If Jesus died for the world why does most of scripture say the opposite?

Hammster

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Matt. 10: 6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel…14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. 15 Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.
That doesn’t say that the lost sheep are hell bound. Though, the Shepherd won’t lose any sheep given to Him by His Father.
 
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zoidar

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Good Day, Peter

You assume that not choosing everyone is unloving....the weight falls on you.

Some get mercy, some get justice nobody is treated unjustly.... that is not unloving.

Can a loving God send people he created to hell?

in Him,

Bill

Do you think not electing someone before the world was created, if He could, loving? Is it from your view loving to not show mercy to a sick and helpless person if you can?

From your view it seems if God had chosen none to be saved, He would still be love. I would of course disagree.
 
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zoidar

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Honestly, I think it’s the wrong question. If He loves Himself the most, and in the Godhead is perfect love without sin, why did He choose to love any sinner?

That's because Calvinism doesn't give an answer to it.
 
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zoidar

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Good Day, Peter

There are some 12 different ways that the work "world" is used in the NT, for this context I would say # 3 is most fitting.

Thayers gives us the most common:

1) an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government
2) ornament, decoration, adornment, i.e. the arrangement of the stars, ‘the heavenly hosts’, as the ornament of the heavens. 1Pe_3:3
3) the world, the universe
4) the circle of the earth, the earth
5) the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family
6) the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ
7) world affairs, the aggregate of things earthly
7a) the whole circle of earthly goods, endowments riches, advantages, pleasures, etc, which although hollow and frail and fleeting, stir desire, seduce from God and are obstacles to the cause of Christ
8) any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort
8a) the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Rom_11:12 etc)
8b) of believers only, Joh_1:29; Joh_3:16-17; Joh_6:33; Joh_12:47 1Co_4:9; 2Co_5:19

In Him

Bill

Here are some clues how to understand the word "world" in John 3:16.

John 12
44 And Jesus cried out and said, “He who believes in Me, does not believe in Me but in Him who sent Me. 45 He who sees Me sees the One who sent Me. 46
I have come as Light into (or to) the world, so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness. 47 If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.
 
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Hammster

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That's because Calvinism doesn't give an answer to it.
You’re right. He doesn’t tell us why He chose anyone. We just know that He does.
 
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zoidar

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You’re right. He doesn’t tell us why He chose anyone. We just know that He does.

Good Day, Peter

You assume that not choosing everyone is unloving....the weight falls on you.

Some get mercy, some get justice nobody is treated unjustly.... that is not unloving.

Can a loving God send people he created to hell?

in Him,

Bill

From your view it seems if God had chosen none to be saved, He would still be love. I would of course disagree.
 
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Light of the East

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You’re right. He doesn’t tell us why He chose anyone. We just know that He does.

You are wrong about that. When Jesus spoke to the Pharisees about them being blinded so that they might not see the truth and be saved, He gave a very clear reason for why the truth of His being Messiah was being withheld from them.

It was because they had first hardened their hearts. Apparently there comes a time when a person so persists in evil and ignoring reproach that God says "Okay. Since that is what you wish, you shall have it."

Or perhaps it is that continued turning away from the light causes a darkness that cannot be escaped from, much like the dwarves in C.S. Lewis's THE LAST BATTLE.
 
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Hammster

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From your view it seems if God had chosen none to be saved, He would still be loving. I would of course disagree.
Who did He love before creation?
 
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Hammster

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You are wrong about that. When Jesus spoke to the Pharisees about them being blinded so that they might not see the truth and be saved, He gave a very clear reason for why the truth of His being Messiah was being withheld from them.

It was because they had first hardened their hearts. Apparently there comes a time when a person so persists in evil and ignoring reproach that God says "Okay. Since that is what you wish, you shall have it."

Or perhaps it is that continued turning away from the light causes a darkness that cannot be escaped from, much like the dwarves in C.S. Lewis's THE LAST BATTLE.
That doesn’t tell us why the Father chose anyone.
 
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Light of the East

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As a question for the OP -

There are numerous verses in the Scriptures which state that God will save all.

God will have all to be saved (1Ti 2:4) Can His will be thwarted? A most legitimate question. The usual answer is “But man has free-will!” Really? So the will of man trumps the will of God? Do you realize what you just said? That means that if puny, weak, nothing man can trump God’s will and be victorious, then you have no guarantee that Satan won’t do the same thing and throw God off His throne, as He wishes to do. You better think about that some more. While you are thinking, consider this regarding God and man’s free will.

God desires all to come to the knowledge of the truth (1Ti 2:4) Will His desire come to pass, or is it just a weak wish? Same as above. Is God all-powerful or not?

Jesus came to save all. (John 12:47) Will He succeed or fail? Excellent question. I can’t begin to tell you how many people will say that the majority of all mankind will wind up eternally separated from God in torment, and in the same breath, declare this to be a wonderful victory for God. That’s like declaring war on an enemy, having him destroy three-quarters of your town and take the people hostage, and then going around saying you won the war. Nonsense! (My real feelings are stronger than this, but I want to keep this family friendly.) And to the point of this blog piece – does all mean all or not?

In Adam all are condemned, in Christ all live (Romans 5: 15-21) Again, does all mean all? One of the most wretched dances I’ve ever witnessed to deny this verse comes from Calvinists who try to say that “all” means “all of the elect.” Calvinism is a ……………never mind. Again, I want to keep it family friendly. Let’s just say that Calvinism insults the character of God.

In Adam all die, in Christ, all live. (1 Corinthians 15:22) One of the strongest verses I’ve seen to declare that God leaves none of His children behind to be devoured by the evil one, even the most wicked and worst of His kids is included. (Yes, Virginia, even Adolf Hitler!) Remember, Saul of Tarsus [i.e. St. Paul] was a murderer just like Hitler. The only difference is in quantity, not quality. God saved Saul, God is not so weak that He can’t eventually save Schicklgruber.

All are reconciled unto God (Col 1:20). Does all really mean all, or only all of a certain class?

God will have mercy on all (Romans 11:32) All?

Jesus died for all (2 Corinthians 5:14-15). There’s that word all again! Did He die in vain? How can you possibly see the Cross as a victory if all do not eventually make it Home?

Yet, at the same time, it appears that there are verses which state that God only "elects" to save a certain elect number.

So here's my question - how do we reconcile the apparent contradiction in the Scriptures?
 
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Light of the East

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That doesn’t tell us why the Father chose anyone.

If you are referring to the Calvinist idea of an arbitrary choice, made before the foundation of the world, with neither rhyme nor reason behind it, then my answer is that this idea is completely bogus and out of the character of God.
 
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Oldmantook

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As a question for the OP -

There are numerous verses in the Scriptures which state that God will save all.

God will have all to be saved (1Ti 2:4) Can His will be thwarted? A most legitimate question. The usual answer is “But man has free-will!” Really? So the will of man trumps the will of God? Do you realize what you just said? That means that if puny, weak, nothing man can trump God’s will and be victorious, then you have no guarantee that Satan won’t do the same thing and throw God off His throne, as He wishes to do. You better think about that some more. While you are thinking, consider this regarding God and man’s free will.

God desires all to come to the knowledge of the truth (1Ti 2:4) Will His desire come to pass, or is it just a weak wish? Same as above. Is God all-powerful or not?

Jesus came to save all. (John 12:47) Will He succeed or fail? Excellent question. I can’t begin to tell you how many people will say that the majority of all mankind will wind up eternally separated from God in torment, and in the same breath, declare this to be a wonderful victory for God. That’s like declaring war on an enemy, having him destroy three-quarters of your town and take the people hostage, and then going around saying you won the war. Nonsense! (My real feelings are stronger than this, but I want to keep this family friendly.) And to the point of this blog piece – does all mean all or not?

In Adam all are condemned, in Christ all live (Romans 5: 15-21) Again, does all mean all? One of the most wretched dances I’ve ever witnessed to deny this verse comes from Calvinists who try to say that “all” means “all of the elect.” Calvinism is a ……………never mind. Again, I want to keep it family friendly. Let’s just say that Calvinism insults the character of God.

In Adam all die, in Christ, all live. (1 Corinthians 15:22) One of the strongest verses I’ve seen to declare that God leaves none of His children behind to be devoured by the evil one, even the most wicked and worst of His kids is included. (Yes, Virginia, even Adolf Hitler!) Remember, Saul of Tarsus [i.e. St. Paul] was a murderer just like Hitler. The only difference is in quantity, not quality. God saved Saul, God is not so weak that He can’t eventually save Schicklgruber.

All are reconciled unto God (Col 1:20). Does all really mean all, or only all of a certain class?

God will have mercy on all (Romans 11:32) All?

Jesus died for all (2 Corinthians 5:14-15). There’s that word all again! Did He die in vain? How can you possibly see the Cross as a victory if all do not eventually make it Home?

Yet, at the same time, it appears that there are verses which state that God only "elects" to save a certain elect number.

So here's my question - how do we reconcile the apparent contradiction in the Scriptures?
As we know, there is no contradiction as Scripture cannot contradict itself. God indeed saves all as the scriptures you quoted plainly state. Those who believe otherwise, have to quality "all" to mean "all (who believe)" but these scriptures contain no such caveat.
In fact if one were to carry out their reasoning to its logical extension. Adam's transgression would be greater than Christ's sacrifice which the scriptures do not uphold. Instead, Christ's sacrifice is greater than Adam's transgression as Rom 5:15-18 attests to:
15But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ! 18Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.

Thus since all in Adam die, all in Christ live. The sacrifice is not less than the transgression.
 
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Hammster

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If you are referring to the Calvinist idea of an arbitrary choice, made before the foundation of the world, with neither rhyme nor reason behind it, then my answer is that this idea is completely bogus and out of the character of God.
There’s no such thing as a “Calvinist idea of an arbitrary choice, made before the foundation of the world, with neither rhyme nor reason behind it.”
 
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Yesha

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Why when Christ was ministering did he only refer to humanity in two categories Sheep (those who are under Gods grace and are written in the book of life) and Goats? (Those who are not written and suffer judgement for sinning against God)

Why did Jesus say in John 10 that he willingly is giving his life for the sheep? And that he will "give my life for the sheep?"

If everybody can freely come to Jesus why did Jesus plainly say that nobody can come to him unless God the Father unhardens their heart and grants it to them? John 6:44, 66.

I know John says in 1 john that Christ died for the sins of the whole world but there have been valid arguments around that for over 500 years now? Why are those arguments not considered or being considered as valid interpretations of scripture? And why is it the only verse in the bible that says that Jesus died for all?

If Christ died for the world why did he say during his famous prayer just before he was handed over to pilate in John 17:1-10 that he was not praying for the world but "for those you have given me for they are yours" and previously from that all he talks about in his prayer are those who God the Father has given him?

Why would God even have written a book of life from before the foundation of the world which contained the very sheep of God? If he didnt die for the sheep? To explain myself further what would be the point of him suffering for the sins of the whole world if only those written in his book inherit salvation?


Why does all of Roman's 9 support this point?

If God died for the entire world tgan why hasnt the entire world been given the chance ag salvation? People cannot deny that there are people called and considered "doomed" in scripture. Like the entire world in Noah's time when they refused to go into Noah's arc and believe him that the flood was coming. God said that he regretted making them and that they will perish. Also, if they had hope, why did God seal the door shut? Did they honestly have the chance at salvation? What about Judas,Pilate, the Pharisees and the very soldiers that tortured and crucified Jesus making salvation possible for you and I? True Jesus said "forgive them" but in other instances of scripture they were called without hope so that the glory of God may be revealed.

Also, notice during his 3 days in sheol Jesus only rescued the "righteous" dead and left the unrighteous dead there. If he left them there, not only why does God call them doomed but why didnt he give them the chance at salvation if everyone has the chance of getting saved? Why did Isaiah prophecy that most of israel was not Israel and would perish? Was there hope of salvation for them? When Isaiah called them doomed to destruction?

Another way to approach the question is to ask, "What did Christ accomplish by his sacrifice?" The Westminster Confession gives a nice answer:

The Lord Jesus, by his perfect obedience and sacrifice of himself, which he through the eternal Spirit once offered up unto God, hath fully satisfied the justice of his Father; and purchased not only reconciliation, but an everlasting inheritance in the kingdom of heaven, for all those whom the Father hath given unto him. - WCF 8.5
 
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Deade

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We all have to face the question: If God is love why aren't all men saved?

But why didn't He choose everyone if He is love?

You cannot call a man unsaved until God has worked His overall plan out fully. That is, until after the millennial reign and the resurrection of "the rest of the dead" (Rev. 20:5). At that time all will know how to serve God. Even though some love evil, so much they will still turn away and be destroyed.
 
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zoidar

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You cannot call a man unsaved until God has worked His overall plan out fully. That is, until after the millennial reign and the resurrection of "the rest of the dead" (Rev. 20:5). At that time all will know how to serve God. Even though some love evil, so much they will still turn away and be destroyed.

Thanks for input! I would say it's not over til it's over, at the day of judgement.
 
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