Hebrews 12:11 King James Version (KJV)
11 Now no chastening (paideia) for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
Whoops, God seems disagrees with you
And if those in the lake of fire are his children, would he not wish to paideia them because He loves them???????????????????????????????????????
What disagreement? And, no, those in the LOF are not His children - yet.
(Acts 17:28): “For 'in him we live and move and have our being'; as even some of your own poets have said, 'For we too are his offspring. '”
"For God so loved the world..." (Jn.3:16a)
But if ou wish to use this argument than you sink your own argument! If they stopped being believers, then God is still chastening them as instruction WHILE ACCORDING TO YOU THEY ARE UNBELIEVERS! Not kolasis, not timera, not diorthosi, nor sophronismos or epanorthis.
Considering they appear to be as bad or worse than those of Mt.25:46, it would appear to support my view that the goats are to be receiving corrective punishment. As opposed to pointless endless Hitler like gassing or tortures that have no end. Which Jesus could have expressed very clearly & unambiguously, if He desired or if He believed in such. But He didn't.
As for 1 Tim.1:19-20 being a chastening as instruction, i question if that was the nature of this punishment, since they were to be given over to Satan (cf. 1 Cor.5 where the being given over to Satan involves destruction of the flesh). Compare also:
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known
it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. (2 Peter 2:21)
Matt. 25 if punishment is not everlasting, then life as well is not everlasting!
Clearly you don't understand how adjectives work. See below.
XYZ said:
They are both exact! so if the aionios kolasis is temporary, then the aionios zoe is temporary as well. You cannot have it mean differing things in the same passage!
That's your assumption which just ignores & does not address what i posted, & the case made here:
Is aionion necessarily coequal in duration with aionion (in Mt.25:46)?
Even if the 2 aionios are coequal in Mt.25:46, that is harmonious with universalism:
Augustine's ignorance & error re Matthew 25:46
XYZ said:
It is repeating a line of argument that, so far, you have not even come close to successfully refuting.
You claim Mt.25:46 as a proof text against universalism. I showed 2 separate reasonable universalist interpretations of the text. In order for your "proof text" interpretation to remain a "proof" you must refute both of my reasonable universalist interpretations & prove them false. Since you've failed to do so, your "proof text" fails as a "proof text". All you are left with, therefore, is a theory, while being unable to refute the 2 alternate reasonable interpretations that I posted, as follows:
There are two main universalist interpretations of Mt.25:46:
(1) The aionion life & the aionion punishment refer to contrasting eonian destinies pertaining to a finite eonian period to come, e.g. the millennial eon. The verse has nothing to do, & says nothing about, final destiny. Regarding the endless life of the righteous in Christ, other passages address that topic, such as those that speak of immortality, incorruption & being unable to die.
(2) Another universalist option in interpretating Mt.25:46 is that aionion life refers to a perpetual life that lasts as long as God Almighty wills it to last, so it is endless. OTOH, aionion punishment refers to a perpetual punishment that also lasts as long as Love Omnipotent wills it to last, which is until it has served its useful purpose in bringing the offender to the salvation in their Savior, Who died & shed His blood for their sins. While life is an end in itself, punishment is a means to an end.
Furthermore, since aionion is an adjective, it "must therefore function like an adjective, and it is the very nature of an adjective for its meaning to vary, sometimes greatly, depending upon which noun it qualifies." A tall chair is not the same height as a tall mountain. Likewise, the aionion punishment is not of the same duration as the aionion life.
That was a brief explanation of the main two different universalist interpretations of Mt.25:46. Following are more elaborate remarks in support of these two perspectives:
Augustine's ignorance & error re Matthew 25:46
Is aionion necessarily coequal in duration with aionion (in Mt.25:46)?
XYZ said:
It is not an assumption that Matthew 25:46 employs a parallel, but a plain fact.
Interpretation 1 above accepts the parallel of "eonian destinies". So the parallel there is not denied. Likewise interpretation 2 above acknowledging parallel perpetual destinies. But that the word perpetual can vary according to its subject.
XYZ said:
Let us look at this verse again:
"And these shall go away into eternal (aiōnios) punishment: but the righteous into life eternal (aiōnios)" (Mt.25:26).
Since the structure of this verse is best described as being a "parallelism" then the Greek word
aiōnios must carry with it the same meaning in both instances where it is used.
Then, by the same reasoning, the "parallel" in Rom.5:19 proves Scriptural universalism to be true:
Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."
Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."
1 Cor.15:22 AS in Adam ALL die SO ALSO in Christ shall ALL be made alive.
1 Cor.15:28 And when ALL shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put ALL under him, that God may be all in ALL.
Col.1:16 For by Him ***ALL*** was created that are in HEAVEN and that are on EARTH, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All was created through Him and for Him.
20 and by Him to reconcile ***ALL*** to Himself, by Him, whether on EARTH or in HEAVEN, having made peace through the blood of His cross.
And your translation of Mt.25:46 contradicts this translation of Lamentations 3:
Lam.3:31 For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:
32 For if He causes grief, Then He will have compassion According to His abundant lovingkindness. 33 For He does not afflict willingly Or grieve the SONS OF MEN.
While these translations (& others) of Mt.25:46 are in harmony with all the verses above i have posted:
The New Testament: A Translation, by Eastern Orthodox scholar David Bentley Hart, 2017, Yale Press):
"And these shall go to the chastening of that Age, but the just to the life of that Age."
Youngs Literal Translation of the Holy Bible, 1898:
"And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during."
Emphatic Diaglott, 1942 edition
"And these shall go forth to the aionian 1 cutting-off; but the RIGHTEOUS to aionian Life."
Concordant Literal New Testament, 1983
And these shall be coming away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian."
Rotherham Emphasized Bible, 1959
"And these shall go away into age-abiding correction, But the righteous into age-abiding life."