Judge Not: False Doctrine

HARK! · May 7, 2020

(CLV) Mt 7:1
"Do not judge, lest you may be judged,

So many read that verse and stop short; to say that we should exercise judgement, concerning the wicked. That we should just turn a blind eye to wickedness and go off into a day dream singing, "la la la - la la." "I have no responsibility to see the world for what it is." "There is no wrong; there is no right in my eyes. It's all on the Father's hands"

The very next verse:

(CLV) Mt 7:2
for with what judgment you are judging, shall you be judged, and with what measure you are measuring, shall it be measured to you.

YHWH calls us to righteous judgement. This falls in line with what is mentioned just a few verses later:

(CLV) Mt 7:12
All, then, whatever you should be wanting that men should be doing to you, thus you, also, be doing to them, for this is the law and the prophets.

Yahshua doesn't contradict himself.

(CLV) Jn 7:24
Be not judging by the countenance, but be judging just judging."

Again he tells us to judge justly.

(CLV) 1Co 6:3
Are you not aware that we shall be judging messengers, not to mention life's affairs?

Sabertooth · May 7, 2020

We are supposed to assess, but not condemn. Since we will be judged by our own standards, we want to be sure to include the offer of grace.

HARK! · May 7, 2020

Sabertooth said:
We are supposed to assess, but not condemn. Since we will be judged by our own standards, we want to be sure to include the offer of grace.

We are to judge by the Father's standards. This includes grace.

The Father doesn't want is to live with the wicked. We are to be set apart. How do we set ourselves apart without judgement?

Broken Fence · May 7, 2020

HARK! said:
(CLV) Mt 7:1
"Do not judge, lest you may be judged,

So many read that verse and stop short; to say that we should exercise judgement, concerning the wicked. That we should just turn a blind eye to wickedness and go off into a day dream singing, "la la la - la la." "I have no responsibility to see the world for what it is." "There is no wrong; there is no right in my eyes. It's all on the Father's hands"

The very next verse:

(CLV) Mt 7:2
for with what judgment you are judging, shall you be judged, and with what measure you are measuring, shall it be measured to you.

YHWH calls us to righteous judgement. This falls in line with what is mentioned just a few verses later:

(CLV) Mt 7:12
All, then, whatever you should be wanting that men should be doing to you, thus you, also, be doing to them, for this is the law and the prophets.

Yahshua doesn't contradict himself.

(CLV) Jn 7:24
Be not judging by the countenance, but be judging just judging."

Again he tells us to judge justly.

(CLV) 1Co 6:3
Are you not aware that we shall be judging messengers, not to mention life's affairs?

The judgement of God is righteous, ours is misleading. We should edify, exhort, encourage, inspire our fellow man to not break the law.

Broken Fence · May 7, 2020

HARK! said:
We are to judge by the Father's standards. This includes grace.

The Father doesn't want is to live with the wicked. We are to be set apart. How do we set ourselves apart without judgement?

We set ourselves apart by thought upon thought, precept upon precept. Romans 3:31

Sabertooth · May 7, 2020

HARK! said:
How do we set ourselves apart without judgement?

That can be accomplished with the "assessment" aspect of judgment.

Say you have a roommate who is a drug addict. You can rightfully "assess" that that is not an edifying relationship, without "condemning" him.

If you would "condemn" him, you would equally condemn yourself, because none of us are "deserving" of salvation, in the first place.

If he never turns to Jesus, he is already condemned, but that is not on you.

HARK! · May 7, 2020

Cbowles said:
The judgement of God is righteous, ours is misleading. We should edify, exhort, encourage, inspire our fellow man to not break the law.

How do you reconcile that philosophy with this scripture?

(CLV) 1Co 6:3
Are you not aware that we shall be judging messengers, not to mention life's affairs?

Broken Fence · May 7, 2020

HARK! said:
How do you reconcile that philosophy with this scripture?

(CLV) 1Co 6:3
Are you not aware that we shall be judging messengers, not to mention life's affairs?

He is referring to Angel's and the affairs of the church. Paul says avoid debates about the law. The Holy Spirit needs to sanctify believers. You help through edification.

HARK! · May 7, 2020

Cbowles said:
We set ourselves apart by thought upon thought, precept upon precept.

That sounds really vague.

How do you set yourself apart from those you are in a car with, who start talking about robbing a bank?

How about you use some judgement; and the first time they make a stop, you slip away, never to be seen by them again?

Anthony2019 · May 7, 2020

Unless we have a thorough knowledge of the circumstances of the person we are judging, then we will never know for sure whether our judgement is fair and just.
Judging others is dangerous business - foolhardy at best and self-damning at worst.
Jesus made it very clear in Matthew 7:1 - "Do not judge, or you too will be judged".

HARK! · May 7, 2020

Cbowles said:
The judgement of God is righteous, ours is misleading. We should edify, exhort, encourage, inspire our fellow man to not break the law.

...and what about when they don't want to hear your morality, and start making threats?

Do you exercise judgment; and wipe the dust from your feet; or do you continue in your persuasion until they knock you out cold?

HARK! · May 7, 2020

Sabertooth said:
That can be accomplished with the "assessment" aspect of judgment.

Say you have a roommate who is a drug addict. You can rightfully "assess" that that is not an edifying relationship, without "condemning" him.

If you would "condemn" him, you would equally condemn yourself, because none of us are "deserving" of salvation, in the first place.

I'll present the bank robber scenario again:

How do you set yourself apart from those you are in a car with, who start talking about robbing a bank?

How about you use some judgement; and the first time they make a stop, you slip away, never to be seen by them again?

Is it condemnation to wipe the dust from your feet?

Sabertooth · May 7, 2020

HARK! said:
How do you set yourself apart from those you are in a car with, who start talking about robbing a bank?

Wow! Has that happened to you? (Most people would anticipate that [or something equally bad] being a possibility [with that crowd] before they got into the car in the first place.)

Broken Fence · May 7, 2020

HARK! said:
That sounds really vague.

How do you set yourself apart from those you are in a car with, who start talking about robbing a bank?

How about you use some judgement; and the first time they make a stop, you slip away, never to be seen by them again?

Yes you are right. However you set yourself apart by studying Scripture line upon line precept upon precept. You bring every thought captive to the obedience of Christ.

HARK! · May 7, 2020

Anthony2019 said:
Unless we have a thorough knowledge of the circumstances of the person we are judging, then we will never know for sure whether our judgement is fair and just.
Judging others is dangerous business - foolhardy at best and self-damning at worst.
Jesus made it very clear in Matthew 7:1 - "Do not judge, or you too will be judged".

..and a few verses later he says this:

(CLV) Jn 7:24
Be not judging by the countenance, but be judging just judging."

This is what we a re called to. How will we judge the messengers, if we don't have the discernment to judge right from wrong in our daily lives?

Sabertooth · May 7, 2020

Sabertooth said:
(Most people would anticipate that [or something equally bad] being a possibility [with that crowd] before they got into the car in the first place.)

"A prudent man foresees evil and hides himself,
But the simple pass on and are punished." Proverbs 22:3 NKJV

Foreseeing evil is an assessment, but not a condemnation.

HARK! · May 7, 2020

Sabertooth said:
Wow! Has that happened to you?

No; and I can come up with more hypothetical examples all day long.

Sabertooth said:
(Most people would anticipate that [or something equally bad] being a possibility [with that crowd] before they got into the car in the first place.)

How would one do that? Wouldn't it require judgement to understand that it would be a mistake to get into that car to begin with? I didn't give any details about what happened before you got into the car. Would it be righteous to judge these folks before they started planning evil?

Broken Fence · May 7, 2020

HARK! said:
...and what about when they don't want to hear your morality, and start making threats?

Do you exercise judgment; and wipe the dust from your feet; or do you continue in your persuasion until they knock you out cold?

I was in a biker bar sharing the gospel with a woman at the bar. A man pulled me outside by my ponytail, and told me he was gonna kick me in the head. I said if that is the kinda man you are go ahead and kick me in the head. He said you convince me to be a Christian.

HARK! · May 7, 2020

Cbowles said:
Yes you are right. However you set yourself apart by studying Scripture line upon line precept upon precept. You bring every thought captive to the obedience on Christ.

So is it simply knowledge that sets us apart; or is there some sort of action that is a result of that knowledge?

Sabertooth · May 7, 2020

HARK! said:
Would it be righteous to judge these folks before they started planning evil?

People don't just decide to rob a bank on the the spur of the moment (unless it is their regular habit, which you would already know). Their dialogue would already be going in a similar direction long before you got into their car.

Judge Not: False Doctrine

Are we to exercise judgement?

Judge justly

Judge not

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