the scriptures were written in patriarchal societies where the male pronoun would be used for a deity.

Not all deities were male. Italy and Greece had overwhelmingly patriarchal societies, but both had multiple female deities. As did many other patriarchal societies in other parts of the world. Where their languages had male and female pronouns, they would use them appropiately.

PloverWing · May 14, 2020

Sam81 said:
He possesses masculine characteristics.

Do you mean that God possesses characteristics that are found in human men that are not also found in human women? What characteristics do you have in mind?

Sam81 · May 14, 2020

PloverWing said:
Do you mean that God possesses characteristics that are found in human men that are not also found in human women? What characteristics do you have in mind?

Men and women naturally possess certain characteristics that the other sex doesn't possess quite as often or as much. In a healthy society that isn't run amok with wickedness and relativism, the primary characteristics seen in men are the primary characteristics seen in God.

With all due respect, if you have a problem getting a picture of what a man is supposed to look like then I can't help you. I don't know what you believe, but as for me, I am not a relativistic, women ordaining, homo affirming, open minded, kumbaya Christian. I believe in an absolute standard...God's Word. So I know what a man is supposed to look like.

nolidad · May 14, 2020

GaveMeJoy said:
Disclaimer to male readers: I am a straight and manly 6 foot 200 pound man, who is red blooded and I am not a progressive or “feminist” or liberal. It’s ok to keep reading and not just dismiss it because you think I’m a woman.

God is a spirit being. God had no gender or physical representation. While Jesus manifested as a male human, he existed as a member of the triune God for eternity before creation.
While it can be argued Jesus is entirely male, there is no scriptural defense for the position that God is male in any way.

The scriptures use the male pronoun to refer to God by default, through translation, and because the scriptures were written in patriarchal societies where the male pronoun would be used for a deity.

As Goddess is a spirit and gender free, she does not have a gender.

The previous sentence sounds weird and is inaccurate. It also doesn’t use common scriptural male terms for God so it feels uncomfortable. However, it is equally as inaccurate as the following sentence:

As God is a spirit and gender free he does not have a gender.

God is not male. It’s OK to admit it, it won’t make you turn blue.

but seriously, where am I wrong, any scripture to demonstrate God is male? Do you have a problem with my perspective here shared (other than my Lame jokes) or is it acceptable theologically.

thanks! I’m mostly trying this out because I want to talk to my pastor about it but I don’t want to miss anything important. Thanks!

I am sure this has been written many times, but Jesus referred to God as His Father and our Father, in the OT Messiah is referred to as His Son and Jesus is definitely male! That should settle the issue!

Philip_B · May 14, 2020

nolidad said:
That should settle the issue!

Why?

Is this to suggest that the patriarchal constructs of former times are to be enforced on the eternal? Surely here we run the risk of making God in our image, as Blaise Pascal suggested, when we would rather affirm that God made us male and female in his image and after his likeness. Surely to suggest that God is only to be understood in terms of half of the equation is to rob humanity of a deeper and truer understanding of the character and nature of God. God is before gender came to be. God invented gender. Now we see in a glass darkly, but then face to face.

Sam81 · May 14, 2020

Philip_B said:
Why?

Is this to suggest that the patriarchal constructs of former times are to be enforced on the eternal? Surely here we run the risk of making God in our image, as Blaise Pascal suggested, when we would rather affirm that God made us male and female in his image and after his likeness. Surely to suggest that God is only to be understood in terms of half of the equation is to rob humanity of a deeper and truer understanding of the character and nature of God. God is before gender came to be. God invented gender. Now we see in a glass darkly, but then face to face.

As a Christian I don't acknowledge such terms or ideas as "patriarchal" or "social constructs". That's the language of the enemy ...postmodern, pee sittin down garbage. All I'm interested in is right and wrong. And I use the Bible in a very literal way to determine it. The Bible uses male pronouns, refers to God as Father, attributes male characteristics to God, records that Jesus was a male, etc. As much as some might like to have a seat and sit cross-legged, sip latte and discuss inclusivity and biblical nuances, I think I'll pass, and continue to judge righteous judgement according to the Word of God, and what it says at face value.

nolidad · May 14, 2020

Philip_B said:
Why?

Is this to suggest that the patriarchal constructs of former times are to be enforced on the eternal? Surely here we run the risk of making God in our image, as Blaise Pascal suggested, when we would rather affirm that God made us male and female in his image and after his likeness. Surely to suggest that God is only to be understood in terms of half of the equation is to rob humanity of a deeper and truer understanding of the character and nature of God. God is before gender came to be. God invented gender. Now we see in a glass darkly, but then face to face.

Well teh inspired book He caused to have written that is profitable for doctrine, says God is a He, Father, Husband and Jesus is son, bridegroom. If it is good enough for HIm to inspire that to be made known- why is it not good enough for those who call on the name of Jesus????

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