God as much of a woman as a man

Well, God is the Author of both genders - so one must think he had it in there somewhere I guess. In the same way, difficult to create something like laughter or joy if you never had it in you to laugh.

I don't think God has a physical gender expression, but 'Father' may be the more descriptive role for the nature of the relationship he desires with us and has with us (or is willing to have with us) rather than 'Mother'. Especially in the context of the older cultures and with reference to making mankind 'heirs of the kingdom'. Inheiritance was passed down through the male side (kinda guessing at that, but probably correct). And probably a lot of discipline too. There are some things you go to mommy for and expect from mommy; they aren't always the same things you go to daddy for and expect from daddy. The 'mother' role would be expected to be second in command next to the 'father' role in these cultures (I think). So, designating himself Father, is pretty much saying 'first in command, no one above me in this house'

Just my thoughts.

GaveMeJoy said:

Disclaimer to male readers:


thanks! I’m mostly trying this out because I want to talk to my pastor about it but I don’t want to miss anything important. Thanks!

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Personally, I don't believe you are seeking feedback. It seems to be a deliberate attempt to start a controversial thread.

AlexDTX said:

It seems to be a deliberate attempt to start a controversial thread.

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And in the Controversial Christian Theology forum!
For Shame!

Petros2015 said:

And in the Controversial Christian Theology forum!
For Shame!

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Good point. Since I saw on home page I did not see the forum it was posted in. Thank you for pointing that out.

Radagast said:

I'm not sure how Proverbs 31 is relevant.

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God can not be a woman. God may communicate with a woman. The kingdom of God is within. Someone may not be Christ, but may be within Christ.

Luke 17:20 (WEB) Being asked by the Pharisees when God’s Kingdom would come, he answered them, “God’s Kingdom doesn’t come with observation; 21 neither will they say, ‘Look, here!’ or, ‘Look, there!’ for behold, God’s Kingdom is within you.”

2 Corinthians 5:17 (WEB) Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old things have passed away. Behold, all things have become new.

~Cassia~ said:

I prefer to stick to the biblical term of wisdom as female and very much a part of the trinity but each to their own.

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Who knows ????? His Word is very symbolic and coveys much through symbols, signs and parables ... so could be ... gender may or may not be in the terms as we relate to it physically in human terms at all ... we really do not know.

It sure would be enticing to try to deny such things as it leads to disavowing the heavily responsible row of a male in his household which regardless of physique or physical training and strength or experience would be a coward's plight..

GaveMeJoy said:

Disclaimer to male readers: I am a straight and manly 6 foot 200 pound man, who is red blooded and I am not a progressive or “feminist” or liberal. It’s ok to keep reading and not just dismiss it because you think I’m a woman.

God is a spirit being. God had no gender or physical representation. While Jesus manifested as a male human, he existed as a member of the triune God for eternity before creation.
While it can be argued Jesus is entirely male, there is no scriptural defense for the position that God is male in any way.


The scriptures use the male pronoun to refer to God by default, through translation, and because the scriptures were written in patriarchal societies where the male pronoun would be used for a deity.

As Goddess is a spirit and gender free, she does not have a gender.

The previous sentence sounds weird and is inaccurate. It also doesn’t use common scriptural male terms for God so it feels uncomfortable. However, it is equally as inaccurate as the following sentence:

As God is a spirit and gender free he does not have a gender.

God is not male. It’s OK to admit it, it won’t make you turn blue.

but seriously, where am I wrong, any scripture to demonstrate God is male? Do you have a problem with my perspective here shared (other than my Lame jokes) or is it acceptable theologically.

thanks! I’m mostly trying this out because I want to talk to my pastor about it but I don’t want to miss anything important. Thanks!

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Gender is part of the relational language that God uses to show in one form the proliferation of the truth that he is.

The bible begins with the masculine and ends with the masculine, begins with one, ends with one, but it is relative to the truth that can be seen in things like the two Enochs or the first and second forty, or what tree becomes the tree in the midst of the garden for the woman.

Gender in one type is seed time and a then a harvest from land the seed was planted in ... a perpetual truth.

ewq1938 said:

That verse doesn't say angels aren't males. It says they do not marry.

Angels are always male and often are confused for being human males because angels look human even though they aren't.

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They do not have testosterone or estrogen. They were usually described as being in the likeness of males, less commonly as women.

Zechariah 5:9 (WEB) Then I lifted up my eyes and saw, and behold, there were two women, and the wind was in their wings. Now they had wings like the wings of a stork, and they lifted up the ephah basket between earth and the sky.

Paidiske said:

But disembodied (unembodied?) maleness is meaningless.

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Yes but Genesis 2 has a chronological sequence of God's creation of first Adam and then Eve from Adam: God creates a man (in his image and likeness - Genesis 1), and breathes the spirit of life into him, then God gives the man He created the command regarding the trees and the one he may not eat of, then God says it's not good for man to be alone, then Adam names the animals, then God creates Eve out of Adam. Eve is bone of Adam's bones and flesh of Adam's flesh.

Eve learned the command from her husband. He received the command before she was created. The serpent approached Eve and asked her a question meant to sow doubt in her mind as to whether her husband correctly understood the command of God, or maybe even lied to her: "Hath God indeed said,". In her reply, Eve then adds a little ("neither shall you touch it) and takes a little away ("lest you die" when God had said they would surely die) from what God had commanded Adam in her reply,

so the serpent realizes he had neither sown doubt in Eve's mind as to what Adam heard or told her, nor as to what God had said, or the fact that God had commanded it - so he tells her a direct and deliberate lie: "You shall not surely die"

So God created a man in his own image and likeness, gave the man the command, then created the woman by taking her out of the man, and making her bone of the man's bones and flesh of his flesh. God is male. The Father of all creation.

In Christ there is neither male nor female, and Christ is God - but in the world there is both male and female.

God created men and women, that is like asking an artist, what kind of painting are you.

prodromos said:

John 4:24

God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.​

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The context of this verse and the word spirit used in John 4 is not saying God The Father is a spiritual being with no physical form.

prodromos said:

God is completely other than His creation. Scripture only makes reference to God in physical terms as a condescension to our human frailty.

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God walked in The Garden with Adam. They heard him audibly walking. The Bible is pretty clear. They heard the sound of the Lord God walking. The logical conclusion, the literal translations from original scripture, occam's razor, etc. God the Father, and Jesus, are physical manifestations of God, both of them. Heaven is a physical place he resides in above The Earth. This does not mean there is no spirituality or spiritual interactions between him and us, however in all honestly while I do believe in all of this whole heartedly, I would imagine our spirit is much more based in reality than people imagine.

I don't plan on changing anyone's mind over this, the concept of God and most of his creations being physical and very hard set in reality, OUR reality, is something not many Christians play around with or even delve into the concept as a possibility, but not only does is it fully compatible with the scripture it'll also help us win a lot more people over to our side, particularly younger generations.

Aussie Pete said:

God created Adam in His image. It was God's intent that man should also be in God's image. If Adam had eaten from the tree of Life, we would not be having this conversation. God uses male speech to speak of Himself. God is Father, God is He. From our point of view and our understanding, God is male.

Eve was taken from Adam, which is symbolic of the church being taken out of Christ. As Adam was caused to sleep so that Eve could be formed, so the Lord Jesus "slept" - a euphemism for death. I don't believe it is helpful to mess with the Bible. I do not believe that God can rightly be called Goddess. Worshipping females is occult and/or pagan.

In Christ, there is neither male or female. (Real) Christians are equal in God's sight. However, God appoints various roles to each one who is born again. Many of the problems in the Christian life are due to neglect of the ministries that God has given. A foot trying to be an eye is a recipe for trouble. Most churches don't even consider the calling that the members might have. Control and ministry is centred on the pastor in most cases. Yet the role of pastor barely rates a mention in the New Testament. How far we have drifted from God's plan and purpose.

Robert Morris has good insight into this issue.

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I agree with your statement. People also overlook Genesis 2, which gives more detail on God's creation of Adam:

In Genesis 1, we are told God created man in his own image and likeness, and created them male and female - and in Genesis 2, we read about God creating man first, giving the man the command regarding the trees, then saying, "It is not good for man to be alone", then we read about Adam (not Eve, but Adam alone) naming the animals, then we read about God creating Eve from Adam and Eve becoming bone of Adam's bone and flesh of his flesh.

The serpent goes to Eve and asks, "Hath God indeed said.." implying that Adam had either lied to her, or misunderstood what God had said. It also implies that Eve had learned the command from her husband.

Eve showed by her reply that she was not present when Adam received the command, because she adds a little ("neither shall you touch it") and takes away a little ("lest you die" when God had told Adam he would surely die).

Eve also shows by her reply that the serpent had not succeeded in sowing doubt in her mind regarding either her husband's word, nor regarding what Gd had said or that He had said it, so the serpent resorts to a blatant lie, correcting Eve's reply in the process: "You shall not surely die" (almost as though to say, "See, I heard what God said, but you learned it from your husband"). Then like a clever salesman who had approached the woman while her husband was at work, he tells her about the so-called "benefits of the product", and Eve begins to think ..

Satan was indeed cunning, just as Genesis 2 tells us - but Genesis 2 also tells us that God created a man in His image and gave the man the command, got the man to name all the animals, then created the woman from the man, and the man told his wife the command.

Here's how I see it.

There is a order to creation in that we are created in the image of God* and not the other way around. We as imagers of God reflect many a good quality or characteristics, men and women in their unique ways, imagers. These still are not to be twisted into God being like us, he is not. We get from him not the other way around.

Even angels are imagers of God in their respected ways, but God is not an angel, except he appeared as the Angel of the Lord, the pre-incarnate Christ; nor a man, save he came as a man, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Again men and women reflect the image of God and we can learn alot about him through this imaging, as long as we don't mix things up.


1John 3:2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.


Romans 8:29
This is true because he already knew his people and had already appointed them to have the same form as the image of his Son. Therefore, his Son is the firstborn among many children.
GOD'S WORD® Translation

* Genesis 1:27

GaveMeJoy said:

Disclaimer to male readers: I am a straight and manly 6 foot 200 pound man, who is red blooded and I am not a progressive or “feminist” or liberal. It’s ok to keep reading and not just dismiss it because you think I’m a woman... *snipped*

...but seriously, where am I wrong, any scripture to demonstrate God is male? Do you have a problem with my perspective here shared (other than my Lame jokes) or is it acceptable theologically.

thanks! I’m mostly trying this out because I want to talk to my pastor about it but I don’t want to miss anything important. Thanks!

Click to expand...

Remember that God created Adam first, and then saw he wasn't suited to be on his own, and then He created Eve. Yes, both of them were made in His image, and women are just as much God's image as men are. However, God represents Himself to us as the "Father" and the "Son"; both clearly male roles.

The Holy Spirit (though referred to as "He" in Scripture) takes on a less concrete form, as far as gender goes. The Spirit is seen as a dove, a flame, a cloud, an angel-like being. Not so much male or female. I also think it's noteworthy that the Spirit is described as having traits that are more feminine; gentle, easily grieved, kind, patient, helpful, comforting.

As a woman, I'm not at all threatened or diminished by thinking of God as a Father figure. I do think it's important, however, that we start to learn and teach that God encompasses all the traits of humanity; male and female.

I'm not saying any of this is right or written in stone. They're just my thoughts

Hermit76 said:

You know as well as I do that maleness goes beyond a biological function. The function is dependent on the gender. The assigned roles for each gender reflect this distinction. The male priesthood is just one example of this.

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So do you think I said that just to mesa with someone?

The assigned roles for each gender are not universal. Even within Orthodoxy. Now it's some kind of blubbering nonsense if a man cries. But in a different culture, such as that of St. Boris and Gleb, crying was a sign of masculinity.

And you're talking about gender, which is not the same as sex. Maleness refers to sex.

The male priesthood (in the OC) has nothing at all to do with whether maleness is a biological trait.

GaveMeJoy said:

Disclaimer to male readers: I am a straight and manly 6 foot 200 pound man, who is red blooded and I am not a progressive or “feminist” or liberal. It’s ok to keep reading and not just dismiss it because you think I’m a woman.

God is a spirit being. God had no gender or physical representation. While Jesus manifested as a male human, he existed as a member of the triune God for eternity before creation.
While it can be argued Jesus is entirely male, there is no scriptural defense for the position that God is male in any way.


The scriptures use the male pronoun to refer to God by default, through translation, and because the scriptures were written in patriarchal societies where the male pronoun would be used for a deity.

As Goddess is a spirit and gender free, she does not have a gender.

The previous sentence sounds weird and is inaccurate. It also doesn’t use common scriptural male terms for God so it feels uncomfortable. However, it is equally as inaccurate as the following sentence:

As God is a spirit and gender free he does not have a gender.

God is not male. It’s OK to admit it, it won’t make you turn blue.

but seriously, where am I wrong, any scripture to demonstrate God is male? Do you have a problem with my perspective here shared (other than my Lame jokes) or is it acceptable theologically.

thanks! I’m mostly trying this out because I want to talk to my pastor about it but I don’t want to miss anything important. Thanks!

Click to expand...

God is both male and female. God cannot create something that he is not.
John 14:9 Jesus Christ said "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father."
John 4:24 says God is spirit.
Jesus Christ manifested as a man but he was not entirely male because he does not have a physical/biological father and Mary was not an ordinary woman(you can read The Gospel of Birth of Mary). He is spiritual like the Father in heaven and lives within us(Men and women).
May God Bless

GaveMeJoy said:

God is a spirit being.

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If by that you mean "God is a being who is spirit, then yes that is correct. This is clearly stated in John 4:24.

GaveMeJoy said:

God had no gender or physical representation.

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That is incorrect. God made man in His image; male and female He made them. God, therefore has gender representation. Throughout the Bible God is presented in both masculine and feminine terms, male and female terms. God is called a "rock," "shield," "fortress," and "strength, all of which are masculine terms in Hebrew. Alternatively, God, Who is "El Shaddai," is literally God the capable or able breast, a decidedly feminine reference. Elsewhere we read how God is like a mother hen yearning for her chicks. The Bible is filled with these gendered references.

So, God has gender representation in the Bible.

As to the matter of "physical representation," why would you think a spirit being has any physical representation? More on that later.

GaveMeJoy said:

While Jesus manifested as a male human, he existed as a member of the triune God for eternity before creation.

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Yes, and He did so as a male. 1 Peter 1:20 tells us Jesus was foreknown before the foundation of the world.

GaveMeJoy said:

While it can be argued Jesus is entirely male, there is no scriptural defense for the position that God is male in any way.

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Fail. Sure there is. God has both maleness and femaleness and it is from the maleness and femaleness that He made humanity in His image male and female AND His Son (a male term) was foreknown before the world was created.

GaveMeJoy said:

The scriptures use the male pronoun to refer to God by default, through translation, and because the scriptures were written in patriarchal societies where the male pronoun would be used for a deity.

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No, not be "default." Yes, there are cultural and patriarchal influences, but GOD is the One responsible for His own revelation (both oral and written). The male pronoun isn't just a function of human conditions; it is a function of God condition, the God who made man in His image both male and female, and we understand this for many reasons, not just the masculine pronouns.

GaveMeJoy said:

As Goddess is a spirit and gender free, she does not have a gender.

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Fail. By attaching the "-ess" to the word "God" the word is made gendered!

The word "God" could be either ale or female or neither or both but the word "goddess" can be only female. Show me a male goddess and I'll change my mind.

Show me where scripture reports God (a gender neutral term in and of itself) as a goddess and I'll reconsider.

GaveMeJoy said:

The previous sentence sounds weird and is inaccurate. It also doesn’t use common scriptural male terms for God so it feels uncomfortable. However, it is equally as inaccurate as the following sentence:

As God is a spirit and gender free he does not have a gender.

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Except goddess not gender-free.

GaveMeJoy said:

God is not male. It’s OK to admit it, it won’t make you turn blue.

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Well I don't know what "admit" means because so far the case made in this op is a Fail. It contains several logical errors beginning with but not limited to fallacies of construction (from part to whole), false causes, and false dichotomies. Furthermore, it doesn't contain an single bit of scripture.


Fundamentally, you have to first justify the existence of sex and gender for the Creator, GaveMeJoy. Until that is done the entire premise is a red herring! God is not limited to a binary condition such a "male" or "female." He is and can be both and more! The scripture could have read, "In the beginning God mad man in His image; male, and female, and quazziflibber, and zimbunchak He made them and all four of those earthly conditions would be "representations" of His "gender."

God is not human. God made humans. God made humans when there were no humans. God made the sexes. The existence of humans does not mean God is human. The existence of human sexes does not mean God has any sex, much less either of the binary condition humans have.

You've got an epic Fail in logic going on here!

So you'll forgive me if I don't "admit" anything but instead to turn to you and say, "Come on. Admit it: you didn't think this nosense through at all, did you? Admit it: you don't have any scripture to support your position. Admit it: you massively failed logically. Admit it: this is a huge facepalm.

Admit it.

GaveMeJoy said:

but seriously, where am I wrong...

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Well, you're wrong from the outset to assume sex or gener has anything ontologically to do with God. You can't build a case for something that might not exist. You could get to heaven and ask God, "Hey God, which are you, male or female?" and He might answer, "What?!?!?! What on earth (pun intended) are you talking about, you silly human?" Would you be surprised if God dropped trou and had the same thing G. I. Joe and Barbie have where real humans have genitalia? Or do you expect God to have an actual penis or a vagina or both?

How is it you imagine God has reproductive organs? What need does a Creator Who can speak things into existence have for reproductive organs? What need does he have for gender?

Can you understand the logic of a God who reproduces other Gods? By definition there can be only one big-G God of the Bible. Two sovereign almighty Gods is a contradiction in terms, it is self-contradictory, self-refuting. God cannot reproduce Himself; it is a logical impossibility (like a spherical cube or a rock too heavy for Him to lift).

So before you can make the case for a gendered or genderless God, much less a God that is female you've first got to make the case that sex or gender is relevant or applicable to God...


...and you have not come anywhere close to doing that!

GaveMeJoy said:

...any scripture to demonstrate God is male?

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Already done.

GaveMeJoy said:

Do you have a problem with my perspective here shared or is it acceptable theologically.

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Both scripturally and logically there are many problems and theologically it is untenable because it assumes something nowhere in evidence: the idea creature condition of sex and/or gender are applicable or relevant to the Creator.

GaveMeJoy said:

thanks! I’m mostly trying this out because I want to talk to my pastor about it but I don’t want to
miss anything important. Thanks!

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Yeah, I'd save yourself some embarrassment and spend the time reading a book on basic logic and then another on sound exegesis.



What makes you think sex/gender existed prior to creation?

OrdineeeBe said:

The context of this verse and the word spirit used in John 4 is not saying God The Father is a spiritual being with no physical form.

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You make this claim yet you offer no alternative context and meaning. What do you claim is the context and meaning of "God is spirit"?

God walked in The Garden with Adam. They heard him audibly walking. The Bible is pretty clear. They heard the sound of the Lord God walking. The logical conclusion, the literal translations from original scripture, occam's razor, etc. God the Father, and Jesus, are physical manifestations of God, both of them.

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God's interaction with Moses and Elijah say otherwise.