Help with Matt 12:46-50

coffee4u said:

Why would they be? I doubt that God would have tasked Joseph as Jesus' earthy father if he were divorced. I guess widowed is possible

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There is a common belief that Joseph was a widower and that Mary was his second wife. This is because Joseph just vanishes from the story without a trace. He just doesn't seem to be around when Jesus is an adult. The obvious explanation is that he is dead by then, which suggests someone older than Mary. That view has influenced artwork like this:



There is also a question of family dynamics. It seems that John was a (younger) cousin of Jesus (if you compare the names of women at the cross, his mother was probably Mary's sister). John seems to have had great respect for Jesus from the very start.

But with older half-brothers of Jesus, it is perhaps more likely that we might have some behaviour like the sons of Jacob ("who is this boy that thinks he's so special?").

Of course, it's still possible that some of Jesus' brothers (James and Jude, perhaps) were among the 12 disciples.

Carl Emerson said:

46While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. 47Someone said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You.” 48But Jesus answered the one who was telling Him and said, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” 49And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, “Behold My mother and My brothers! 50“For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother.”

It puzzles me that with all the first hand knowledge of Jesus wisdom and divine powers, that His own family seemed to relate from a distance. This includes Mary who had deep revelation about who He really was.

I assume He had the lifestyle of an itinerant rabbi and was always on the move - staying in homes of his followers.

Verse 50 even implies that His family were out of God's will.

This is a puzzle to me - there is little mention of them being among His followers.

Had unbelief crept in among His family members?

Your thoughts very much appreciated.

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According to some historians, the family of Lord Jesus were not convinced. Apart from the angelic visitations, it seems Lord Jesus had done nothing out of the ordinary, with one exception. He stayed behind at the temple to debate the Law, amazing the hearers with His knowledge. The family left without Him, not what you'd expect from a loving family protecting the future messiah.

The Lord Jesus warned that our enemies would be those of our own households. I wonder if He spoke from experience.....

To me, it is proof that spiritual blindness is the lot of all born of Adam. That applies to the family of Lord Jesus as much as anyone else. James is the only one that we know of the siblings that came to believe. It's not enough to see signs and wonders. Mary was at the tomb to embalm Lord Jesus. She did not expect an empty tomb any more than the other disciples. The resurrection changed everything, of course. There is nothing like an empty tomb to get people thinking!

Food for thought:

"Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers(5) For neither did his brethren believe.—Comp. Note on John 7:3. The words do not admit of any other meaning than the obvious one that even His brethren did not at this time believe Him to be the Messiah. That they are found in the very first chapter of the Acts of the Apostles joining with the Apostles, and the women, and Mary, with one accord in prayer (John 7:14), is one of the striking instances of the hardened ground of human hearts passing into the fruitful ground receptive of the seed, as the case of Judas at the close of the last chapter is an instance of the opposite. For the immediate cause of the decisive change, see 1Corinthians 15:7."

"Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary3-5. His brethren said—(See on [1798]Mt 13:54-56).
Depart … into Judea, &c.—In Joh 7:5 this speech is ascribed to their unbelief. But as they were in the "upper room" among the one hundred and twenty disciples who waited for the descent of the Spirit after the Lord's ascension (Ac 1:14), they seem to have had their prejudices removed, perhaps after His resurrection. Indeed here their language is more that of strong prejudice and suspicion (such as near relatives, even the best, too frequently show in such cases), than from unbelief. There was also, probably, a tincture of vanity in it. "Thou hast many disciples in Judea; here in Galilee they are fast dropping off; it is not like one who advances the claims Thou dost to linger so long here, away from the city of our solemnities, where surely 'the kingdom of our father David' is to be set up: 'seeking,' as Thou dost, 'to be known openly,' those miracles of Thine ought not to be confined to this distant corner, but submitted at headquarters to the inspection of 'the world.'" (See Ps 69:8, "I am become a stranger to my brethren, an alien unto my mother's children!")"
Pasted from: John 7:5 Commentaries: For not even His brothers were believing in Him.

Carl Emerson said:

46While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. 47Someone said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You.” 48But Jesus answered the one who was telling Him and said, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” 49And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, “Behold My mother and My brothers! 50“For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother.”

It puzzles me that with all the first hand knowledge of Jesus wisdom and divine powers, that His own family seemed to relate from a distance. This includes Mary who had deep revelation about who He really was.

I assume He had the lifestyle of an itinerant rabbi and was always on the move - staying in homes of his followers.

Verse 50 even implies that His family were out of God's will.

This is a puzzle to me - there is little mention of them being among His followers.

Had unbelief crept in among His family members?

Your thoughts very much appreciated.

Click to expand...

I believe that at this time His mother and family were not believers. That they didn't believe that He was the messiah...

Carl Emerson said:

46While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. 47Someone said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You.” 48But Jesus answered the one who was telling Him and said, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” 49And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, “Behold My mother and My brothers! 50“For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother.”

It puzzles me that with all the first hand knowledge of Jesus wisdom and divine powers, that His own family seemed to relate from a distance. This includes Mary who had deep revelation about who He really was.

I assume He had the lifestyle of an itinerant rabbi and was always on the move - staying in homes of his followers.

Verse 50 even implies that His family were out of God's will.

This is a puzzle to me - there is little mention of them being among His followers.

Had unbelief crept in among His family members?

Your thoughts very much appreciated.

Click to expand...

We need to look beyond our view of the relationship we have with our earthly family. Jesus Christ of Nazareth was making a point that those in the Kingdom of God are those He will be with after judgment day, this also, most likely will include His immediate earthly family that this person was referring to. So rather than look at this with puzzlement one can view it with more insight into God's desire for us to do His will on earth. Jesus Christ of Nazareth came for the lost so that this eternal family will exist with Him. So the moral of the story is not that Christ had little love for His mother it is the opposite, He has love for the world. In other words, He loves the world equally as much as He loves His mother. He made it clear though that only those who do the will of His Father can be in His family and enter into His Kingdom where He is King.
Be blessed and stay healthy!

Carl Emerson said:

46While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. 47Someone said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You.” 48But Jesus answered the one who was telling Him and said, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” 49And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, “Behold My mother and My brothers! 50“For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother.”

It puzzles me that with all the first hand knowledge of Jesus wisdom and divine powers, that His own family seemed to relate from a distance. This includes Mary who had deep revelation about who He really was.

I assume He had the lifestyle of an itinerant rabbi and was always on the move - staying in homes of his followers.

Verse 50 even implies that His family were out of God's will.

This is a puzzle to me - there is little mention of them being among His followers.

Had unbelief crept in among His family members?

Your thoughts very much appreciated.

Click to expand...

Even the greatest born of women had his doubts ... face it ... eat my flesh and drink my blood doesn't win you any converts ...

Carl Emerson said:

46While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. 47Someone said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You.” 48But Jesus answered the one who was telling Him and said, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” 49And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, “Behold My mother and My brothers! 50“For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother.”

It puzzles me that with all the first hand knowledge of Jesus wisdom and divine powers, that His own family seemed to relate from a distance. This includes Mary who had deep revelation about who He really was.

I assume He had the lifestyle of an itinerant rabbi and was always on the move - staying in homes of his followers.

Verse 50 even implies that His family were out of God's will.

This is a puzzle to me - there is little mention of them being among His followers.

Had unbelief crept in among His family members?

Your thoughts very much appreciated.

Click to expand...

Hi Carl.

Two points to consider. First, we know Jesus could do only a few small miracles in Nazareth. Why? Because it was too hard for the people who knew he was a baby that grew up with them into manhood to be the Messiah. Their unbelief may have been filtered by their own preconceived notions of how the Messiah should appear. Another possibility is their own pride. They never thought of him as anything other than another person and pride hates to admit when they are wrong.

Second, during the Passion week, his brothers mocked him and told him that if he was the Messiah, then go to Jerusalem openly and declare yourself as such. Jesus said that his time was not yet, but he did go secretly then began to minister publicly in Jerusalem for that week.

While Jacob (James) his half brother is not named as one of the brothers who mocked Jesus, we know that he believed his half brother was the Messiah after the resurrection because he became a pillar of the Jerusalem church and wrote the book of James.

Mary and Joseph, knew, of course the truth. While we have no record of Joseph beyond the 12th birthday when Jesus may have gone to Jerusalem with his family for his bar mitzvah, Joseph still understood because the angel had told him to accept the marriage with the pregnant virgin. Mary knew who Jesus was when he told the servants to do what ever Jesus said at the marriage ceremony in Cana.

Even though Mary knew, Jesus was making a point to the crowd: being in the family of God means doing the will of God.

Jesus was not only God, but also fully man. People can't relate to God but they can relate to a person, and there was a human element to Jesus that the people who knew Him best would be most familiar with. At times He would laugh, at times he would cry; He had his own quirks and personality, as well as likes and dislikes. He was human in every way. And it wasn't just His family...in fact the Bible tells us that the people of his very own town didn't believe him. Nothing stood out about Jesus. Just by looking at Him there was absolutely nothing at all to make one think that He was anything special. And though He was without sin, the people who knew Him best were closest to the human part of Him.

I think we have so many assumptions we've thought about the life of Christ....things we've assumed without basing it on scritpure.

Some wonder wouldn't Jesus and his brothers and sisters known he was the Messiah the Son of God growing up as a child? I don't think Mary would have kept it a secret with her children later born that Jesus was conceived with her being a virgin. But then again it is possible that she didn't. How many parents keep it a secret today that say a child is adopted? And by openly talking about how Jesus was conceived people would have thought she was crazy. And we assume Jesus went around openly declaring he was God or the Son of God. He did but at the appointed time. Even in Jesus ministry he told Peter and his closest disciples not to tell who he was. Matt 16:20 Jesus immediate family his brothers and kin probably viewed Jesus as a good brother but very strong in his relationship with God perhaps too extreme.

As some say today they probably thought he was so heavenly minded he was no earthly good. Of course he was earthly good as well BUT for one not as close to God they can falsely judge one as not showing balance. When Jesus said to them "For you anytime is right" John 7:6 it seems to indicate their attention was too much in worldly things and perhaps even Mary was influenced and struggling on just what proper balance Jesus should have. Was he being too extreme? When Jesus said "Who is my mother and brother?" it seemed to be saying the ones strongest and the greatest thirst for God would have been already in the meeting he was conducting. His mother and brothers were on the outside. I don't think it means they didn't become saved, and I think we know Mary was and was James the brother of the Lord. But what about all the others. Jesus stated to them at least at one point, "The world cannot hate you, but it hates Me because I testify of it that its works are evil." John 7: 7 But did they stay in this way? God didn't see the need to reveal anything more about them so I guess we'll never know.

Carl Emerson said:

46While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. 47Someone said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You.” 48But Jesus answered the one who was telling Him and said, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” 49And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, “Behold My mother and My brothers! 50“For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother.”

It puzzles me that with all the first hand knowledge of Jesus wisdom and divine powers, that His own family seemed to relate from a distance. This includes Mary who had deep revelation about who He really was.

I assume He had the lifestyle of an itinerant rabbi and was always on the move - staying in homes of his followers.

Verse 50 even implies that His family were out of God's will.

This is a puzzle to me - there is little mention of them being among His followers.

Had unbelief crept in among His family members?

Your thoughts very much appreciated.

Click to expand...

I'm reminded of the question "Lord, who is my neighbor?" when Jesus told them to love their neighbor as themselves. Which was the neighbor to the man? So which is the brother, sister, or mother?

I'm also reminded that Jesus sees familial relationships as a spiritual thing -- for example, in John 8 when he told the Jews that their "father" was Satan. Those who have the same faith in the gospel are the sons of Abraham, and therefore brothers, sisters in Christ. Since God is not a respecter of persons, would one brother be more important than another... or one mother be more important than another? No, Jesus biological mother was no more important than any other mother He was ministering to, but what is paramount is obeying the will of the Father.

I'm reminded of when Jesus told Peter "get behind me Satan" when 5 verses prior He told Peter that upon that rock He'd build the church. It seems Jesus' ways, purposes, and actions held to a higher than human standard. He did the will of the Father and anything that tried to take him away from that was not of God... be it Peter or his own biological mother. But it always seemed he called out the spirit behind it ... He didn't, for example, say "get behind me Peter."

Carl Emerson said:

46While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. 47Someone said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You.” 48But Jesus answered the one who was telling Him and said, “Who is My mother and who are My brothers?” 49And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, “Behold My mother and My brothers! 50“For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother.”

It puzzles me that with all the first hand knowledge of Jesus wisdom and divine powers, that His own family seemed to relate from a distance. This includes Mary who had deep revelation about who He really was.

I assume He had the lifestyle of an itinerant rabbi and was always on the move - staying in homes of his followers.

Verse 50 even implies that His family were out of God's will.

This is a puzzle to me - there is little mention of them being among His followers.

Had unbelief crept in among His family members?

Your thoughts very much appreciated.

Click to expand...

Christ was teaching a fundamental for His Spiritual Sisters and Brothers.

Radagast said:

There is a common belief that Joseph was a widower and that Mary was his second wife. This is because Joseph just vanishes from the story without a trace. He just doesn't seem to be around when Jesus is an adult. The obvious explanation is that he is dead by then, which suggests someone older than Mary. That view has influenced artwork like this:

There is also a question of family dynamics. It seems that John was a (younger) cousin of Jesus (if you compare the names of women at the cross, his mother was probably Mary's sister). John seems to have had great respect for Jesus from the very start.

But with older half-brothers of Jesus, it is perhaps more likely that we might have some behaviour like the sons of Jacob ("who is this boy that thinks he's so special?").

Of course, it's still possible that some of Jesus' brothers (James and Jude, perhaps) were among the 12 disciples.

Click to expand...

Very interesting. Don't know if I agree with it but I can see how the thought developed. I have always Joseph was dead by then, but still remains the issue that no other children are noted when the family fled (unless they were living with other family members)

coffee4u said:

but still remains the issue that no other children are noted when the family fled (unless they were living with other family members)

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They could have been old enough to have left home.

I'm not 100% agreed on the "old Joseph" theory myself, but it does seem the best guess as to what happened to Joseph.

Radagast said:

They could have been old enough to have left home.

I'm not 100% agreed on the "old Joseph" theory myself, but it does seem the best guess as to what happened to Joseph.

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That would have made Joseph an old man vs Mary's youth. kind of an unpalatable thought but I know that went on.

coffee4u said:

That would have made Joseph an old man vs Mary's youth. kind of an unpalatable thought but I know that went on.

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Extremely common back then, I would have thought.

Certainly there are a whole lot of interesting aspects to the story that we are not told.

... and we are not told them, of course, because they are not important.

Carl Emerson said:

Even though Mary was spoken to direct by an angel concerning her son?

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I think it's all too easy for people as time goes on to doubt themselves, doubt their own experiences or perhaps think they were mistaken. I think it's the human condition, the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. Like the Israelites in the wilderness, people need constant miracles.