Was the Sabbath given to man at creation as a special day to worship God?

Studyman · May 8, 2020

YouAreAwesome said:
You need to stop being mean and painting your opponents in the wrong light. It doesn't help your case. All posters in this thread agree the bible can be trusted.

I'm not sure I agree with your judgment here. I wasn't mean to you, nor did I paint you in the wrong light. Neither God's Laws, nor the Law and Prophets have been "switched off". In my view anyone who would preach such a thing doesn't believe much of the Bible. From your posts, it doesn't appear that you believe Jesus Switched off His Father's Instructions. I'm not sure why you are being so mean ;>)

Of course. There are only two groups: Israel, and gentiles. Even Adam was a gentile if we want to keep to definitions because Adam was not Jacob's descendant. We could talk spiritual Israel but that is a different discussion.

I think you are missing the point, and not really addressing my post. I'm not sure why, but that's OK. I enjoy the discussion anyway.

It's a good question. Why isn't the whole world christian?

You are the one teaching Noah's natural conscience caused him to be a just man in God's Eyes. This is why I asked you the question if his natural conscience caused him to be just, why were the other humans, who also had a natural conscience, rejected, in your view.

If God Gave HIS Judgments to all men, as HE does now, and Noah was one of the few who strove to enter this narrow path, then that would make sense and align with the scriptures. But you have an alternative understanding, so I was curious what caused you to believe otherwise.

It's OK if you don't want to answer.

Thanks for the reply anyway.

Studyman · May 8, 2020

Cribstyl said:
Those who quote that text don't get the fact that Jesus is talking about not changing what's written in the books of the law (Genesis through Deuteronomy). but you're talking about not changing the ten commandments.
Moses said that God would raise up a prophet like himself and everyone would listen to Him.

Actually Jesus Specifically stated HE didn't come to destroy the "LAW and Prophets".

That would include Genesis through Malachi. I respectfully disagree with your statement here. And yes, Moses told us a Prophet like him would come, and God's People will listen to HIM. This is why I know the Law and Prophets are not "switched off", because the Christ said "after those days" HE would write His Laws on our minds, and then, knowing there would be more and more deceivers, and declared "Think not that I came to destroy the Law and Prophets".

Those text does not say the law is turned on under the New Covenant.
Jesus said;

Luk 16:16

The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

When was the Law and Prophets switched off?

In all due respect, I don't think you are properly discerning this verse from Jesus. Please allow me to add more scriptures so we can more completely understand the message Jesus is portraying her.

Luke 16: 13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.

15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

On this agrees the entire Law and Prophets.

Andre_b · May 8, 2020

YouAreAwesome said:
We can find what John meant by “The commandments of God” in his first and second letters:

1 John 3:23 “And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.”

1 John 4:21 “And this is the commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.

1 John 5:1-5 Faith in Jesus overcomes the world and fulfils the commandments.

2 John 1:5 “... not as though I were writing you a new commandment, but the one we have had from the beginning—that we love one another.”

The commandments of God are to believe in Jesus and love one another.

The command to love one another is the last 6 of the 10. It is very clear.

Romans 13:9 “For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” pretty clear it's the last of the 10. Just like he repeats in 2 John 1:5

So according to you a man loves another man so I suppose we can get married then. Jesus only says to love one another. I love everyone so I guess i can marry them all?

Also John is specifically saying that they are not NEW commandments.
2 John 1:5 “... not as though I were writing you a new commandment, but the one we have had from the beginning—that we love one another.” It's always been there from the beginning. Last 6 commandments and faith in Jesus.

pasifika · May 8, 2020

Andre_b said:
The command to love one another is the last 6 of the 10. It is very clear.

Romans 13:9 “For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” pretty clear it's the last of the 10.

So according to you a man loves another man so I suppose we can get married then. Jesus only says to love one another. I love everyone so I guess i can marry them all?

Also John is specifically saying that they are not NEW commandments.
2 John 1:5 “... not as though I were writing you a new
commandment, but the one we have had from the beginning—that we love one another.” It's always been there from the beginning. Last 6 commandments and faith in Jesus.

Hello, you keep reading and see why is John called an old command a New command...1John 2:7,8...This old command is the message you have heard. Yet I am writing you a new command; its truth is seen in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing and the true light is already shining...

The truth of how to live the command is seen in Him (Jesus), So the truth of living this command was only seen in Jesus and it will also be seen in you..so it wasn’t seen in anyone other than Him first...

Andre_b · May 8, 2020

pasifika said:
Hello, you keep reading and see why is John called an old command a New command...1John 2:7,8...This old command is the message you have heard. Yet I am writing you a new command; its truth is seen in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing and the true light is already shining...

The truth of how to live the command is seen in Him (Jesus), So the truth of living this command was only seen in Jesus and it will also be seen in you..so it wasn’t seen in anyone other than Him first...

Sorry you are making up your own theology. Jesus showed us HOW to live, that's the command to live the way he did by following God's commandment and Jesus is now the high priest for if we break the 10.

Why did you ignore this in your response, PAUL is quoting the 10 commandments directly yet you ignore this: Romans 13:9 “For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” pretty clear it's the last of the 10.

1 John 2:7"Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. It's the word, the word is Jesus, which was heard from the beginning. Jesus was with the father from the beginning. It's nothing new the 10 have always been there and spoken directly to man.

1 John 2:8 "Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth."

He's still telling us to look for Jesus for the light. Jesus said he was the truth and the life and that the word shineth in the dark. It's a commandment to look at Jesus for the truth and the way to live that's it, not some twisting of a new commandment replacing the ten. It says NEW not REPLACE or destroy the old etc.. the previous verse specifically says that the OLD is still there since the beginning and that he's not giving a new one to replace it.

pasifika · May 8, 2020

Andre_b said:
Sorry you are making up your own theology. Jesus showed us HOW to live, that's the command to live the way he did by following God's commandment and Jesus is now the high priest for if we break the 10.

Why did you ignore this in your response, PAUL is quoting the 10 commandments directly yet you ignore this: Romans 13:9 “For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” pretty clear it's the last of the 10.

So how can you explain why John called an old command a new one? Yes Jesus show us how to live but we are Not Jesus to start with and in order to live like Him is through His Spirit. Without His Spirit in us we cannot live of follow His way...Can we get the Spirit on our own? No....

Romans 13:9...Paul is giving the command that fulfilled all other commands in the law...if we love others then it shows that Gods lives in us...1John is all about Gods love as a result of believing in Him through the message of Faith...

Cribstyl · May 8, 2020

Studyman said:
Wow, I ask questions because in the same Bible we are speaking about, there is instruction to test doctrines. This instruction is there because God knows there are "other religious voices" in the garden so to speak. He knows, because HE introduced these other voices to give me the choice HE speaks of in Duet. 30.

If those other voices are saying don't trust God's word, then you should know where it's coming from.

I use the Holy Scriptures to do this because they are the only voice that can be trusted, at least according to the Holy men of the Bible.

Those other voices also use the Holy Scriptures too.

Is. 8:To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

2 Tim. 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

"All you're doing is talking about the law where God's word is not."

God's Laws and Commandments are mentioned in the NT alone, over 240 times. "242" in the KJV. "242"!!!!

So this is a perfect example of why I believe God instructed me to always check out the religious voice to make sure they are telling HIS truth, and not theirs.

"When we post scriptures saying; We're not under the law, you take offense and say that we're saying "don't trust God's word"."

I am not aware that I did this. It would be very beneficial to a Brother if when you made accusations against them, you would provide some evidence of this accusation.
In the post you are replying to, I explain in detail why I believe there are religious men who do not trust the Bible as a whole. Please identify the part of my explanation you feel is unjust.

My understanding is that being "under the Law" of God means being dead because I rebelled against it. It seems Jesus took away the death I owed for rebelling against the Word's, and Instructions of my Creator. Having these sins removed, I am a sinless man. A New Creation in Christ. I can now, in repentance, turn from my rebellious ways, and Submit myself to Him and HIS WORDS, which HE says are Spirit and Life.

But if I return to following my own, or other religious voices, as I did before repentance, do i not bring myself back "under the Law"?

Rom. 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

15 What then? shall we sin, ( transgress God's Laws) because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. )I think this means NO!)

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin (Transgression) unto death, or of obedience (to what?) unto righteousness?

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

18 Being then made free from sin, (Not the Law as many preach) ye became the servants of righteousness.

"You don't directly respond to what we post. So you're not proving anything. When we respond to what you post you asks more questions unrelated to our response or the scriptures you first posted."

Again, It would be helpful if you would provide evidence of this. I believe I have answered every question asked of me. I can't say the same for others.

I noticed you are a self proclaimed "Pentecostal". Why are you not a Catholic? They have been around a long time. They claim to be God's Universal Church. They also claim belief in the Scriptures. Why do you not participate or contribute to the Catholic Church? Look at all the good they do, all the poor people and widows they help. Hospitals, schools, they come in Christ's Name, same as you. They preach Jesus is truly the Christ, same as you.

So why aren't you part of this Great Christian Church?

Dude, we just don't agree, but I'm not going to misrepresent your words as "telling you not to trust God's word".

Why are you not a Jehovah Witness? That statement should feel like a personal attack to those who are not JW. That's so immature and disrespectful. I'm actually nondenom as you claim. I chose Pentecostal (for chat room access 10yrs ago, because I see little difference.)
..................................................
Here's the rub.... My first interaction with you was concerning Acts 15.
You had said; And don’t let them bully you on Acts 15.

They ignore that the Pharisees were not teaching the Law of Moses. They were teaching for doctrines the Commandments of men and calling it the Law of Moses. Peter knew this, but they do not.

My response to your post was Monday at 7:13 PM#312

Really? The law of Moses says "You must be circumcised and keep the law." What you're talking about is NOT written in Acts 15. Where does Paul say that Pharisees was not teaching the law of Moses? That's added commentary to confuse the facts that the Apostles did not send them to teach the law.

Act 15:24 For as much as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
(I was waiting to examine your scripture in response to my question Where does Paul say that Pharisee was not teaching the law of Moses.
Your response was;

What Law? You are preaching the they were teaching Gods law. But the entire Bible teaches they were not.

Paul says he believes the law and prophets. But he didn’t believe in the Pharisees religion.

so why are you supporting the Pharisees religion and not the Christ’s

Studyman, not only did you not answer my question, you got personal and accused me of supporting the Pharisees religion and not Christ's. In my response to you I answered your question (What law?)

Cribs response post (Tuesday at 6:34 AM#324)
What's highligted in pink above are false statements. You're confusing what's written by Luke in Acts 15. What law? Answer: The Mosaic Law given at Sinai.
We're interpreting what Act 15 is saying.
Act 15:1¶And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

Did we say anything about what Pharisees taught? These men were Jewish converts that kept the law. They were circumcised. Maybe they meant well but they were not sent.

................................................................................. End of Rewind
Studyman, in my opinion, you have not been reasonable or respectful. If you cant post where someone said not to trust God's word, you lied. I have not expanded our dialog beyond Acts 15, but you have. I always post the bible in blue, to settle what God's word say on any question. You've expanded the conversation from what it was to your insults.

Sorry for the long post. (i hate long posts)
I'm taking a break from all this fun.

Andre_b · May 8, 2020

pasifika said:
So how can you explain why John called an old command a new one? Yes Jesus show us how to live but we are Not Jesus to start with and in order to live like Him is through His Spirit. Without His Spirit in us we cannot live of follow His way...Can we get the Spirit on our own? No....

Romans 13:9...Paul is giving the command that fulfilled all other commands in the law...if we love others then it shows that Gods lives in us...1John is all about Gods love as a result of believing in Him through the message of Faith...

It's amazing how you separate God's love and the commandments. There are the same thing. The definition of love is the commandments. That's the point. Living with the Holy Spirit is exactly that, to fulfill the commandments and the Holy Spirit will guide you and help you. You are just throwing the word love, without its proper definition. I never said we were Jesus, I said he showed us an example how to live by obeying God's commandments, which is what true love is they are hand in hand, that's what fulfilling is take action and do it. Like Jesus said he came to fulfill the law and the prophets. Since the prophets are fufilled then Revelation is no longer needed. Tell me why would he quote the commandments if they weren't useful to know what love is? He would have simply said love Jesus, period.

Loving your neighbor as yourself is actually an old testament saying as well, it is simply the last 6 commandments.

Studyman · May 8, 2020

pasifika said:
Hello, Heathens are people, nations etc who doesn’t believe or worship the God of Israel...
The reason I quote Ezekiel 36:24, is to show why other perish and others Not in Sinai...is the Spirit of God that causes people to follow His ways...
This are Israelites people of God...there is only one people and they are Israel (spiritual people)..

Zachariah is a righteous man, just like Abel, Noah, Abraham or whoever believes in God through Christ...was Zechariah one of those people? You mean an Israelite? Yes, there is only 1 people..

why was Noah saved? Because Noah knows God and God knew Him. believing in God through good news about Christ, how do I know this? Because the bible says that Noah is a righteous man...and righteous are those who live their lives according to their faith, and faith comes from the knowledge of Christ...Romans 10
So how can Noah know God while God lives in heaven? Isn’t through the Spirit of God..

Did all man know how to live just...of course yes? So why they didn’t live like Noah...because the Spirit of Christ is Not in them...

Why didn't the Spirit of Christ come into those other men? Noah sinned, they sinned. Why did God give one sinner HIS Spirit so he can become Just, and live, but withheld HIS Spirit from the thousands of other sinners to keep them from becoming Just? Did Noah have anything to do with the reason God gave Him His Spirit, but not the others?

1John 3...those who are born of God will Not continue to Sin because Gods seed remains in them....were they sin before yes of course, but they grow mature in their understanding and turn away from their evil...
So, everyone will know how to do good, but Not everyone will be able to continually doing good unless Christ live in them...

I agree that the Spirit of Christ must abide in man to be born again. That is why I listen to Jesus.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

why do we need saved? Because we are sinners therefore we are slave to sin, and if we are sinners then death is our reward..God didn’t create us to be slave to someone else but to belong to Him alone..
Can we live a sinless life apart from Jesus? No! Absolutely Not...that why Jesus came...sin is stronger, and more powerful then man so when Adam disobey God and Sin enter our world, then there is No Hope for Adam and his descendants...Unless someone more powerful then sin comes to rescue mankind...

so what God gave to Adam after the fall is about the message of the Saviour to come, the good news for mankind Genesis 3:15...

So instead of giving the law God gave them Hope through the coming of the saviour...as Paul says that through this Hope purified our hearts just as he is pure...that means cleansing of our conscience...so we can know our God...

How can a man live a sinless life if we don't know what sin is? And how can we trust anyone but the Creator to define sin for us? It seems You are saying that God replaced giving HIS Instructions which define sin, that HIS Word said was "Made for the Sinner", and replaced the definition of sin with "Hope".

I have heard of this religious teaching many times. That Jesus came, not just to take away our sins, but to take away the Law which defines sin as well. This sounds very good, and I can see why a person would want to follow such a religion.

But Jesus said;

34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

He said that "MANY" would call HIM Lord, Lord, in that day, but that He doesn't know them. It seems they had "hope", but they still missed an important ingredient to being accepted by HIM.

"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." This word is defined in the Greek as "Lawlessness". Those examples of faith shown throughout the Bible chose a different path, as it is written;

Rev. 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

So it seems to me HE is saying we do "wait in Hope" for HIS Salvation, but if we yield our self to obey another voice besides HIS, then HE doesn't even know us, even though we might spend our life convinced that HE does.

The law doesn’t changed our evil ways, because our evil ways comes from the sin who lives in us...even we know the good to do we are guaranteed to do the opposite...see Romans...
So why was the law given anyway? So people can know the enemy “sin” (seed of devil)..

Yes, Paul said we are to "strive against sin", and that this is not so easy. But in the same Romans you mentioned Paul tells us who saves him from this body of death.

Here is the question.

Rom. 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Here is the answer to the question.

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. (Law of Sin is death)

This is why I listen to Jesus.

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

And Again;

Matt. 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

And Paul is also on the same page.

Rom. 2:13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Faith made complete by our actions, our actions as the result of God working in us on the basis of our knowledge of God...
Different from the works of the law...because that works comes from you alone apart from God’s works in you..Philippians 3:8-11, also see how the Sinai covenant was instituted ie who gives and who works...

Yes, I agree. The Covenant God made with Levi for the cleansing and forgiveness of sins was a temporary Law "ADDED" til the Seed should Come.. Before Paul's conversion this is how a man was cleansed of sins and made righteous. If a man sinned, he was to take a "sin offering" to the Levite Priest only, and this priest would perform sacrificial "works of the Law" for this sin to removed. The mainstream preachers of his time were still preaching to others that they must still perform these "works of the Law" to be forgiven their sins. Paul is telling them, "No flesh is justified by the "Works of the Law". There are "many" religious men who teach that Paul is referring to God's Judgments, Statutes, and Commandments. But this is untrue if the Bible is our source.

Moses never said "If you sin, go keep God's Commandments and your sins are forgiven". He said if you sin, go find a Levite Priest to perform "Works of the Law" for forgiveness. This is what changed in the promised New Covenant in Jer 31, as the text shows.

Matthew 7:22...is what those who profess to know God without actions to uphold that claim...

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

They had plenty of actions, and they claimed is was all to the credit of the Christ. How can you say they didn't have actions? Please tell me how you can read this verse and say they didn't have actions.

verse 23...those that works iniquity...
Not about law is about faith without the actions that must accompany that faith...

Jesus said they were rejected because even though they called HIM Lord, Lord, and gav HIM the credit for all their actions, they refused to walk in lawfulness. This is how we know if we are on the right path or not, Yes? If we live in obedience to HIM, then we are his. If we call Him Lord, Lord, but walk contrary to HIS Laws, then we are not HIS.

Isn't this what Jesus is saying here? Isn't this the same thing the Christ said throughout His Gospel, from HIS Gospel message to Cain, to Rev. 14:12? It's the same message. Paul says it best in my view.

Acts 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should (ALL) repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

What does it mean to "turn to God"? Does it mean to "deny ourselves, our religious traditions, our lifestyle, our judgement and our righteousness, and turn to HIS?

1John2..if you referring to the commands then John mention the commandments...to believe in the name of His Son, and to love others...if you look at those commandments the first one is to believe in Jesus, that is from the good news from Genesis, and the second is our love or is the results of our belief that we shows to others that is our actions...so we can put this in one sentence which is Faith express through Love...

Absolutely. But God's Love, not ours.

1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

try to answer as honest as I can. Let me know if I miss one..so we can share..thanks, sorry about the grammar...

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Me too, it is good to share our understanding and compare them to "Every Word that Proceeds from the Mouth of God". This is how Jesus endured the deception of HIS Time, and we can trust HIM and HIS instructions to endure though our evil times as well.

Thanks to you as well.

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pasifika · May 8, 2020

Andre_b said:
It's amazing how you separate God's love and the commandments. There are the same thing. The definition of love is the commandments. That's the point. Living with the Holy Spirit is exactly that, to fulfill the commandments and the Holy Spirit will guide you and help you. You are just throwing the word love, without its proper definition. I never said we were Jesus, I said he showed us an example how to live by obeying God's commandments, which is what true love is they are hand in hand, that's what fulfilling is take action and do it. Like Jesus said he came to fulfill the law and the prophets. Since the prophets are fufilled then Revelation is no longer needed. Tell me why would he quote the commandments if they weren't useful to know what love is? He would have simply said love Jesus, period.

Loving your neighbor as yourself is actually an old testament saying as well, it is simply the last 6 commandments.

Do you know there are people who claim to follow God, without God even knowing them..and also people who follow God because God knows them...So yes there is a different the new command is new because the truth is seen or Real love is seen from Him who is in you...
let me tell you, No ONE can follow or keep His commandments UNLESS He lives and work through You...and is Not about us choosing to follow But Him choosing Us to follow Him...
All commandments are uphold by the commandment of Love...because Gods Love is in Jesus Christ and He is the truth which seen by people of Gods Love..He is the Love of God given to us...so was Jesus born in Sinai? No...so the commandment of Love was manifested when Christ was revealed...this is how love for God and others really mean by looking at His life....And we can also love God and others when He come and live in us....

pasifika · May 8, 2020

Studyman said:
Why didn't the Spirit of Christ come into those other men? Noah sinned, they sinned. Why did God give one sinner HIS Spirit so he can become Just, and live, but withheld HIS Spirit from the thousands of other sinners to keep them from becoming Just? Did Noah have anything to do with the reason God gave Him His Spirit, but not the others?

I agree that the Spirit of Christ must abide in man to be born again. That is why I listen to Jesus.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

How can a man live a sinless life if we don't know what sin is? And how can we trust anyone but the Creator to define sin for us? It seems You are saying that God replaced giving HIS Instructions which define sin, that HIS Word said was "Made for the Sinner", and replaced the definition of sin with "Hope".

I have heard of this religious teaching many times. That Jesus came, not just to take away our sins, but to take away the Law which defines sin as well. This sounds very good, and I can see why a person would want to follow such a religion.

But Jesus said;

34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

He said that "MANY" would call HIM Lord, Lord, in that day, but that He doesn't know them. It seems they had "hope", but they still missed an important ingredient to being accepted by HIM.

"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." This word is defined in the Greek as "Lawlessness". Those examples of faith shown throughout the Bible chose a different path, as it is written;

Rev. 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

So it seems to me HE is saying we do "wait in Hope" for HIS Salvation, but if we yield our self to obey another voice besides HIS, then HE doesn't even know us, even though we might spend our life convinced that HE does.

God gives His Spirit to whoever He desired to give, it His choice...were all people sinned? Yes apart from Jesus...

How can a man live a sinless life if we do Not know what sin is?
What can you get out from knowing sin if we are sinners? Can you still live? Can you take it away that sin or you think you can...The bible state that we all broke the law right...then the law show us the power of Sin...if we couldn't follow the law then also we couldn't stand it power that made us his slaves....ONLY GOD CAN STAND ITS POWER...Him becoming a man tells us we cannot save ourselves from Sin...

I didnt replace the definition of Sin to Hope...how can we have hope on something that puts us to death?
Our hope comes from the good news of our Saviour which had proclaimed by God to fallen man since the beginning...in this hope we stand...
We have this hope is because we know who we put our hopes on...

YouAreAwesome · May 8, 2020

Studyman said:
You are the one teaching Noah's natural conscience caused him to be a just man in God's Eyes.

Not just having a conscience, remaining with a clear conscience. Just as Jesus looked on Nathaniel and said He has no guile in him. The "law" for those without another law is their conscience.

Studyman said:
From your posts, it doesn't appear that you believe Jesus Switched off His Father's Instructions. I'm not sure why you are being so mean ;>)

I agree that the Mosaic Law is only in effect for those under the covenant that includes it. But when Jesus ended that covenant to begin a new one, the old one is no longer in force. Calling it switched off is a good description.

YouAreAwesome · May 8, 2020

Andre_b said:
The command to love one another is the last 6 of the 10. It is very clear.

Romans 13:9 “For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” pretty clear it's the last of the 10. Just like he repeats in 2 John 1:5

But do you love someone by not doing things? That is only superficial love right? Love is shown through our positive actions and attitude and heart, things the Ten Commandments are powerless to achieve. It's like if I say to my wife, don't be messy, don't hit me, don't divorce me, don't cheat, and if you keep these things we'll be in love. No!! NOT doing things wrong is NOT love! Love causes positive action of creative spontaneity. Hence the Spirit and the better covenant of love.

BobRyan · May 8, 2020

Cbowles said:
I

Genesis 26:5 Genesis 2:1-3 Show that yes they did, and so did Abraham. However mankind was not instructed to keep the Sabbath til Moses, in my humble opinion.

There is Gen 2:1-3 and Ex 20:11 both pointing to Creation as the time when the Sabbath was made holy/sanctified binding

"For in six days... therefore the Lord blessed... and made it holy" Ex 20:11

Ex 20
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Gen 2
2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Sanctified - set apart for holy use.

Gen 7 and 8 we see distinction between clean and unclean animals not explained "to the reader" until Leviticus 11.

Gen 4 "sin is crouching at your door" -- where the law regarding murder is not explained to the reader until Genesis 9 or Ex 20 etc.

Gen 26:5 Commandments, laws, statutes existed Gen 26:5 that are not explained to the reader until later.

BobRyan · May 8, 2020

YouAreAwesome said:
But do you love someone by not doing things? That is only superficial love right? Love is shown through our positive actions and attitude and heart, things the Ten Commandments are powerless to achieve. It's like if I say to my wife, don't be messy, don't hit me, don't divorce me, don't cheat, and if you keep these things we'll be in love. No!! NOT doing things wrong is NOT love! Love causes positive action of creative spontaneity. Hence the Spirit and the better covenant of love.

"This IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3
"IF you Love Me - KEEP My commandments" John 14:!5
"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
"The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

Parable:
There was a church pic nic and the parents setup small chairs for their little children under a tree - they all said "sit right here and I will be back with a plate of food for you" -- the parents left - all the children ran back out onto the playground and into a nearby woods to play tag. Except for two.

Two children remained in their chairs. "Do you not want to go and play with your friends?" they were asked -- "Yes we do" they answered. "And why don't you go and play?" -- "Because my parents told me to stay here and I love my parents" was the answer.

All the children had love for their parents - but a few understood the value that obedience had and the happiness they could give their parents -- as their parents were working to give good things to them.

Broken Fence · May 8, 2020

YouAreAwesome said:
Genesis 2:1-3 says God rested, not Adam and Eve. Neither was any instruction given.

Genesis 26:5 is best translated in the NIV:

"because Abraham obeyed me and did everything I required of him, keeping my commands, my decrees and my instructions.”

If you're like me, you see "commands, decrees and my instructions" and jump straight to the Mosaic Law. But the Mosaic Law didn't exist. So there are few different ways to approach this. First, if we look at the Hebrew we find that this verse could be talking about how Abraham listened to God and did all that was asked of Him (see post #154 for further details on the translation). Second, it could be referring to the seven laws of Noah that do not include a Sabbath command for anyone, including Abraham. Either way, no Sabbath is kept by anyone before Moses in the Bible.

The thing that gets me about Sabbath is seventh day blessed no mention again til unleavened bread, then seventh day and unleavened bread come together in Torah, the heart of Yeshua. Also no Sabbath in Job only found in one book of wisdom books. So what is the wisdom showing us?

klutedavid · May 8, 2020

BobRyan said:
"This IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3
"IF you Love Me - KEEP My commandments" John 14:!5
"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
"The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

Parable:
There was a church pic nic and the parents setup small chairs for their little children under a tree - they all said "sit right here and I will be back with a plate of food for you" -- the parents left - all the children ran back out onto the playground and into a nearby woods to play tag. Except for two.

Two children remained in their chairs. "Do you not want to go and play with your friends?" they were asked -- "Yes we do" they answered. "And why don't you go and play?" -- "Because my parents told me to stay here and I love my parents" was the answer.

All the children had love for their parents - but a few understood the value that obedience had and the happiness they could give their parents -- as their parents were working to give good things to them.

Just cleaning up after you Bob.

1 John 2:3
By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.

1 John 2:4
The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him.

I know your impressed.

When you quote from 1 John just keep reading and bingo, John tells you the commandments that Jesus gave.

klutedavid · May 8, 2020

Andre_b said:
The command to love one another is the last 6 of the 10. It is very clear.

You seem to be saying that if you don't covet your neighbors oxen. Then how great is your love for that neighbor. I am struggling to make sense of your posts. What has coveting oxen got to do with considering others before yourself?

Romans 13:9 “For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” pretty clear it's the last of the 10. Just like he repeats in 2 John 1:5

Love your neighbor as you love yourself, well that's called conditional love.

Your not happy with yourself and far from loving yourself today. So obviously your self love is lacking so apply that low love of self to others. Let's see how they like how I am feeling about myself today. That's what the law says to do. That is the commandment of old.

Compare that grouchy, conditional love, with Christ's love, the divine, unconditional love.

John 13:34
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

Love others as Christ has loved you!

Unconditional love towards others and that is the new commandment. The old commandment to love has been replaced by the new divine commandment.

BobRyan · May 8, 2020

YouAreAwesome said:
But do you love someone by not doing things? That is only superficial love right? Love is shown through our positive actions and attitude and heart, things the Ten Commandments are powerless to achieve. It's like if I say to my wife, don't be messy, don't hit me, don't divorce me, don't cheat, and if you keep these things we'll be in love. No!! NOT doing things wrong is NOT love! Love causes positive action of creative spontaneity. Hence the Spirit and the better covenant of love.

"This IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3
"IF you Love Me - KEEP My commandments" John 14:!5
"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
"The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19

Parable:
There was a church pic nic and the parents setup small chairs for their little children under a tree - they all said "sit right here and I will be back with a plate of food for you" -- the parents left - all the children ran back out onto the playground and into a nearby woods to play tag. Except for two.

Two children remained in their chairs. "Do you not want to go and play with your friends?" they were asked -- "Yes we do" they answered. "And why don't you go and play?" -- "Because my parents told me to stay here and I love my parents" was the answer.

All the children had love for their parents - but a few understood the value that obedience had and the happiness they could give their parents -- as their parents were working to give good things to them.

klutedavid said:
Just cleaning up after you Bob.

1 John 2:3
By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.

What part of 1 John 5:2-3 needs to be "cleaned up"??
What part of 1 John 5:2-3 is 1 John 2:3?

The Commandments of God: you know... the ones - where "the first commandment with a promise" is the 5th Commandment according to Eph 6:2... yep... that would have to include "the TEN" for that to be true.

I think we all knew that.

Happy to "clean that up".

BobRyan · May 8, 2020

Andre_b said:
The command to love one another is the last 6 of the 10. It is very clear.

Romans 13:9 “For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” pretty clear it's the last of the 10. Just like he repeats in 2 John 1:5

So according to you a man loves another man so I suppose we can get married then. Jesus only says to love one another. I love everyone so I guess i can marry them all?

Also John is specifically saying that they are not NEW commandments.
2 John 1:5 “... not as though I were writing you a new commandment, but the one we have had from the beginning—that we love one another.” It's always been there from the beginning. Last 6 commandments and faith in Jesus.

Yep.

In fact the Commandments of God include the TEN where "the first commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment... according to Ephesians 6:1-2.

Was the Sabbath given to man at creation as a special day to worship God?

Did Adam and Eve keep each seventh-day Sabbath?

Yes

No

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