Confused about something in Luke

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What does this verse mean..?

Luke 14:10

But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when
he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher:
then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat
with thee.
 

icxn

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It means to place (in disposition) ourselves with those in hell. There's no lower place than that in Christ's wedding feast:

Quote:

Saint Anthony at some point in his life thought to himself “I wonder with whose spiritual achievements my spiritual life can be compared with”. God, however, in order to humble his thought revealed to him in a dream that superior to him was a shoe-maker who had a store in the back streets of Alexandria.
Once it was daybreak, the saint took his staff and headed off to the city. He wanted to meet in person this famed shoe-maker and see his virtues. With great difficulty he discovered his store, sat down at the counter and began asking about his life.
The man was simple and didn’t even occur to him who this elderly monk was that had come so unexpectedly into his store querying him. The man, while continuing to work and without taking his eyes off the shoes he was working on replied gently;
“Elder, I don’t know if I have ever done anything good. Every morning after waking up, I pray and then I start work. First, I think to myself how every person in this city, from the smallest to the greatest will be saved, and only I will be condemned due to my countless transgressions.
And in the evening when I go to sleep I have the same thoughts.
The Elder rose with wonder and embraced and kissed him and said with emotion:
“You, my brother, like a good merchant, have gained the priceless pearl without toil. I have grown old in the desert, sweated and toiled but have not reached your level of humility.”​
 
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Sabertooth

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What does this verse mean..?
My straight read is that it's better to underestimate your own social status than it is to overestimate it. (Subsequent corrections are less painful.)
 
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It means to place (in disposition) ourselves with those in hell. There's no lower place than that in Christ's wedding feast:

Quote:

Saint Anthony at some point in his life thought to himself “I wonder with whose spiritual achievements my spiritual life can be compared with”. God, however, in order to humble his thought revealed to him in a dream that superior to him was a shoe-maker who had a store in the back streets of Alexandria.
Once it was daybreak, the saint took his staff and headed off to the city. He wanted to meet in person this famed shoe-maker and see his virtues. With great difficulty he discovered his store, sat down at the counter and began asking about his life.
The man was simple and didn’t even occur to him who this elderly monk was that had come so unexpectedly into his store querying him. The man, while continuing to work and without taking his eyes off the shoes he was working on replied gently;
“Elder, I don’t know if I have ever done anything good. Every morning after waking up, I pray and then I start work. First, I think to myself how every person in this city, from the smallest to the greatest will be saved, and only I will be condemned due to my countless transgressions.
And in the evening when I go to sleep I have the same thoughts.
The Elder rose with wonder and embraced and kissed him and said with emotion:
“You, my brother, like a good merchant, have gained the priceless pearl without toil. I have grown old in the desert, sweated and toiled but have not reached your level of humility.”​

What are you talking about? The verse has something to do with being at a dinner. Your story about Saint Anthony has zero to do with what this verse means.
 
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As mentioned, humility among other important points. The parable of the last place at the feast.

You didn't answer the revised question. I'm not asking about what lesson He was teaching; what do the words mean?
 
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Luke 14:10 New International Version (NIV)
10 But when you are invited, take the lowest place, so that when your host comes, he will say to you, ‘Friend, move up to a better place.’ Then you will be honored in the presence of all the other guests.
 
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Michie

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ST. LUKE in immediate connection with the preceding parable records the following words regarding the inviting of poor guests to the feast:

Luk 14:12 And he said to him also that had invited him: When thou makest a dinner or a supper, call not thy friends nor thy brethren nor thy kinsmen nor thy neighbours who are rich; lest perhaps they also invite thee again, and a recompense be made to thee.
Luk 14:13 But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame and the blind.
Luk 14:14 And thou shalt be blessed, because they have not wherewith to make thee recompense: for recompense shall be made thee at the resurrection of the just
.

The Evangelist does not, as in the case of the preceding simile, expressly describe these words as a parable; but they have equally the parabolic characteristics, and are entitled to be at least briefly considered amongst the parables.

After our Lord in the simile of the last place at the table had pointed out especially to those amongst the guests who were ambitious of honors the necessity of humility, He turned to the host himself and proceeded to give him also an important lesson. In the striving for the first places at the banquet, one side of the proud Pharisaical spirit had been manifested. And now a glance at the guests who had been invited to the feast revealed another perverse tendency of the same spirit: selfishness and the seeking for earthly reward.

Our Lord had already uttered emphatic words of warning against this looking for a return from man for the performance of good works: “For if you love them that love you, what reward shall you have? do not even the publicans do this? And if you salute your brethren only, whatdo you more? do not also the heathens this? And if you do good to them who do good to you, what thanks do you deserve? for sinners also do this. And if you lend to them of whom you hope to receive, what thanks are due to you? for sinners also lend to sinners, in order to receive as much” (Mt. 5, 46 et seq.; Lk. 6, 32-34).

This distinguished Pharisee, as must be inferred from the words, when issuing his invitations for the Sabbath feast, animated by such a hope of return, had let himself be influenced in his choice of guests by considerations of friendship, of kinship, of wealth, and of neighborliness. Christ, therefore, reminded him that it was not good to act merely from such selfish motives; because by this he forfeited the rewards of God. But, on the other hand, these rewards should be his if he allowed the poor and the needy to partake of his banquet.

But neither in the previous words on charity and the doing of good in general, nor in the present exhortation, are we forbidden to invite friends, relatives, or neighbors. “In your works seek not for transitory earthly reward, but rather for the eternal,”- such is the substance of this brief discourse and the lesson, intelligible to all, which it contains.

Although this lesson is illustrated by the example of invitations to a feast, as was appropriate to the circumstances, at the same time it applies in the same way to all similar situations and actions in daily life. It is precisely because this universal lesson is illustrated by an example taken from ordinary life and refers to the supernatural order that we are justified in considering that the words are of a parabolic character.

The words offer no special difficulty; but for an explanation of them separately we must refer to the commentaries.


Father Lepold Fonck’s Commentary on Luke 14, 1, 7-14
 
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Luke 14:10 New International Version (NIV)
10 But when you are invited, take the lowest place, so that when your host comes, he will say to you, ‘Friend, move up to a better place.’ Then you will be honored in the presence of all the other guests.

Thank you! I asked the question to show how the 17th Century English of the King James and other Bibles of that time obscure the meaning of the text. The people who read those difficult-to-understand versions must do some type of translation in their minds into contemporary language, with a significant chance of error.

The NIV is a great translation of the early texts. One of my favorite Bibles is the NIV First Century Study Bible. You have to open the leather-bound version as though it was an ancient scroll(!) and it is filled with many explanatory notes, articles, and maps that really help in understanding the meaning of the biblical text.
 
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Basically, it is a reiteration of Matt 23:12 and is explained in the last half of verse 10 and verse 11, "so that when your host comes he may say to you, ‘Friend, move up higher.’ Then you will be honored in the presence of all who sit at table with you. 11 For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.” ESV

At such an event it was the custom to have places of honor to sit, probably close to the host's place and or in the better furniture and less honorable places, probably farther from the host and/or in the lesser furniture or on the floor. Similar to today's customs, however informal or not discussed. The words say it is better to humble oneself and not presume they are of the highest honor of all guests but rather humble themselves and realize that there is always some one better than them or of higher honor and to leave a place for such and assume a lesser place. If the host sees this and decides to elevate you to a higher place a later arriving guest of higher honor than you will have to assume a place of lower honor as his host is also yours and if he wants to partake of the feast he will sit where the host desires. If you sit in the high honor place first you can easily be shamed later in the same scenario as you will have presumed for the host that you are the highest honored guest and seized a place he had in mind for another and the host AND higher honored guest will demand your humility as opposed to you having volunteered it in the former case.
 
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What motive would there be to obscure the meaning in this case?
I don't think pescador thinks anyone was deliberately trying to obscure the passage, its just that he severely dislikes the KJV of the bible. And was not asking for an interpretation of the verse, rather literally what do the individual words mean! Why he choose this particular verse, I'm not sure. Older English is not his favorite. :)
 
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What motive would there be to obscure the meaning in this case?

I doubt there was any motive to obscure the meaning of the verse. My point was to show that when one uses a Bible translation that is not in the language that we use today there must be some sort of translation that goes on in the user's head. Nobody speaks, writes, or thinks in the language of Luke 14:10 today. In this forum, for example, I have not read a single post that is written 17th Century (or earlier) English.

People erroneously think that the original texts were written in some sort of language that was not in common use in that time. For example, the manuscripts of the New Testament time were written in Koine Greek, the widely understood language of the Roman world. The people of the region, including Jesus, spoke Aramaic, "a Semitic language, a Syrian dialect of which was used as a lingua franca in the Near East from the 6th century BC. It gradually replaced Hebrew as the language of the Jews in those areas and was itself supplanted by Arabic in the 7th century AD." The main Bible in use was the Septuagint, "a Greek version of the Hebrew Bible (or Old Testament), including the Apocrypha, made for Greek-speaking Jews in Egypt in the 3rd and 2nd centuries BC and adopted by the early Christian Churches".

It is bizarre to me that people think that they can clearly understand 17th Century English, when neither today's culture or language are anything like the way they were more than 400 years ago. "Language is culture." When I was an undergraduate studying human geography, the most appropriate way to divide up the world was by language, not by political boundaries or physical features.

The only reasons that I can think of that people still use the King James Bible are 1) it makes them feel religious and superior, or 2 (doubtful) that they are lovers of archaic prose.

I am a strong believer in the dynamic equivalence method of translation. "Dynamic equivalence is a method of Bible translation that seeks to reproduce the original text of Scripture using modern language and expression to communicate the message of the Bible. In translating a verse, dynamic equivalent translation is less concerned with providing an exact English word for each word of the original text as it is with communicating the basic message of that verse. Considering the original context, culture, figures of speech, and other effects on language, dynamic equivalence seeks for today’s Bible readers to understand the text in the same way (or with the closest similarity in meaning as possible) as those to whom it was first addressed. (emphasis mine)

I want to understand what the original texts meant to the people at the time they were written. We are about 2000 years(!) and much longer from when the "books" of the Bible were written, and I want above all to understand them as though I was one of the original hearers. I believe that God wants His words to be clearly understood regardless of time, place, or culture.
 
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I don't think pescador thinks anyone was deliberately trying to obscure the passage, its just that he severely dislikes the KJV of the bible. And was not asking for an interpretation of the verse, rather literally what do the individual words mean! Why he choose this particular verse, I'm not sure. Older English is not his favorite. :)

I chose it because it is one of the most difficult verses in the New Testament to understand without some sort of "mental gymnastics". It may or may not have been clear to people living in the early 17th Century, but it sure ain't clear today.

I haven't gone through the entire Bible looking for the most obscure verses but I use this one as an example. I bet if you asked people to "translate" it you would come up with a lot of answers.
 
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